AGM battery reliability

[Rp930]

I’m going to leave the charging system alone and see how long the new battery lasts. (Diehard)

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[dtech]

I’m going to leave the charging system alone and see how long the new battery lasts. (Diehard)

Diehard belongs in the thread "rememberances from the past" my snide remark of the day, will limit myself to just one.

Happy Holiday and may your battery stay merry and bright !

 

[dtech]

My biggest issue with the BMS system is that I cannot locate any real documentation on how it works, only half- *** descriptions, even the Ranger Service manual only mentions that it is designed to monitor Refresh Phase and if over 80% state of charge for long periods of time, increased risk of battery cell sulfation. Note: it only states monitor (not control it)
Not one mention of the 70% setting we see with FORscan, online searches are no help either
But with my testing I think I understand it now, and will play with the setting (SOC) to see what changes in voltage actually happen

you need to disect that little black thingy on the neg cable and find all the answers there, it probably has a resistor and/or magnet in there just like those magical plug in devices that improve hp output.

 

[KJRR]

I've only 1/2 followed all the BCM and battery discussions so I'm wondering if the 70% means we are charging the battery to 70% of its capacity (which is what everyone assumes) or if the alternator is limited to 70% output?
Two very different things.
Limiting alternator output means the battery can still reach full capacity, just at a slower pace. This makes more sense to me since slower charging, generally less heat and longer battery life. Fast charging generates more heat and shortens battery life.
Just a random thought around the parts of the debate I have read.

 

[Rp930]

Diehard belongs in the thread "rememberances from the past" my snide remark of the day, will limit myself to just one.

Happy Holiday and may your battery stay merry and bright !

So true. I have no more faith in it than the Motorcraft one but it was on the shelf 1/2 mile from my house. Funny, every battery of the same type at every parts store was the same price to the penny. I’m sure all made in the same place with different stickers and case color.

I forgot how often start stop engages with a new battery. Apparently my old one was failing for a while.

Happy Holidays to you also.

 

[Dgc333]

FWIW, I installed a gauge pod on my dash with a vacuum/boost, oil pressure and voltage gauges.

The charging in the Ranger acts differently than any other vehicle I have ever owned. The charging voltage varies any where from about 12.8 to 15 volts. 12.8 is little or no charging going on and 15 is an over charge condition. And when you see these numbers does not seem to add up to my understanding of what should be happening. I most off see 12.8 right after starting and 15 when cruising after the truck has been running. Also, the voltage will go to 15 at idle quite often then drop back into the mid to upper 13s when at/above 1500 rpm. Most steady state driving the voltage is in the mid 13s as I would expect. I have not had any of the issues folks have reported here in the 21k miles since buying my 21 Ranger.

My 17 Ecoboost Mustang never displayed any of these peculiarities it was consistently between 13.5 and just over 14 volts. The only option my Lariat has the Mustang didn't have is ASS which has been turned off since a couple of weeks after getting it.

 

[BGDOGY]

So true. I have no more faith in it than the Motorcraft one but it was on the shelf 1/2 mile from my house. Funny, every battery of the same type at every parts store was the same price to the penny. I’m sure all made in the same place with different stickers and case color.

I forgot how often start stop engages with a new battery. Apparently my old one was failing for a while.

Happy Holidays to you also.

That is so true about just a couple of manufactuers of battery makers. If you go to youtube and check out Project Farm, he has done tests on both AGM and regular flooded batteries and he was talking about the manufactuers being the same for most of them. I think the Walmart battery was the winner for a flooded battery, can't remember which AGM won.

 

[Dgc333]

Does Tow/Haul or Sport change what you're seeing ?

I so seldom use either of the modes I have not noticed if there is a difference.

 

[Dunedain Ranger]

At about 25Kish in September, (build date 11/2019-vehicle purchased on 02/21/20 from dealer) I started noticing loss of ASS and then the center console screen went dark - got repeated battery saving mode messages in the app - made an appt with dealer, and on 10/15 they replaced the battery under B2B warranty @ no charge. I have the very basic XL Ranger. I asked for the Lariat battery and would have paid the difference, but they wouldn't do that.

 

[airline tech]

From my post on the Battery Failing -Thread

I plan on bumping the SOC to 80% and see if the voltage readings change @ rest
I did the below tests to get a reference point
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I bought a couple of Voltage Meters from Ebay (cheap) just to get baseline voltage readings from the truck to see what is normal or average for the BMS system

1. The One I like is this one, Accurate as compared to my Fluke Meter @ Battery

Works great, but due to angle of our Power ports you have to view it at angle but readable, might try a brand that have the display facing (upward) if I buy another one, but it does not interfere with shifter or anything, you can read it @ a glance while driving.

