Bad BCM (or so I'm told) and a nightmarish customer experience

[dtech]

I owned a Range Rover for a few years, without a doubt it was one of the nicest, most comfortable vehicles I've ever owned, on, or off road. But the electrics were a joke, truly bad, and parts in general always hard to find, and expensive when they finally turned up. Luckily I could do most of the work myself, because I was always fixing something.

One example engine harness caught fire- replacement part was weeks to months from the UK, none in Australia - I wonder why? and a king's ransom. - well technically it was a queens ransom back then.
After running around with a jury rig for months (soldered in bypasses for the burned bits) , I finally cracked the sh*ts, ripped it out, pulled it apart, and bought the wire and fittings from an auto electrical shop and made a proper replica myself. Actually it wasn't a exact clone, I used heavier wire and more heavy duty insulation.
The whole problem with the original was the main trunk of it ran down the valley of the V on the V8 and eventually the plastic got brittle from the heat and vibration, and the insulation would crack and short out.

I used that good old rubberized cotton tape that you can't seem to buy anymore and insulated each wire individually, and the whole harness, and made some silicone rubber standoffs to keep it off the hot engine. Never had any more trouble from that bit of the wiring.

dated article but might be worth a read - statement saying the Range Rover owners don't care if they are unreliable, probably a lot of truth in that. I believe they are selling well - including in China.

https://jalopnik.com/if-range-rovers-are-so-unreliable-why-do-people-still-1728727599



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[seanellaz]

This is a looong rant, please bear with me. Hopefully, this might be helpful to someone in the future as some other threads here have been to me!!

I posted months ago about a constant "Driver Door Ajar" alarm. It started I think the day after I brought the truck home (end of June). It beeps constantly and constantly alerts on the dash "Driver Door Ajar" and "Transmission Not in Park" and the interior lights come on randomly as I'm driving when this occurs. Also, the interior lights don't come on when you open the door, I've noticed the radio will occasionally skip, and the interior and exterior lights come on at random (I believe it does this when the truck thinks the door is open). Also, I can't lock the truck because if I do, at some point, the truck thinks the door is open and the alarm will go off......it will do this constantly. Some days, it may only trigger "Driver Door Ajar" once or twice all day....other days it's constant....very, very random and infrequent but still a daily occurence. I'm not a tech, but that's an obvious electrical issue.

So yeah, it's been an absolute nightmare.

Before I took it back to the dealer, I searched online and on here, I did find a few (not many, just a couple) of other instances where this happened....in one instance, it was actually the door sensor...in another instance or two, it was a bad ground.

The first time I took it in, I told them I had countless videos of the issue that I had taken with my cell phone.....I had numerous videos showing the issue, and could even back up the alarm going off constantly with the Ford Pass alerts. I also told them from some research online, it might be a bad sensor, bad connection or bad ground. They didn't care. Didn't look at the videos.....shrugged me off. Then of course they looked at it, and since it wasn't doing it when they looked at it, and there was no code, there was nothing they could do. Told me to bring it back when it was doing it......which is almost impossible because it's so random and infrequent.

So after another week or two or three of it happening daily, I took it back a 2nd time.....it was doing it AS I PULLED INTO THE FORD SERVICE CENTER. I pulled an advisor out and said, "look, it's doing it....please look at this so I have a witness!!" It was doing it when I pulled in....a service advisor saw it...but then after it sat there for 20 or 30 minutes, it wasn't doing it when the tech looked at it. So once again, I got the "if there's no code we can't fix it" story.

After this visit, I had received a couple of different surveys from Ford on my recent service experience. I slammed them in the surveys, and I was contacted by a Ford Customer Service rep. She was helpful and basically started calling and bugging the service department on my behalf.

I took it back a third time....this time it was doing it as the tech looked at it....I don't believe there ever was a code btw, but the tech dug in and supposedly found visible damage to the wiring connection where the harness connects to the BCM. Again, I do not believe there was a code.....they didn't mention a code, there was no code referenced on the service receipt...and there was also no mention of the visible damage to the BCM.

They ordered the parts (new BCM plus a new wiring harness)...parts came in....I talked to the service advisor earlier this week and she set me up for the repair yesterday. I brought the truck in yesterday about 8am. I asked how long it would take and she said she thought it should be done that day. I specifically asked her to call me at the end of the day one way or the other, to update me and let me know what the status was (so I could arrange my ride). Her response was "sure, of course, no problem, I understand." Then at about 11 am yesterday, the same service advisor called and asked me where the 2nd key was. I told her, I didn't know I needed to bring the 2nd key....I'm not positive where it is, but I think it's actually in the truck somewhere. She asked if she could look around for it, I told her of course.....never heard anything back from her, and so I figured she must've found it. The rest of the day came and went, and she never called me back.

