New Ugly A$$ Postal Trucks

[fjwlobo]

I know my grandpa and aunt both custom ordered vehicles as right hand drive from Jeep and Toyota so that they could deliver mail in Arkansas years ago. I am not sure what steps they went through to get that approved but I bet if the order was large enough, Ford and Ram could configure the vans in right hand drive and I'd prefer an American company (Ford) to get the contract anyhow. Either way, 60k for the new mail vehicle just seems excessive though all vehicle prices right now are. And we are talking about the government, who spends our money like we won't run out of it.

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[AzScorpion]

Don't worry. They'll print more

And this is why inflation is through the roof!

 

[Motorpsychology]

I know my grandpa and aunt both custom ordered vehicles as right hand drive from Jeep and Toyota so that they could deliver mail in Arkansas years ago. I am not sure what steps they went through to get that approved but I bet if the order was large enough, Ford and Ram could configure the vans in right hand drive and I'd prefer an American company (Ford) to get the contract anyhow. Either way, 60k for the new mail vehicle just seems excessive though all vehicle prices right now are. And we are talking about the government, who spends our money like we won't run out of it.

The vans are built by Oshkosh Defense in Oshkosh, Wisconsin and they are powered by a Ford 2.0L EcoBoost I4 made at Ford's Cleveland,OH engine plant.

CORRECTION: The NGDV is built at a new Oshkosh factory in South Carolina

 

[VAMike]

What is insane about that is the Mercedes Sprinter vans are roughly the same cost and probably could get a bulk discount. The commercial Ford transit van starts at $47k for non electric and $51k for electric. Not that I would approve of FCA products but even the Ram Promaster is an option at $44k and all of these options can be configured for postal duties and appear to match or exceed the capabilities of that platypus looking vehicle.

So let's talk about why it looks the way it does: visibility and interior height. I know visibility is a dirty word in modern truck fashion (who cares if you run over a kid because you can't see less than 15 feet in front of the hood?) but I guess USPS is less psychotic than your average US car manufacturer. Visibility is even more of a factor for USPS than for regular folk as they're starting and stopping constantly in residential areas. And if you do still manage to hit someone, with a hood that low they're going to be more pissed than dead. The second major factor is interior height + overall volume. You maximize volume by making a big box. So here we have a vehicle that's a big tall box that you can stand up in. What's not a factor? Highway aerodynamics, as they're going to spend almost all of their life at low speeds. Your suggested alternatives have reasonable visibility (for 2020's vehicle design) but not as good as the NGDV. Why? because the driver is much further from the bottom of the windshield and the windshield doesn't extend as low and is much more steeply sloped. Why did they do that and compromise visibility (a major factor for USPS)? For aerodynamics (a factor that is irrelevant to USPS). So what other configurations were possible? Cabover would give you visibility, but reaching the mailbox from the seat would be a hilarious challenge, and maintenance costs (another important factor in TCO) would be higher. I don't really see many other options--what we have here seems to be a really well designed vehicle that is exquisitely matched to its role. Anything off the shelf jut isn't going to work as well. People complain that it doesn't look like most vehicles, but why on earth would you start by designing the outside of the vehicle and then cram your requirements into it instead of starting from the requirements and use those to constrain the exterior? As to the price: does it cost a bit more up front? Sure. But if it increases the efficiency of the operators, improves safety, and manages to hit reliability targets, the cost differences disappear over the design lifetime. Just having to deal with a swinging door instead of a sliding door, and having to stretch to get to the mailbox from the seat could cost more in lost productivity than you save up-front. (To put the $10-20k difference into perspective, USPS was spending something like $5k per year keeping the LLVs on the road.) Would long term maintenance costs be lower on a frankenford with specialized USPS-only modifications? Based on my recent experiences with ford QC I find that really hard to believe. Also, if the vehicles are successful and USPS increases the order size it's likely that the (inflation-adjusted) unit price will go down as the design+startup costs are already paid.

Overall, I mostly don't understand why anyone gives two shits about what a postal vehicle looks like as long as it gets the job done, but I'll actually go a step further and say that I vastly prefer how this thing looks over the high grill "aggressive" design obsession that's all we can find on the US retail truck market. I don't want my truck to look like it's trying to compensate for Freudian deficiencies; I do want my truck to look like it has good visibility, easy maintenance, decent aerodynamics (because I do drive at highway speeds), and pedestrian safety. Instead, they only want to sell me a giant block of chrome that some people apparantly think looks better and I think looks ridiculous and poorly designed.

 

[seasprite]

Reminds me of this local plumbing commercial

 

[Motorpsychology]

 

[Grumpaw]

I've been having those a lot, lot earlier than 1976 !!!

 

[GreyAreaRanger]

The vans are built by Oshkosh Defense in Oshkosh, Wisconsin and they are powered by a Ford 2.0L EcoBoost I4 made at Ford's Cleveland,OH engine plant.

CORRECTION: The NGDV is built at a new Oshkosh factory in South Carolina

While it is good to know that the chosen design is from an American company and made here, I had meant my preference for the Ford van over the Mercedes as a cheaper alternative. I should have been clearer on that but it is interesting to learn that Ford is the one providing the engines.

