22 ranger tremor: vibration/droning between 50-60mph

[Stevedbvik1]

Ok , trip to Discount Tire may have paid off. They found the left front to be quite a ways off. The other three were good. Something about it being “64” and they got it down to “16” like the other 3. Just a short drive home from there and it seems much better. Time will tell though. Waiting to hear back from dealer on what “order” of tire vibration they detected when doing their analysis last week. Also today I stumbled upon a Ford service manual reference to using the Hunter Road Force balancer for solution to tire vibration.

Finally heard back from dealer about order of vibration they detected when using their VCMM scan tool. They sent me these images recorded while on test drive. Thought I would post them for informational value. Truck rides much better. Still a slight thing going on but I may be hyper sensitive too.

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[Dr3wDrop]

Finally heard back from dealer about order of vibration they detected when using their VCMM scan tool. They sent me these images recorded while on test drive. Thought I would post them for informational value. Truck rides much better. Still a slight thing going on but I may be hyper sensitive too.

I don’ think i can read this clearly on my phone. What did they do/find?

 

[Stevedbvik1]

I don’ think i can read this clearly on my phone. What did they do/find?

I don’ think i can read this clearly on my phone. What did they do/find?

If you didn’t read back here’s the history

post 1
My 2022 Tremor is currently at the dealer for vibration issues. 7100 miles on it. It was built in February and axle serial number is 22039 so two below the suspect range. They had their NVH on it yesterday and are saying tires. They are going to check balance this morning. I or they haven’t brought up the SSM yet. Mine was really smooth up until about a 5000 miles. Rotated at 5400 and it seems to be getting more prevalent. We’ll see what they say today.

Post 2

Follow up on findings. Got my truck back today. They did a vibration analysis with their VCMM diagnostic tool. Analysis confirmed when and what I was feeling and pinpointed to the tires. They balanced the tires and found two that were 1.0 oz out and one that was .7 out. The fourth was spot on. After picking it up it did feel better but not gone. I had rotated the tires at 6400 miles and vibration had been getting worse since ( now 7200). I did the front to back and crossed the fronts to the rear ( per owners manual instructions). When I got home I swapped the left and right rears to get them back in the same rotation direction as they were. Suspecting that had something to do with it. It did make a difference. Still have a slight vibration in the same range though but much better than before. I stopped at my local Discount Tire where we’ve done business the last 20 years. Talked with them about my situation and also about RoadForce balancing ( dealer used conventional balancer). So I’m going to bring it in Monday to see if they can either fine tune it or spot something with a tire/tires. Stay tuned

Post 3

Ok , trip to Discount Tire may have paid off. They found the left front to be quite a ways off. The other three were good. Something about it being “64” and they got it down to “16” like the other 3. Just a short drive home from there and it seems much better. Time will tell though. Waiting to hear back from dealer on what “order” of tire vibration they detected when doing their analysis last week. Also today I stumbled upon a Ford service manual reference to using the Hunter Road Force balancer for solution to tire vibration.

Post 4

Finally heard back from dealer about order of vibration they detected when using their VCMM scan tool. They sent me these images recorded while on test drive. Thought I would post them for informational value. Truck rides much better. Still a slight thing going on but I may be hyper sensitive too.

 

[CO2Ranger]

If you didn’t read back here’s the history

post 1
My 2022 Tremor is currently at the dealer for vibration issues. 7100 miles on it. It was built in February and axle serial number is 22039 so two below the suspect range. They had their NVH on it yesterday and are saying tires. They are going to check balance this morning. I or they haven’t brought up the SSM yet. Mine was really smooth up until about a 5000 miles. Rotated at 5400 and it seems to be getting more prevalent. We’ll see what they say today.

Post 2

Follow up on findings. Got my truck back today. They did a vibration analysis with their VCMM diagnostic tool. Analysis confirmed when and what I was feeling and pinpointed to the tires. They balanced the tires and found two that were 1.0 oz out and one that was .7 out. The fourth was spot on. After picking it up it did feel better but not gone. I had rotated the tires at 6400 miles and vibration had been getting worse since ( now 7200). I did the front to back and crossed the fronts to the rear ( per owners manual instructions). When I got home I swapped the left and right rears to get them back in the same rotation direction as they were. Suspecting that had something to do with it. It did make a difference. Still have a slight vibration in the same range though but much better than before. I stopped at my local Discount Tire where we’ve done business the last 20 years. Talked with them about my situation and also about RoadForce balancing ( dealer used conventional balancer). So I’m going to bring it in Monday to see if they can either fine tune it or spot something with a tire/tires. Stay tuned

Post 3

Ok , trip to Discount Tire may have paid off. They found the left front to be quite a ways off. The other three were good. Something about it being “64” and they got it down to “16” like the other 3. Just a short drive home from there and it seems much better. Time will tell though. Waiting to hear back from dealer on what “order” of tire vibration they detected when doing their analysis last week. Also today I stumbled upon a Ford service manual reference to using the Hunter Road Force balancer for solution to tire vibration.