This morning...as I'm sitting at my desk at work....I get a call from the Ford customer rep at 915am....she said she had just spoken to my service advisor and that the truck should be done today. Ok, sounds good. I wish they had called me yesterday afternoon like I asked, but whatever, good news. Then, literally as I'm talking to her, my phone rings from the dealership. I answer and it's the service manager. She said the 2nd key wasn't in the vehicle and they would need both keys to finish the repair (so basically, they lied to the Ford rep and then hurried up and called me). Obviously, I was immediately frustrated. I told her, first off, no one told me to bring BOTH keys when we scheduled the repair and it wasn't mentioned when I dropped the truck off. Also, the service advisor had called me at 11am asking about the key, and then I never heard back from her.....even though I very specifically and very politely asked for a call at the end of the day yesterday for an update.....had the advisor bothered to call me back and told me that they HAD to have BOTH keys...I would've turned my house upside down last night and found it, and they would be repairing it right now or it would already be done! I told the service manager I was at work right now, and to leave work and go home (where I wasn't even certain exactly where the key was) and then drive to the dealer would be MORE time taken off of work and more driving on top of the FOUR trips I've already made there!! She said she could possibly get another key....but I would have to pay for it. I told her to please find out how much and get back to me. I called the Ford rep again.....told her the service advisor basically lied or at the very least misled her...and that they wanted to charge me for a key I didn't know they even needed me to bring. The Ford Rep told me not to worry about it, she could reimburse me the cost of a key. Then the service manager called me back, said they had located a key at another dealer that is just over an hour away, and they were going to send someone to go get it....once they had it, it should be done an hour or two after they had the 2nd key. I asked the service manager how much the key would be, and she said, "well, we can cover it for you, IF YOU'RE NICE TO US ON THE SURVEY!!!!!" I told her, no, no promises there.....I'm going to answer honestly, and that I thought the only reason we were at this point was from previously complaining through surveys.....so no, you're not bribing me. She said, well the survey isn't a Ford survey, it's a survey for our department and how you've been treated. Then I repeated the point that had anyone gotten back to me yesterday, I would've found the key and we wouldn't be having this conversation and all of this back and forth would've been avoided!!! I was told I'd get a follow up call yesterday afternoon, not 9am the next morning when I'm 2 hours away. Her reply was, "we'll just call you when we have the key". Good, gotcha, bye Felicia.

So right now, it's still at the dealer....and as I type, someone is hopefully on their way to get the key.

If you've made it this far, lol, thanks for staying with me!! Here are my concerns/questions:

I don't know diddly squat about vehicle electronics.....but could there be any other issues or complications from driving 10k miles with a bad BCM?? Any other issues to check for? Any potential engine issues?

Also, it didn't make any sense to me that they didn't mention "visible damage to BCM wiring harness" on any of the service repair sheets. Since the issue started on literaly the 2nd day I had it, I'm guessing this all boils down to an issue at assembly. If I was to sell this truck in 1, 2, 3 or 6 years, wouldn't it be a good idea to have everything accurately documented within the Ford service history? Why would they not list the visible damage?

After having this random nightmarish electrical issue, now I can't help but worry about what else could unfold down the road.....and if I was buying a used truck and saw a vehicle with a back and forth (4x now in the last 3 months) history of electrical issues in the first 10k miles, I'd pass. I'd find another truck that didn't have an usual history of electrical gremlins. Right? What else can or should I do?

And call me crazy, but at the end of the day, this has all been so miserable of an experience.....I can't help but think what if the BCM isn't the problem (maybe they damaged it during one of the first 2 visits) and it's been a bad ground all this time, just like I said the 1st visit!!! I'll worry about that if that's the case.....but I can't help but think this issue isn't over.

This has been, without a doubt, the worst consumer experience of my life. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. I've taken time off of work, probably close to $100 bucks in gas plus hours of driving back and forth and waiting at the dealer, all for a brand new truck that had an issue from day 2.

If you've never seen the movie Idiocracy, check it out. That's where our society is headed! Technology has evolved to a point where a Ford technician can't fix an obvious problem on a brand new Ford vehicle without being told by a computer what the problem is (needing a code). Codes have apparently eliminated the need or ability to diagnose.

Me fix modern car. Computer no say what wrong, I too dumb to fix. Even though have eyes, no have brane. Cannot figure thing out by think and look same time. Sorry must stop type now to breathe.... .... Ok can type now. Cannot type and breathe same time. Computer say no wrong. Your truck not broken. You come get.

