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Wax/Paint Protection

LightingBlue

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I see the word clay bar thrown around a lot around here and I believe there is some misconceptions for clay bar. Clay bar is quite aggressive to the paint, and if you do it too often, you'll literally strip the clear coat away. Therefore, you only clay bar when you need it.
Your opinion on this is something that I would heavily disagree with. The coefficient of friction between the clay and paint with a sufficient lubricant layer is equivalent to what you will have when washing the vehicle.

Now, that is not to say there is zero friction. But what you are implying will happen is at a rate impossible to achieve in a lifetime.

Modern clear coats are ~20 microns thick. You might achieve loss of 5 microns over the paints natural lifetime (~20 years) with VIGEROUS washings, dryings and clay bar on a weekly basis. I'll take my chances with clay barring the car and not anticipating the factory paint (or me) to last another 80 years.

Full disclosure: I've worked in detail shops specializing in restorations of classics to show-prep for exotics. The "urban legends" of the mysterious and often-confused clay bar is as broad as it is exhaustively tiresome to dispel.

Back on topic.... If you have more than one vehicle and are planning on doing adequate, regular cleanings of the vehicle, I would highly suggest migrating to the "clay towel" for speed of cleaning and cost savings. Have been very impressed with these products after initial skepticism. And you need to do just as much paint correction after using one of these as you do after using a clay bar..... WHICH IS TO SAY "ZERO". Your vehicle needed paint correction before using a clay bar if it needed paint correction afterward.

https://www.autogeek.net/clay-towel.html



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doug910

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Your opinion on this is something that I would heavily disagree with. The coefficient of friction between the clay and paint with a sufficient lubricant layer is equivalent to what you will have when washing the vehicle.

Now, that is not to say there is zero friction. But what you are implying will happen is at a rate impossible to achieve in a lifetime.

Modern clear coats are ~20 microns thick. You might achieve loss of 5 microns over the paints natural lifetime (~20 years) with VIGEROUS washings, dryings and clay bar on a weekly basis. I'll take my chances with clay barring the car and not anticipating the factory paint (or me) to last another 80 years.

Full disclosure: I've worked in detail shops specializing in restorations of classics to show-prep for exotics. The "urban legends" of the mysterious and often-confused clay bar is as broad as it is exhaustively tiresome to dispel.

Back on topic.... If you have more than one vehicle and are planning on doing adequate, regular cleanings of the vehicle, I would highly suggest migrating to the "clay towel" for speed of cleaning and cost savings. Have been very impressed with these products after initial skepticism. And you need to do just as much paint correction after using one of these as you do after using a clay bar..... WHICH IS TO SAY "ZERO". Your vehicle needed paint correction before using a clay bar if it needed paint correction afterward.

https://www.autogeek.net/clay-towel.html
I don't doubt you know what you're talking about and I am by no means a pro. Just someone who enjoys vehicle detailing and likes learning about it, so thanks for sharing your knowledge.

That being said, clay bar is still an abrasive. Wet sanding with 10,000 grit will still be pretty low friction, especially if you sanded with soapy water, it would be very low friction. But it's still an abrasive and you wouldn't want to do it very often. Therefore, I don't agree with your logic.

I understand that realistically it would be difficult to literally clay bar through the clear but that doesn't mean you would want to apply more abrasive than you need to.
 

16m3

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After paint correction (factory paint job very poor), System X Diamond ceramic nano coating on body and wheels and their glass ceramic nano coating on all glass. Very happy with results.
Product is from element119.com in Connecticut.
Work performed in Beltsville, Maryland at Nescar Garage.

IMG_3659.JPG
 

doug910

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After paint correction (factory paint job very poor), System X Diamond ceramic nano coating on body and wheels and their glass ceramic nano coating on all glass. Very happy with results.
Product is from element119.com in Connecticut.
Work performed in Beltsville, Maryland at Nescar Garage.

IMG_3659.JPG
What do you mean by factory paint job very poor? How so?
 

16m3

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What do you mean by factory paint job very poor? How so?
Very rough to the touch, bumpy. But the worst were tiny bubbles clustered in areas. Body shop said they couldn't get rid of them all due to possibly burning the paint. Also, today's clear coats not as thick as in the past. Not as many layers.
I am not an expert at any of this; just repeating what the high end body shop told me. They take care of some pro athlete's special cars, etc.
 

doug910

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Very rough to the touch, bumpy. But the worst were tiny bubbles clustered in areas. Body shop said they couldn't get rid of them all due to possibly burning the paint. Also, today's clear coats not as thick as in the past. Not as many layers.
I am not an expert at any of this; just repeating what the high end body shop told me. They take care of some pro athlete's special cars, etc.
If you had rough paint with bubbles, sounds like it was defective to me. I would have talked to the dealer first to see what options they provide for truly defective paint. I also hope the "high end body shop" wasn't blowing smoke up your ass to get more money from you. But either way, your paint now looks great!
 

LightingBlue

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I don't doubt you know what you're talking about and I am by no means a pro. Just someone who enjoys vehicle detailing and likes learning about it, so thanks for sharing your knowledge.

That being said, clay bar is still an abrasive. Wet sanding with 10,000 grit will still be pretty low friction, especially if you sanded with soapy water, it would be very low friction. But it's still an abrasive and you wouldn't want to do it very often. Therefore, I don't agree with your logic.

I understand that realistically it would be difficult to literally clay bar through the clear but that doesn't mean you would want to apply more abrasive than you need to.
Well, if you consider sand paper and clay bar to have the same hardness, surface texture and abrasion, nothing anybody can say or do is going to change your mind. I used a handfull of sand and a huge loogie just this morning when cooking eggs so they wouldn't stick to the pan. Same thing as butter, right?