Amazon.com: Zeltauto LED Digital Car Voltmeter 12V/24V Vehicle Voltage Gauge Monitor for Auto Car Truck : Automotive

I also bought another style Voltage Meter (with dual USB) ports and this style only reads 12.6volts, so this is regulated to only allow 12 Volts (Charging-Feature) Protection. So don't buy this style for Voltage Check. - Plus, you cannot read the voltage unless you tilt your head all the way down to level with the gauge, quality built for USB purpose but not for this test

Test Results:

My Truck - 22 - (3 Months Old) - So new - Now my A/Start is deleted from Factory, so I don't have that to factor in on battery discharge (wear)

I Thought that this post might help in determining if your battery is on the way out.
as I would consider these readings normal without any FORscan changes to the SOC from 70%

Average @ Rest Voltage = 12.2 to 12.7 Volts after sitting for 12 hours (Truck Off)

Driving @ Night - Sys Loaded, Radio/HVAC-Auto/ Headlights & Fogs On - 13.5 Volts to 15.0 Volts
Varies depending on (BMS Charging Phase) most common is 14.7 Volts
Voltage does not fluctuate it just varies with each drive and weather it is in refresh phase (Charging)

Idle in Park:
System Loaded - Radio-HVAC On & (Blower-High)- Headlights/Fogs On = 13.5 Volts
System Unloaded -All Items above - Off = 12.4 Volts

Starting:
Lowest I have seen it drop down to is 12.0 Volts, after starter disengages jumps to 14.5 to 15.0 Volts and then settles to 13.5 to 14.8 Volts (To replenish charge from the starter draw)
On this specific test - I don't know how accurate the gauge is due to @ this point the PowerPoints are in transition of power transfer - (On/Off/On), Note: I did this test with PowerPoints still active at start - (Not Timed Out)

Truck Off - Sitting it Truck / Lights -Timed-Out / Radio on - 12.6 Volts then After Radio Time Out (10 Minutes) / Door Opened & Closed - Lights Timed Out - 12.2 Volts, after sitting @ rest Voltage will climb to 12.4 to 12.7 Volts (Residual Voltage Returning to the Battery)

So, this confirms that 12.2 is the minimal voltage you may see and as described in the service manual - (In a Normal working system)

So, by using the various AGM Battery SOC charts, there are a ton of them online. 12.2 V = 70% SOC
If I am correct this is how the 70% SOC factors in (It's the minimal voltage the system will allow in a normal charging phase. Basically, no voltage lower than 12.2 Volts (Is its functional goal) I cannot verify this by documentation as I cannot locate anything that puts this in black and white. But If I am correct, I understand it better
Before this test, I understood it to keep battery at 70% SOC (Max) and I could not wrap my head around that to make sense
Note: The AGM SOC charts vary with voltage, depending on Deep Cycle Marine Battery or not and found one that appeared to be correct info

UPDATE:

I found a vital piece of info today relating to the A/Start not working - with System Charging message being displayed on your IPC. It answers one of my hard-to-find questions.
It is a General Service Bulletin, put out by Ford.

My takeaway from this. Battery Voltage below 11.3 Volts - A/Start will not engage
I am still monitoring my battery charging and plan on upping the FORscan SOC to 80% to note any changes I will be starting a new thread once my diagnostics are complete

Now ref the attached Service Bulleting:
My takeaways:

It states battery voltage above 11.3 volts, now with truck running you will always be above this voltage (13.5 to 15.1) showing at the BMS sensor, so this cannot be ref voltage for the system, or it would always work (A/Start) (If the alternator is working correctly)

When the truck is (off) you get an initial SOC reading of 12.2 to 12.7 volts, after truck sits overnight with 6 to 8 hours being untouched the BMS sensor is calculating current SOC during this time.
Now for me as of now the lowest I have seen (Putting truck in ASSY before actually starting is 11.7 Volts)

So, for those who are experiencing (A/Start not working) a quick check would be to check your battery voltage after it has sat for longer than 6 to 8 hours to see if it is below 11.3 volts.
Note: You will have to do this via (at battery) or (powerpoint voltmeter) before you actually start the truck, or you will never see it. (Full-Actual, At-Rest Voltage) that the BMS sensor is seeing and sending info to the BCM and PCM to either Enable or Disable the system.

So, here lies the questions:

1. Is it the battery not holding or accepting the charge, now I want to point out that when you start the truck and take it to the dealer to have this checked, you are now above the normal minimum voltage of 12.2 volts that the system description calls out. (Charging System) and you are above the 11.3 volts for A/Start enable at this point but the last SOC check by the system (At Rest) will still have it disabled

2. The charging system works on (Time Installed) battery and it slowly adjusts battery charging phase parameters down as the battery ages, it has nothing to do with the actual battery health.
I believe this is what is triggering the A/Start issues

A: So, at this point in Aging Battery Charge Algorithm - Is the charging system keeping the battery at a low (At Rest SOC)?

B: Is the battery not holding the charge and draining off (At rest SOC)?