 

[Glocker]

Couple things to keep in mind here. First, if the tech can't replicate the problem, he can't really diagnose the issue. In this case, he got lucky and dug into it and found the BCM loom issue. Otherwise, blindly tearing into your truck would have cost the dealership a ton of money that Ford wouldn't be paying. Ford pays the warranty, not the dealership.

And you admit that you've found this was a relatively rare problem. the tech probably has never had to do a BCM ever, on another car, and having to have both keys present to complete the replacement isn't just something everyone knows. And that's including the tech and the the service advisor. Was it an inconvenience? Undoubtedly. Frustrating? Sure! But is it the dealerships fault you had to be inconvenienced? Maybe not 100% And them asking if they cover the cost of the key in exchange for a good survey - I'd have said hell yes. Your looking at upwards of $300 they are going to be eating on that.

I hope it gets sorted!

 

[Dr_Strangelove]

The only thing that surprises me about this story, and this is based on experience with other marques, is that Ford shops don't keep tested-good new model computer modules for the shop to troubleshoot. I know with ze Germans it's usually "We know it's your alarm module because our alarm module works."

Good luck OP. Hopefully now that they're looking at the door switches they'll isolate it.

 

[Cmar]

dated article but might be worth a read - statement saying the Range Rover owners don't care if they are unreliable, probably a lot of truth in that. I believe they are selling well - including in China.

https://jalopnik.com/if-range-rovers-are-so-unreliable-why-do-people-still-1728727599



.

Thanks for that, I read that and oh so true, I replaced my Range Rover with a Bronco ( it was written off in an accident) and my first thoughts were (for a RHD Bronco built in Australia) Oh it's got the steering column, wheel, switch gear, and front seats out of a Falcon - not even a Fairlane, it's got cart springs on the back, the engine is made of cast iron, not a lightweight aluminum v8.

However I went on to put nearly half a million K's on that car and only replaced normal service items, drove it to Cape York and across the Simpson desert. I never had an electrical problem with it, and most things that broke were my fault, and, parts were no problem at all, due to that commonality with other Ford models made locally.

 

[CP0861]

Couple things to keep in mind here. First, if the tech can't replicate the problem, he can't really diagnose the issue. In this case, he got lucky and dug into it and found the BCM loom issue. Otherwise, blindly tearing into your truck would have cost the dealership a ton of money that Ford wouldn't be paying. Ford pays the warranty, not the dealership.

And you admit that you've found this was a relatively rare problem. the tech probably has never had to do a BCM ever, on another car, and having to have both keys present to complete the replacement isn't just something everyone knows. And that's including the tech and the the service advisor. Was it an inconvenience? Undoubtedly. Frustrating? Sure! But is it the dealerships fault you had to be inconvenienced? Maybe not 100% And them asking if they cover the cost of the key in exchange for a good survey - I'd have said hell yes. Your looking at upwards of $300 they are going to be eating on that.

I hope it gets sorted!

Like I said in another post, when the problem was discovered on the 3rd visit, it wasn't doing anything for the tech that I didn't have 50 different videos showing it doing. There was no "code" that they told me they had to have. He simply dug in further than the 1st two techs and found a visual problem. I can understand it can get time consuming and expensive, but at the same time, where does that leave a consumer? I couldn't lock a brand new vehicle for crying out loud. The interior lights didn't work. I should just tolerate that and drive away with it because of the hassle to Ford and/or the dealer?? With that being said, I realize I'm not offering a perfect solution, at the same time, to just shrug something off and say "oh well, this could be a PITA for us to fix" isn't an acceptable response in my opinion. Also, I wouldn't say it would be blindly digging....had they bothered to look at the videos and/or contact the SME hotlines, they would've gotten there.

Like someone else said, this was almost certainly a "rate work" issue. No one wanted to dig, because it didn't pay well and might get complicated. Not my problem. Fix it.

As far as the key for the survey, I still disagree. I'm going to be honest on the survey and maybe it'll help someone else in the future rather than enable the inefficiencies and hassle to continue. The survey is the only way I got any help from Ford. Thank goodness for the surveys.... I would suggest everyone utilize them going forward if ever needed because they DO work. I didn't do a damn thing wrong, so they're not going to hold the price of a key over my head in exchange for a FALSE survey. Just my 0.02.


Having said that, they just called. The new wiring harness came today and has been intalled and supposedly it's fixed. About to leave now and go pick it up. And they aren't getting a MFing penny from me!

Fingers crossed it's actually fixed.