Post 4

Finally heard back from dealer about order of vibration they detected when using their VCMM scan tool. They sent me these images recorded while on test drive. Thought I would post them for informational value. Truck rides much better. Still a slight thing going on but I may be hyper sensitive too.

What did they change? Still not clear on that part. Does the work order say?

 

[Stevedbvik1]

What did they change? Still not clear on that part. Does the work order say?

Post 2 and 3 explain clearly what was done by dealer and Discount Tire. Post 4 is a follow up to dealers analysis findings in post 2.

 

[CO2Ranger]

Post 2 and 3 explain clearly what was done by dealer and Discount Tire. Post 4 is a follow up to dealers analysis findings in post 2.

I get it now. Thanks for humoring me. It's been a long day.

 

[Stevedbvik1]

I get it now. Thanks for humoring me. It's been a long day.

?

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Post 2 and 3 explain clearly what was done by dealer and Discount Tire. Post 4 is a follow up to dealers analysis findings in post 2.

Hi Steve,

A bit hard to follow....but tires were certainly flagged and a rebalance reduced the vibration, but the 2nd order in the last pix may indicate a slightly out of round tire...Ovality as it may be called. Do not know if tire folks can "true" tires like they could about 10 years ago. That may clean up the residual vibration which you are sensing. The dealership equipment tries to interpret the measurements and does a pretty good job, but sometimes the algorithms do not create a definitive case for a secondary cause....out of round as well as balance....

We use to say in NVH...there is no magic bullet...there is always more than one contributing factor. Anyway, you got the big hitter...Tire Balance.

So take the frequency noted and multiply by 60 and you will get the likely engine RPM or Driveshaft RPM dependent on where the unit was placed.... Does this agree with RPM when you are doing 50 to 60 mph? Just curious as I do not know the "science" behind these FFT based analyzers.

best,
Phil

 

[Stevedbvik1]

Hi Steve,

A bit hard to follow....but tires were certainly flagged and a rebalance reduced the vibration, but the 2nd order in the last pix may indicate a slightly out of round tire...Ovality as it may be called. Do not know if tire folks can "true" tires like they could about 10 years ago. That may clean up the residual vibration which you are sensing. The dealership equipment tries to interpret the measurements and does a pretty good job, but sometimes the algorithms do not create a definitive case for a secondary cause....out of round as well as balance....

We use to say in NVH...there is no magic bullet...there is always more than one contributing factor. Anyway, you got the big hitter...Tire Balance.

So take the frequency noted and multiply by 60 and you will get the likely engine RPM or Driveshaft RPM dependent on where the unit was placed.... Does this agree with RPM when you are doing 50 to 60 mph? Just curious as I do not know the "science" behind these FFT based analyzers.

best,
Phil

Phil
Thanks for chiming in. I was looking at that RPM/speed thing also. I’ll have to take it for a ride to compare. The screen shots were before the dealer static balanced the tires which gave some improvement. The biggest change was when Discount Tire RoadForce balanced the left front. They got it to the best that they could but I still think there’s something up with that tire. Pondering swapping my new unused spare onto the left front to see what that does. Would put in on the same rim and have it RoadForce balanced.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Phil
Thanks for chiming in. I was looking at that RPM/speed thing also. I’ll have to take it for a ride to compare. The screen shots were before the dealer static balanced the tires which gave some improvement. The biggest change was when Discount Tire RoadForce balanced the left front. They got it to the best that they could but I still think there’s something up with that tire. Pondering swapping my new unused spare onto the left front to see what that does. Would put in on the same rim and have it RoadForce balanced.

Hi Steve,

That would be a very interesting test... This is not the first time I have faced a "bad " tire and it was very difficult to diagnose until we got into FFT analysis and could determine orders vs driveshaft or engine depending. Even then...it took experience to determine. As we had many prototypes and back then we put the "good" prototype on the hoist next to the "bad" vehicle and swapped tires/wheels to see it the problem transferred to the "good" vehicle and the "bad" vehicle became good. If the problem stayed with the "bad" vehicle we refocused to other reasons for the "bad" vehicle and if it did transfer then we did one wheel/tire at a time until we id'd the wheel tire and investigated this.... Time consuming process. Using analyzers helped us move forward on NVH related issues including prototype assembly quality which was always on the table but yes...Ford built lemon prototypes too. And our biggest challenge was to understand why the Lemon was a Lemon.... The Inexact "science" of the time is now replaced by much more accurate data acquisition and analysis. I am so happy that Rotunda Tools has developed these tools.

