Detonation destroyed engine update

[f6sk]

2021 With 177k miles. Noticed the classic sound of marbles in a can signaling detonation. Replaced the spark plugs and inspected the cylinders and could not see anything.

On the test drive the detonation cut a notch in the cylinder head and block between combustion chambers. My first thoughts were a timing issue, or bad gas. But since it it localized to one cylinder I'm thinking clogged injector.

It is concerning that there is no accessible filter. (And from my understanding it is only a screen).

Fortunatley the new (used) motor came with the original injectors and 100k fewer miles.

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[RangerBill]

Did you check for any DTC codes? They might have provided a clue to why it was happening.

 

[got3fords]

Wow, that's a new one. How do you know it was isolated to one cylinder when it took out 2?

 

[Racket]

Welcome to our forum Scott. Heck of a way to introduce yourself.

 

[airline tech]

I concur with - Injector being (High Probable) root cause, but I would also take it a step further and check the wiring for Cylinder #3 and or bench test that injector.
Further evidence would be - Piston & Spark Plug (Appearance) on Cylinder #3 vs Cylinder #4

Basically try to determine (Root Cause) - Cylinder #3 (Issue) or Head Gasket.
With (replacing) engine, I would try to confirm - if injector itself or possible wiring issue, so it doesn't repeat itself
or at least - run a (Scan Tool - Relative Injector Flow Test) with the new engine
as we also have another possible and that is the (PCM - Circuit Driver - for Cyl #3)

What codes (if any) were showing on a scan?

You are looking for results close to these

 

[f6sk]

Wow, that's a new one. How do you know it was isolated to one cylinder when it took out 2?

If you zoom in on the picture you can see the white chalky dots all over the valves. The other cylinder is brown and oily like normal

 

[f6sk]

I concur with - Injector being (High Probable) root cause, but I would also take it a step further and check the wiring for Cylinder #3 and or bench test that injector.
Further evidence would be - Piston & Spark Plug (Appearance) on Cylinder #3 vs Cylinder #4

Basically try to determine (Root Cause) - Cylinder #3 (Issue) or Head Gasket.
With (replacing) engine, I would try to confirm - if injector itself or possible wiring issue, so it doesn't repeat itself
or at least - run a (Scan Tool - Relative Injector Flow Test) with the new engine
as we also have another possible and that is the (PCM - Circuit Driver - for Cyl #3)

What codes (if any) were showing on a scan?

You are looking for results close to these

Thanks for that. The new engine comes with its original injectors. So I'm going to run those cuz they have fewer mileage. So that should help narrow things.

 

[Burnt Money]

@f6sk are you doing it yourself or a local shop? Really curious since we probably live less than 30min apart lol.

 

[Rp930]

You could maybe have that old cylinder injector checked to see if it shows as a problem for the root cause.

 

[Cmar]

Surprised the knock sensor didn't wind back the advance to stop that. Perhaps it did, but hit the limit with a faulty injector or wiring.

Problem with all high performance turbo petrol engines, they all operate on a knife edge of performance vs self destruction.

Diesels too although they have the opposite problem where it's too much fuel which kills them as they are lean burn by design.

 

[airline tech]

Since its going to be apart;
I would perform some checks prior to starting the (new) engine.

Was this coding anything relating to the injector circuit?

Inspect each injector (inlet and nozzle) - any noted debris that could deform the spray pattern.
Looking for a (non-electrical) fault

All of the following checks are with Battery Disconnected & Key Off

Injector (Component Test) - The Injector (itself) Pin 1 to Pin 2
Ensure all injectors are at the same (Room Temp)
Injector (Component Resistance) Check
Ohms Scale - Probe Both (Pins)
Specs = 1.0 to 3.0 Ohms
They should all match (Results) - Very Closely

Wiring Checks - Injector to PCM


Disconnect PCM C175E
Measure from each Injector (Pin) to PCM (Pin) - and perform a harness shake test (while measuring readings)
Ohms Scale:
You may see about 1.0 ohm to 3.0 Ohms on each wire - and again all wires should match
If High Resistance reading - jump to the C1019 Connector and check Inj to C1019 and C1019 to PCM
Spec is 5.0 ohms or less

Injector Circuit - Run

Pinouts are as follows:
Pin #1 = Injector Return
Pin #2 = Injector Driver (Signal)

Inj #1:
Pin 1 - To C1019 (Pin 9) to C175E (Pin 78)
Pin 2 - To C1019 (Pin 1) to C175E (Pin 83)

Inj #2:
Pin 1 - To C1019 (Pin 12) to C175E (Pin 77)
Pin 2 - To C1019 (Pin 4) to C175E (Pin 82)

Inj #3:
Pin 1 - To C1019 (Pin 13) to C175E (Pin 88)
Pin 2 - To C1019 (Pin 5) to C175E (Pin 93)

Inj #4:
Pin 1 - To C1019 (Pin 14) to C175E (Pin 89)
Pin 2 - To C1019 (Pin 6) to C174E (Pin 94)


Now we want to (static) check the PCM driver circuit (a basic) check for circuit integrity
With the PCM Connector (Disconnected)

Check the circuits for short together. (Driver + Return)
Injector Connector- Meter Leads (Pin 1 to Pin 2)
Check all 4 circuits and they should match - Greater than 10K Ohms

Check the driver circuit for short to ground
Injector Connector.
Meter Leads
Pin 1 to Good Ground
Pin 2 to Good Ground
Check all 8 circuits and they should match - Greater than 10K Ohms.

I suspect that if there was an electrical issue on any of the circuits - it should have coded.
Since you do not have a - Verified (Cause) and i do not know what testing (if any) was done prior to pulling the head, I strongly recommend checking the electrical side of the circuits before the new engine is started (potential) to induce the exact same issue and cylinder damage.
plus i suspect - if an issue is found (on the driver) and its a single injector issue it would be on the -Return side (Pin 1)


Its simple and basic, not a full test of the circuits, but at least should reveal any major issues
Just be careful on the size of the test leads when probing the connectors, do not force them in.
if you do not have the proper sized test leads - a sewing -T-Pin would suffice

The best way to test the actual (Injector Driver) is via a Lab Scope with the engine running (if the PCM is not coding anything) for the injector circuit (self test - monitoring)
By performing all the wiring and injector (component) test - you are eliminating those electrically out of the equation.


For Reference. - Connector Pinouts

C175E

Injector #3 - For Ref
C183 - All 4 are the same pinouts

Pay close attention to #3 connector - ensure contacts are secure and tight

C1019

Again - i may be overthinking this - but i feel its a good check to eliminate any obvious issues before inducing the issue on the new engine. Since it is unknown (verified) the exact issue (if injector) was it restricted and disrupting the flow or was it electrically (not pulsing correctly)

 

[Cmar]

Well hopefully he has removed the first issue (injector) because he said the swap engine came complete with injectors, however the second issue (electrical) could still be present if it has indeed been the cause. Perhaps if he still has access to the original injectors he could have them checked for electrical faults or physical obstructions. With direct petrol injection are the injectors individually coded to the PCM like DI diesel ones are?

 

[TJC]

If it proves to be a clogged injector, then this is another reason to stay with top tier gasoline, and a can of Techron in the tank prior to each oil change.

Keep those injectors functioning in tip top shape.

 

[airline tech]

No coding required for the 2.3

 

[RangerBill]

Did the engine oil used have the correct ratings as called for in the owner's manual? The correct oil has additives to help prevent low speed detonations (Low-Speed Pre-Ignition) which is very destructive.

https://www.valvolineglobal.com/en-ksa/what-is-lspi/

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