 

[airline tech]

For me, those are things I've already checked. I had a seat issue where the seatbelt sensor wasn't working and a re-seat of the connector fixed it. There were reports on these trucks of smashed/bent pins in connectors. So it's something I keep an eye out for. I can be really hard to know what goes where without a diagram though. I've grown to really hate the "modern tech" in vehicles as it's just miles of wires. Oh well...

Check Ground Point - #202, It appears to be a major ground point for most of the modules and interface - including the IPC, BCM, GWM, Door Latch and Data Link Connector (OBD Port)

see attached

EDIT: I found a more detailed diagram for Ground Point #202, Note all the splice points, I would start at the splice point where it makes the most logical (depending on what specific items are faulting) I'm pretty confident all of your issues are in this specific ground circuit. The problem is where to start? I would defiantly check main point #202 as this is right by the glovebox (mouse entry) point and move on from there.

EDIT: I have added the Oil Life Reset - Decryption and how it relates, I think the IPC losing power, is triggering the Oil Life Monitor issue going to (0) Percent, it's not 100% clear exactly where the memory is held-PCM Calculates it, but it appears the IPC, when ground is lost, the IPC basically is telling the PCM -Oil Life is Zero, so message is then generated by PCM - Oil Change Required.


As far as your Data Link Issue, I think with the bad Ground issue, while you have power to it, you are losing the Data Bus (Communication) Ground tied into the modules, thus ForScan cannot communicate to truck

So, I'm thinking that since you cannot communicate to truck via ForScan and cannot perform oil life reset - untill power cycle (ignition Switch) - at that moment the modules are in failure mode .
Once you cycle power, the modules reset - Don't see an immediate failure and all is fine, except the IPC Data , Oil Life and although you did not state it, I'm thinking you are losing MPG data as well

 

[Glocker]

As far as the key for the survey, I still disagree. I'm going to be honest on the survey and maybe it'll help someone else in the future rather than enable the inefficiencies and hassle to continue. The survey is the only way I got any help from Ford. Thank goodness for the surveys.... I would suggest everyone utilize them going forward if ever needed because they DO work. I didn't do a damn thing wrong, so they're not going to hold the price of a key over my head in exchange for a FALSE survey. Just my 0.02.

Fingers crossed it's actually fixed.

I don't think they were trying to hold the cost of the key "over your head". It sounds more like, "Hey, do us this favor and we'll do you a favor that's going to cost us $289.00."

And as for the rate issue - yeah it's kind of a rate issue thing. Unfortunately, unless a tech follows specific guidelines to fix most issues and documents the process and results precisely, Ford wont pay for those hours. That's not on the dealership, that's on Ford and the process.

What you don't know about the survey process is how broken it is. It works for the customer, but really, it works for Ford more. Your efforts on the survey aren't going to help a future customer, as no improvements will come of it. The service advisor is probably not going to get paid for their portion of the job and is now closer at risk to losing their job (it doesn't take much). And Ford gets to collect their stats. If you're interested in falling down the rabbit hole, do some research on CSI in the dealership world. It's pretty jacked up how it all works.

Seriously, fingers crossed for you that they solved all the issues. Just keep in mind, the dealership didn't break your truck and in many ways, they're hamstringed on how they can diagnose and fix it.

 

[CP0861]

Got it back. As soon as I opened the doors the interior lights came on for the first time that I can recall....and the truck was silent for 45 minutes for the first time in at least a month....so I think I'm good. I'll know for sure in another day or so.

But just for a cherry on top, despite my request they didn't change my oil or rotate my tires.....lol. But if that's all that's wrong at this point, I'll take it.

But I digress....since I've "never fixed anything" in my life, I better stop bitching about the dealers process. ? ? ? ?

 

[rydfree]

Got it back. As soon as I opened the doors the lights came on for the first time that I can recall.... so I think I'm good. I'll know for sure in a day or two.

But just for a cherry on top, despite my request they didn't change my oil or rotate my tires.....lol. But if that's all that's wrong at this point, I'll take it.

But I digress....since I've "never fixed anything" in my life, I better stop bitching about the dealers process. ? ? ? ?

Admit it , this was you , LOL

 

[airline tech]

WLFPIR8 said:
For me, those are things I've already checked. I had a seat issue where the seatbelt sensor wasn't working and a re-seat of the connector fixed it. There were reports on these trucks of smashed/bent pins in connectors. So it's something I keep an eye out for. I can be really hard to know what goes where without a diagram though. I've grown to really hate the "modern tech" in vehicles as it's just miles of wires. Oh well...