Note: This service bulleting as well as the service manuals are still not precisely clear on the BMS system, but at least it gives a ref voltage of 11.3 Volts, this is the most important piece of info - The Trigger Voltage, and I am pretty certain this is most likely or at least close to the trigger voltage of (Deep Sleep) (Remote Start) (Passive Entry) etc issues
Plus note the links to the videos require Ford Employee sign on, might be able to find on you-tube (IDK) I did not check

More to come with my new thread and some further quick checks owners can do to check charging system operation as I am still in process of piecing together info and real on truck testing

 

[Langwilliams]

My truck has over 38K on it so having the dealership check the battery won't get me a warranty replacement.

 

[Floyd]

What could POSSIBLY cause FORD to set the truck up to...

1] charge the battery below full charge.
2]Continually reduce the charge level as the battery has more time in service.


My only thought is that they wish to do two things...

1] force early battery failure to sell more batteries
2] Force the owners to become the victims of unscrupulous proprietary service work at exorbitant prices.

I understand that time marches on after retirement, but I have decades of extensive automotive experience and I am feeling a bit intimidated by something as simple as battery service.

The unreasonable level of complication and intentional lack of support by local Ford service departments may just mean that I have purchased my last new Ford.
For the time being .... I require a source for reliable information to allow me to proceed with a better sense of confidence.

How do you properly determine whether a new battery is required?
How do you reset "time in service"?
Can an ordinary battery sales place properly change the battery without involving a dealer service dept.?
What happens if I simply buy a new battery and install it with or without providing keep alive power during the transition.

WHEW! WHAT AM I MISSING HERE

 

[Trigganometry]

New technology, all the “extra’s” that are parasitic draws on the battery while at rest is calculated but real world conditions show something altogether different. Knowing what the BMS system does and how that operates in the grand scheme is still a unknown. I changed my BDYcm module Battery state of charge to 90%. Did that over a year ago. At first I had the BMS disconnected at the battery to disable ASS. Then changed with Forscan and been good so far. I’m in the NE so mine doesn’t get the heat. But I definitely need cranking amps when it’s cold. Never get sleep messages since changing ether.

 

[oldnslow]

What could POSSIBLY cause FORD to set the truck up to...

1] charge the battery below full charge.
2]Continually reduce the charge level as the battery has more time in service.


My only thought is that they wish to do two things...

1] force early battery failure to sell more batteries
2] Force the owners to become the victims of unscrupulous proprietary service work at exorbitant prices.

I understand that time marches on after retirement, but I have decades of extensive automotive experience and I am feeling a bit intimidated by something as simple as battery service.

The unreasonable level of complication and intentional lack of support by local Ford service departments may just mean that I have purchased my last new Ford.
For the time being .... I require a source for reliable information to allow me to proceed with a better sense of confidence.

How do you properly determine whether a new battery is required?
How do you reset "time in service"?
Can an ordinary battery sales place properly change the battery without involving a dealer service dept.?
What happens if I simply buy a new battery and install it with or without providing keep alive power during the transition.

WHEW! WHAT AM I MISSING HERE

I replaced my battery last spring without any "keep-alive" power source. The only thing that happened is the power window lost its one-touch function. Ran it down and up - fixed. It may have lost radio presets but I don't know because I don't listen to broadcast radio anymore. So yes - any battery place can replace your battery. I did mine at home.

As far as this being your last Ford - all mfgrs are doing this now. Buying another brand will not help. You will still get ASS and dead batteries...

I am not sure there is a "battery time in service" parameter to reset. I don't think the charge parameters are linked to time. I certainly have not seen this in my Ranger.

I think the main (probably only) reason for the 70% charge is to squeeze every last bit of MPG out of the truck to meet their CAFE numbers. We pay the price in battery replacement costs.

 

[Muffin1]

I've made a previous post about my truck sitting for 2+ weeks and went to start it and the Batt was pretty much dead, charged it back and have been keeping it on a 1.5 amp trickle, (although i tested a 1.57 amp parasitic draw using the multimeter test.
So today i finally had some time to mess around with Forscan, I changed the batt charge % to 90,
messing around some more did the courtesy wipe to 2 seconds, the radio screen to the Ford Performance, ABS brake bleed, and a couple failed attempts to change the DRL's to the park/signal lights, a 'unsuccessful' screen popped up i think i need to make other DRL changes besides just the one i tried, like disable 'low beams'.
So i was inside the truck for maybe a half hour with ign on (doors shut no radio) and had to cycle off to on as directed by Forscan screen, when i finished i tried to start and all i got was a slow crank and no start. I removed the 1.5 amp trickle and hooked up my larger charger set to 10 amp then kicked it up to 55 amp start feature, it then started. I now have it on the 2 amp setting overnight.
So i want to see if the batt acts any different with the 90% charge setting.
Needles to say i was surprised how quick the batt drained down.
It's the original batt now 40 months old fwiw, i also have disconnected that ASS plug from the neg terminal.

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