 

[GreyAreaRanger]

So let's talk about why it looks the way it does: visibility and interior height. I know visibility is a dirty word in modern truck fashion (who cares if you run over a kid because you can't see less than 15 feet in front of the hood?) but I guess USPS is less psychotic than your average US car manufacturer. Visibility is even more of a factor for USPS than for regular folk as they're starting and stopping constantly in residential areas. And if you do still manage to hit someone, with a hood that low they're going to be more pissed than dead. The second major factor is interior height + overall volume. You maximize volume by making a big box. So here we have a vehicle that's a big tall box that you can stand up in. What's not a factor? Highway aerodynamics, as they're going to spend almost all of their life at low speeds. Your suggested alternatives have reasonable visibility (for 2020's vehicle design) but not as good as the NGDV. Why? because the driver is much further from the bottom of the windshield and the windshield doesn't extend as low and is much more steeply sloped. Why did they do that and compromise visibility (a major factor for USPS)? For aerodynamics (a factor that is irrelevant to USPS). So what other configurations were possible? Cabover would give you visibility, but reaching the mailbox from the seat would be a hilarious challenge, and maintenance costs (another important factor in TCO) would be higher. I don't really see many other options--what we have here seems to be a really well designed vehicle that is exquisitely matched to its role. Anything off the shelf jut isn't going to work as well. People complain that it doesn't look like most vehicles, but why on earth would you start by designing the outside of the vehicle and then cram your requirements into it instead of starting from the requirements and use those to constrain the exterior? As to the price: does it cost a bit more up front? Sure. But if it increases the efficiency of the operators, improves safety, and manages to hit reliability targets, the cost differences disappear over the design lifetime. Just having to deal with a swinging door instead of a sliding door, and having to stretch to get to the mailbox from the seat could cost more in lost productivity than you save up-front. (To put the $10-20k difference into perspective, USPS was spending something like $5k per year keeping the LLVs on the road.) Would long term maintenance costs be lower on a frankenford with specialized USPS-only modifications? Based on my recent experiences with ford QC I find that really hard to believe. Also, if the vehicles are successful and USPS increases the order size it's likely that the (inflation-adjusted) unit price will go down as the design+startup costs are already paid.

Overall, I mostly don't understand why anyone gives two shits about what a postal vehicle looks like as long as it gets the job done, but I'll actually go a step further and say that I vastly prefer how this thing looks over the high grill "aggressive" design obsession that's all we can find on the US retail truck market. I don't want my truck to look like it's trying to compensate for Freudian deficiencies; I do want my truck to look like it has good visibility, easy maintenance, decent aerodynamics (because I do drive at highway speeds), and pedestrian safety. Instead, they only want to sell me a giant block of chrome that some people apparantly think looks better and I think looks ridiculous and poorly designed.

I could care less about what it looks like as long as they deliver my mail and whatnot on time. I mentioned the Ford Transit van as they do sit fairly low and appear to be able to hold more packages and mail while being cheaper. It may not sit as low as the chosen vehicle but low enough while also being able to stand in and with a short hood. A lot of electricians and plumbers have been using them and I get why. At the end of the day, its a moot point as there is nothing I can do as all the government does is steal our money and spends it on useless projects though in this case, we will call it an exception to the rule as it has been long overdue.

 

[JesseS]

Get a grip people, it's a MAIL DELIVERY vehicle, as long as it does the job and the drivers like it, which they do, why should you care. It's not like they are going clubbing it the thing!

 

[Radioman]

I've been having those a lot, lot earlier than 1976 !!!

Are you bragging or complaining???

 

[Langwilliams]

another factor in modifying an existing vehicle is the work tray requirement. There are trays of letters and magazines lined up to the drivers left. It has to be long enough an wide enough for three trays of different sources of mail to be lined up an move close enough to the carrier they can flip through them an pull mail at each stop.

The carriers that bought their own vehicles were rural route carriers. They worked under a different contract an set of rules. They could sort all the mail in the office into one source an rubber band each address individually so a work tray wasn't a requirement.

Postal management spent billions on automated systems to sequence the mail for the carriers to "save time". Not everything is machine sortable so that's how you end up with more than one source of mail. You can't touch machine sorted mail until you're flipping though it at the box.

 

[AzScorpion]

Are you bragging or complaining???

At his age now I think he's just grateful!

 

[VAMike]

A lot of electricians and plumbers have been using them

To deliver mail? It doesn't matter if they're good for some other task.

At the end of the day, its a moot point as there is nothing I can do as all the government does is steal our money and spends it on useless projects though in this case, we will call it an exception to the rule as it has been long overdue.

Ah, an empty government whine. I guess I should have just skipped over.

 

[Grumpaw]

At his age now I think he's just grateful!

Yeah, but when I do get one, everyone starts to come over with a flag they want to hoist !!!
You know, as a kid, it was hard to grow up with a nickname of "3 legs" !!!
You know what it's like as a kid, when playing baseball, to walk up to the plate and not need a bat ???
I was the only kid to enter the 3 legged sack race and not need a partner !!!
Can you imagine riding a bike and needing an attached sidecar ???
Needing special pants made, tailored with one pant leg twice as large as the other ???

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