Check Ground Point - #202, It appears to be a major ground point for most of the modules and interface - including the IPC, BCM, GWM, Door Latch and Data Link Connector (OBD Port)

see attached

EDIT: I found a more detailed diagram for Ground Point #202, Note all the splice points, I would start at the splice point where it makes the most logical (depending on what specific items are faulting) I'm pretty confident all of your issues are in this specific ground circuit. The problem is where to start? I would defiantly check main point #202 as this is right by the glovebox (mouse entry) point and move on from there.

This would explain all of your issues and I believe is the most logical faulty circuit, although I would have to dig deeper, but I believe that the IPC retains the memory for the OIL Life Monitor, thus when the ground is lost it loses the oil life remaining data
Attachments

• G202.pdf
  176.9 KBViews: 12
• G202 Ground-Splice Diagram.pdf
  222.4 KBViews: 0

 

[airline tech]

WLFPIR8 said:
For me, those are things I've already checked. I had a seat issue where the seatbelt sensor wasn't working and a re-seat of the connector fixed it. There were reports on these trucks of smashed/bent pins in connectors. So it's something I keep an eye out for. I can be really hard to know what goes where without a diagram though. I've grown to really hate the "modern tech" in vehicles as it's just miles of wires. Oh well...

Check Ground Point - #202, It appears to be a major ground point for most of the modules and interface - including the IPC, BCM, GWM, Door Latch and Data Link Connector (OBD Port)

see attached

EDIT: I found a more detailed diagram for Ground Point #202, Note all the splice points, I would start at the splice point where it makes the most logical (depending on what specific items are faulting) I'm pretty confident all of your issues are in this specific ground circuit. The problem is where to start? I would defiantly check main point #202 as this is right by the glovebox (mouse entry) point and move on from there.

EDIT: I have added the Oil Life Reset - Decryption and how it relates, I think the IPC losing power, is triggering the Oil Life Monitor issue going to (0) Percent, it's not 100% clear exactly where the memory is held-PCM Calculates it, but it appears the IPC, when ground is lost, the IPC basically is telling the PCM -Oil Life is Zero, so message is then generated by PCM - Oil Change Required.


As far as your Data Link Issue, I think with the bad Ground issue, while you have power to it, you are losing the Data Bus (Communication) Ground tied into the modules, thus ForScan cannot communicate to truck

So, I'm thinking that since you cannot communicate to truck via ForScan and cannot perform oil life reset - untill power cycle (ignition Switch) - at that moment the modules are in failure mode .
Once you cycle power, the modules reset - Don't see an immediate failure and all is fine, except the IPC Data , Oil Life and although you did not state it, I'm thinking you are losing MPG data as well

Attachments

• G202.pdf
  176.9 KBViews: 13
• G202 Ground-Splice Diagram.pdf
  222.4 KBViews: 5
• Engine Oil Life Decryption.pdf
  457 KBViews: 0

 

[CP0861]

Got it back. As soon as I opened the doors the interior lights came on for the first time that I can recall....and the truck was silent for 45 minutes for the first time in at least a month....so I think I'm good. I'll know for sure in another day or so.

Well, I drove 7 hours down and back to NC for a impromptu getaway - plus a lot of daily driving up and down the OBX while I was there. Everything I had experienced is GONE!! No more "Driver Door Ajar" and "Transmission Not in Park" beeping/alerts, the interior lights come on when you open the doors and I can lock it without it going apesh!t and the alarm going off randomly. It's finally quiet and functions like it should.

However, 2 random things did happen that were new.

On the drive home, I was coming to a stop at a light, and the truck lurched very noticeably as I was almost at a stop. At the exact moment I was thinking to myself, "that's never happened before....WTF is that?!" I caught a glimpse of an alert on the dash that said "Brake (something something) Interrupted." Has never happened before or since.

Also, about an hour after that, I stopped at a car wash to spray off the salt and sand. While I was spraying it down, my lady friend stayed in the truck and said that as I was spraying it off, the hazards came on and then off 2 different times.

More potential bad connection gremlins? Or are there other explanations?

 

[airline tech]

AS far as carwash - Did you have FOB in your pocket while walking around spraying? If so mine does that, except it's not the hazards it's the door unlock perimeter lights triggering. I have also noticed that if I'm in garage by the truck with FOB on me you get the occasional truck wake up, fuel pump priming sound. I think it's related to the Ford Pass app communicating with the on-board modem (as I have my cell phone on me as well) IDK, this is one of the items on my truck that I have to research WHY does it do this?

 

[TOMDEE]

apparently, some of the wiring insulation are plant based and prone to rodent chewing damage, can't imagine how else it would have been damaged

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