Alcohol good or bad in inducted engines

[seasprite]

Frenchy's thread got me thinking about this. And I don't cause a thread slide.


And some of the answers reminded me of some lack of understanding I have about alcohol in our fuel.
Seen other people mention they would love to run a higher mix of ethanol in there gas. Always thought alcohol didn't burn as well as gas beside the corrosive properties, therefore should be avoided for better performance and fuel economy. Unless you have an nitro methane beast of course.

So is there an answer or is another best oil question?

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[ctechbob]

More to it than that.

Has a cooling effect on the intake charge - more power
Has a higher AKI (Octane) - More timing, more boost, more power

Downside is you have to burn a lot more of it....and our trucks aren't built with fuel system components that will tolerate it, so you need to be willing to deal with that downside.

 

[Langwilliams]

I don't think it's that it doesn't burn as well, it's that it isn't as efficient. You need to burn more to get the same yield. It's like 98 an up octane so guys with aggressive tunes love it. When I had a 93 tune in my ranger I would add 2 or 3 gallons of E85 to 91 octane.

I'm not the biggest fan of ethanol but I'm starting to not mind it as much. I still pay up to get ethanol free from my mowers and small engines, mainly for the longer shelf life since they sit an some of them are older an were build before running it was factored in to building the engines.

There's ratios to get E20 and E30, so 20-30% ethanal mixing E85 with premium to get a mix. They say we can run E15 and I have a handful of times so 20% is right there. I didn't do it often

 

[BassRanger]

The E10 blended fuels for passenger vehicles have been around for literal decades. Likewise vehicle fuels systems have been designed to handle this fuel also for decades. Much of the ruckus behind ethanol blended fuels is either stems from; the politics behind it, high percentage blends, ie E85, severely outdated information, or just straight up misinformation. There are pros and cons to ethanol blends, but as far as vehicle performance and longevity is concerned, the effects of small volume E10 blends are minute if not negligible in most cases.

 

[Frenchy]

One thing to consider with both Alcohol and Ethanol Fuel is the fact that is has Cooling Properties that help you make more power as long as you have enough. That said unless the vehicle has been setup correctly to run a high concentration(depending on the vehicle and engine will depend on what needs to be done) I say it is best to stick with what the manufacturer recommends using. For example the Ranger with the 2.3 EcoBoost and my 2012 Frontier are only able to accept Ethanol Fuel Blend of up to E15 and nothing more. If the vehicles were Flex Fuel Compatible then they would be able to take a Ethanol Fuel Blend of up to E85.

 

[Loweredon33s]

I’ve been running e30 for a couple years. I made just under 400hp to the wheels and would never have done it without ethanol.

 

[Racket]

I think the Ecoboost is designed with ethanol in mind even if not E85 - over 10:1 compression + a turbo makes up for alcohol's inefficiency.

It's nice that those of us so inclined can mod/tune/upgrade related parts to our tastes.

 

[Dereku]

I regularly run e15. Feels like midgrade or premium, but the mpgs are a touch worse.

Whereas running actual 91 or 93 I get better MPGs on long drives.

 

[seasprite]

So with normal pump gas the 10% is not enough to provide the cooling you guys are talking about and less chance of pre ignition as well and the engine still needs a tune take advantage of the higher % of mix.

Been running 91 o% alcohol on my stock Ranger and have seen a decent improvement in mileage and response. Just wondering if the engine would benefit by going to the 91 10% mix. As far as price around here I'm talking only a .05 difference in price between the 2.

I know I would take a little bit of hit on the fuel mileage but if it would help with other things like keeping pre ignition at bay and cooler combustion chambers I might try it.

Sometimes I think I might hear a little pre ignition when I start off from a stop, just not sure with this engine. Never owned a 4cyl or turbo before and some of the sound are different than my 5.4 3v which is expected. Just seems like always something new to learn.

 

[mtsoxfan]

I'm just an everyday driver, conservative, get on it once in a while. I load the bed with stuff, rarely tow, mountainous roads. I run 87, and I'm fine with that performance. Ran 91 for a while early on, noticed a difference in performance, but with my driving style, didn't need it. back to 87. Never, ever notice preignition. I thought that was what the computer system took care of.
Back to OP, does running higher alcohol amounts effect oil and all oil related at all? Just curious...

 

[Loweredon33s]

I think the Ecoboost is designed with ethanol in mind even if not E85 - over 10:1 compression + a turbo makes up for alcohol's inefficiency.

It's nice that those of us so inclined can mod/tune/upgrade related parts to our tastes.

The inefficiencies are not an issue. It’s the excessive amount of fuel that is doing all the cooling. (Think like a well controlled meth kit)
We have found e30 to be enough ethanol to maintain consistent performance while not overtaxing the stock pumps. I’m considering installing an in tank pump and increasing the ethanol until I need a HPFP (which I then will install as well)
Thing is, I’m not interested in making much more power, the limit for me is going to be maybe 400-410hp and 400tq
Others have made more but it doesn’t seem like they stick around long…

 

[Loweredon33s]

I'm just an everyday driver, conservative, get on it once in a while. I load the bed with stuff, rarely tow, mountainous roads. I run 87, and I'm fine with that performance. Ran 91 for a while early on, noticed a difference in performance, but with my driving style, didn't need it. back to 87. Never, ever notice preignition. I thought that was what the computer system took care of.
Back to OP, does running higher alcohol amounts effect oil and all oil related at all? Just curious...

The knock sensors will control knock but that low timing from 87 is actually pretty hard on the engine. I’m not OP but I only noticed fuel dilution over 5k miles on the oil and especially when cold. It was like that with gas and not much different with ethanol. In the winter my catch can fills with fuel every 200-300 miles depending on temperature. In the summer it never gets a drop.

 

[mtsoxfan]

The knock sensors will control knock but that low timing from 87 is actually pretty hard on the engine. I’m not OP but I only noticed fuel dilution over 5k miles on the oil and especially when cold. It was like that with gas and not much different with ethanol. In the winter my catch can fills with fuel every 200-300 miles depending on temperature. In the summer it never gets a drop.

At what octane is it not hard on engine? Hard in what way? Like old school lugging an engine hard?

Thanks

 

[Jason B]

The inefficiencies are not an issue. It’s the excessive amount of fuel that is doing all the cooling. (Think like a well controlled meth kit)
We have found e30 to be enough ethanol to maintain consistent performance while not overtaxing the stock pumps. I’m considering installing an in tank pump and increasing the ethanol until I need a HPFP (which I then will install as well)
Thing is, I’m not interested in making much more power, the limit for me is going to be maybe 400-410hp and 400tq
Others have made more but it doesn’t seem like they stick around long…

Don't our trucks already have both? I know it has HPFP, which is needed for direct injection.

 

[Loweredon33s]

At what octane is it not hard on engine? Hard in what way? Like old school lugging an engine hard?

Thanks

The lugging is terrible regardless, google LSPI and you’ll see.
We have a 10:1 compression engine running over 20psi, it needs octane badly.

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