Following that line of logic, these "ceramic" coatings just literally rip the paint right off a car, being drastically harder than glass or sand! OMG!

(Nevermind the concept being completely ridiculous that having nano particles of an incredibly strong material suspended in a filler does absolutely ANYTHING for paint "protection", "durability" or anything really. Ceramic coatings are to 2019 what Zaino was to 2000, a wonderful marketing ploy and a new name/idea which does nothing better than existing products, but which sells by the boatload)
 

395Runner

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+1 For Maguire's Hybrid Ceramic spray-on.

I just went down to the local coin-op self wash and went crazy, put on 2 coats to make sure I had a good base layer.

Truck is GLEAMING my dudes.

For how easy it is to put on, the resulting shine + water beading properties is pretty great.

The cool thing is you can roll around with microfiber towels, and a bottle of Hybrid Ceramic, and basically detail your truck anywhere quick-like without needing a bunch of products and 2 hours.

:thumbsup:
 

BHunted

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Had this put on professionally. Truck was like glass and stays clean much longer. It is a process.... Wash, remove old polish, prepare surface where needed, (remove swirls, etc)... then add this. For best, should stay in garage for 12-24 hrs depending on grade. I started out with Sport. But will have them come back and prob do the 5 year application.
https://ceramicpro.com/
 

RangerDave

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Thought I would give an update after having CQuartz on for about 5 months. The protection seems to be holding up well and the beading is amazing. With that being said I hit the paint with "Elixir" every wash. I will probably get it reapplied after one year. I would add that the light polish they do before the application helps more than anything to make the paint "POP".
20191002_154132 (2).jpg
 

BHunted

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Just posted this in another thread but figured it would be more beneficial here:

I've gone through several products to find the best one. Most suck. First, my truck is black, (I hate black but love it too. Shows everything. Ugh).
And its always in the sun and I have no choice. It's hot as hell here and with the sun, timing is of the essence to get it cleaned and spotless.

So, finally, I got disgusted with the water spots. I put a filter on the foam blaster and that did squat and just made the water drinkable from the hose. They say to get the water right, you need a deionizer and that is not cheap.

So after all the experiments, I hired a Certified Ceramic Pro Detailer....
- First he washes the truck to remove anything on it and with believe it or not, Dawn Dish Soap. I asked why and he said it strips off everything including any built on wax or polish. Then dries it.
- After buffing out any swirl marks, he wipes it down with alcohol. Cleans all windows too.
- I went for the starter package and when he was done, it was perfect. Better then when the dealer had it. Starter package is good for up to 6 months. I wanted to try it first before I went for a more expensive package. Caveat is they want you too keep it garaged for as long as possible so the Ceramic can harden. He told me 24hrs but that was not an option. I kept it in for 6 hrs and the following day, the sun baked the rest.

So the outcome? Water literally slides off everything. Even windshield when raining. We have a lot of morning dew here and with any dust in the air, the dew when drying would leave little dust spots. However, with the ceramic, nothing. This truck stayed clean for just about a week. Amazing!

When I had bird poop on it, just washed it off very easily with the hose. For the upkeep, I wash it once a week with McGuires Wash and Wax... (golden yellow stuff). He said that was fine. Even with that, there are still water spots but they are not dug in like before. When I dry, I get most of the water off with a micro fiber towel then spray the truck with this:
Aero Cosmetics. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TH3FXK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

After wasting so much money on crap that don't work, I was hesitant and bought the small bottle. This stuff does NOT disappoint. It has to be the best stuff I've used. It is easy to put on and wipe off. I don't do water-less washes because that invites problems, but I spray this right on the wet truck, sections at a time and just dry it. Eventually the towel gets too wet. Do not switch towels. As usual, ring it out and keep going because the stuff is already embedded in the towel, spray extra when needed. Very impressed. I will be buying the gallon size when this bottle runs down.
Between Ceramic Pro, McGuires and Aero Cosmetic, I've never been happier...

Links below:

Ceramic Pro: https://ceramicpro.com/

Aero Cosmetics: https://www.amazon.com/Waterless-Ou...4ACNPT218BN&psc=1&refRID=VZZ2Z6NGF4ACNPT218BN

McGuires: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RB2ZYMS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Great towel too by Chemical Guys: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001TZBQ0S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Instead of wasting towels getting soaked fast, I use a squeegee on the hard cover. It won't hurt it. Dry with towels afterwards. By the way, this Aero stuff makes the hard cover look great too!

Silicone Squeegee: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00II5YADC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Hope this helps...
:)
 

Walkeraviator

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I used to be obsessed with detailing products but nowadays I keep it simple .. I throughly clean it then I’ll use meguiars hybrid ceramic wax every couple months and I’ll use p&s beadmaker after every wash to help with the drying and water spots

2BB3C3B9-FA72-408C-9877-BB3B82E78A40.jpeg
Love the bucket. Go Cats!
 

FULLSCALE

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I tried the Meguiars ceramic wax and I can’t say that I’m impressed. Maybe I did something wrong but my 10 year old bottle of NXT2.0 looks glossier and beads water better!
 

Stevie Gee

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I tried the Meguiars ceramic wax and I can’t say that I’m impressed. Maybe I did something wrong but my 10 year old bottle of NXT2.0 looks glossier and beads water better!
I agree. I had high hopes for the Meguires ceramic spray wax since I have always used various Meguiars products and love them, but am disappointed. The finish is shiney and slick, but for me, it left streaks that needed hard buffing to get off.
 

Walkeraviator

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I am going to give the Chemical Guys HydroWax ceramic a try.
 

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