We had a desk top sized FFt analyzer that only three of us in Truck learned to use. Now it is almost the size of a Smart phone. But the Engineers have to understand the systems and their interaction. Eg. Tire/wheel vs wheel and tire... This is the current downfall... Gotta think...not let the machine think for you... Not so at the dealership level tech...the machine tries to think for them in about a good 95% level, which is good.

Anyway, a bit of background. Take away, Ford Truck was not afraid to advance into modern development...unlike Car, which remained "old school" much longer than Truck and this is one reason why Truck was the profit center of the North American vehicles...

JMO,
Phil

 

[Stevedbvik1]

Hi Steve,

That would be a very interesting test... This is not the first time I have faced a "bad " tire and it was very difficult to diagnose until we got into FFT analysis and could determine orders vs driveshaft or engine depending. Even then...it took experience to determine. As we had many prototypes and back then we put the "good" prototype on the hoist next to the "bad" vehicle and swapped tires/wheels to see it the problem transferred to the "good" vehicle and the "bad" vehicle became good. If the problem stayed with the "bad" vehicle we refocused to other reasons for the "bad" vehicle and if it did transfer then we did one wheel/tire at a time until we id'd the wheel tire and investigated this.... Time consuming process. Using analyzers helped us move forward on NVH related issues including prototype assembly quality which was always on the table but yes...Ford built lemon prototypes too. And our biggest challenge was to understand why the Lemon was a Lemon.... The Inexact "science" of the time is now replaced by much more accurate data acquisition and analysis. I am so happy that Rotunda Tools has developed these tools.

We had a desk top sized FFt analyzer that only three of us in Truck learned to use. Now it is almost the size of a Smart phone. But the Engineers have to understand the systems and their interaction. Eg. Tire/wheel vs wheel and tire... This is the current downfall... Gotta think...not let the machine think for you... Not so at the dealership level tech...the machine tries to think for them in about a good 95% level, which is good.

Anyway, a bit of background. Take away, Ford Truck was not afraid to advance into modern development...unlike Car, which remained "old school" much longer than Truck and this is one reason why Truck was the profit center of the North American vehicles...

JMO,
Phil

Well I did the test ( sort of) over the weekend. Moved the spare ( full size but on a steel wheel) to the left front. Big difference even though the spare appeared to be unbalanced ( no weights). So this morning I brought the truck back to Discount Tire and had them swap the left front tire with the spare tire and RoadForce balance it. They did so and got the spare to 7lbs of road force. The left front had been balanced last week to 16lbs road force which was originally at 66lbs road force. So I am happy with the results and it rides like it did prior to the issue popping up. I am going to talk to the dealer about getting that tire replaced under warranty even though it’s now the spare. Obviously something wrong with that tire. Discount suggested that they could contact General Tire about it and I may take that up with them if the Ford route doesn’t pan out.

 

[ccasanova22]

I’ve had this from Day 1 and thought it was normal.

 

[dano42]

A random perspective that doesn't necessarily apply to anyone here, but sometimes you purchase a vehicle that gives you nothing but problems from day one (i.e., a '2000 Volvo T5 wagon, and a '96 Jeep Cherokee, both bought new, both total crap boxes) and sometimes you get one that will drive 100,000 miles with minimal issues even after beating on them. I haven't been that blessed yet, but we have had a few BMW's bought new with zero issues I'm sure that there might be some Cherokees out there and a slight possibility of a T5 or two that people drove the wheels off. Point being if it's one problem that can be sorted out, hang in there, but multiple problems on a one or two year old vehicle, I would likely take the hit and gamble again and avoid possible years of frustration.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

I’ve had this from Day 1 and thought it was normal.

Hi Casanova,

Welcome to my former world....Customers that were tolerant of most annoyances to those customers that were critical to the Nth degree... There will always be those that are dissatisfied with the product, especially automobiles of mass production. Folks tolerant of POS Ferrari reliability will be super critical of their mass production vehicle... We always took on Ranger on my watch to do the best job we could and let the chips fall where they fall.... No 100% wins in the vehicle game.

Best,
Phil

 

[Stevedbvik1]

Well I did the test ( sort of) over the weekend. Moved the spare ( full size but on a steel wheel) to the left front. Big difference even though the spare appeared to be unbalanced ( no weights). So this morning I brought the truck back to Discount Tire and had them swap the left front tire with the spare tire and RoadForce balance it. They did so and got the spare to 7lbs of road force. The left front had been balanced last week to 16lbs road force which was originally at 66lbs road force. So I am happy with the results and it rides like it did prior to the issue popping up. I am going to talk to the dealer about getting that tire replaced under warranty even though it’s now the spare. Obviously something wrong with that tire. Discount suggested that they could contact General Tire about it and I may take that up with them if the Ford route doesn’t pan out.

Follow up. Ford is covering the tire replacement under warranty.

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