Wait until we go full EV

[Wes Siler]

PHEV and co-existence of gas and electric should be the goal at this point. For the most part, wherever you get your "facts", they're the facts some specific entity wants you to know. Unless you're actually in the business, all the "facts" are Lilley wrong to an extent.




Thats a good one. There's not a production EV faster than our FWD Taurus. I've never heard an actual car guy say this, quite the opposite. Even my buddy who is a driver for Tesla... He refers to them as appliance-like to a refrigerator. All his cars are still gas cars (and they almost all get tracked at some point).

Dude, I am a died in the wool car guy. I wanted to be a road test editor at car magazines since I learned to read. Did that in my early 20s, started/built/sold the most popular motorcycle website ever, and still write about cars and bikes for some big names. None of that is to say my opinion matters more than yours, it's simply so say I really like internal combustion.

A model S plaid, otherwise a boring luxury barge, is an 8 second car in showroom form (yes, I know the caveats). If your SHO is faster, my hat is off to you. There are also plenty of race EVs. Check out this hill climb record setter:

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[yamahaSHO]

Yes, the SHO is faster and at least a 20mph faster trap speed, with the hood acting as a parachute. My buddy did a lot of the testing on the Plaid, which off the showroom floor, is not quite an 8-second car. When he was making many of this 9 second passes, he messaged me saying with how fast the Plaid is, he couldn't imagine adding another 20mph worth of acceleration to it, in the same distance, like the SHO. It's a 1995 SHO and was on a stock crank and block.

When I talk about car guy, I think we are on a different level. I have buddies that write for Motor1, C&D, etc... They're car guys... Ish.

I've seen hill climb EV's. Spent some time talking with Randy last year at Pikes Peak as I was there for track support.

 

[Wes Siler]

As a fun aside, a lot of the tech for EVs was first proved out on bikes, since they're orders of magnitude cheaper/faster to bring to market.

Here's a photo of me riding the Mission RS on Angeles Crest. At the time, this was the quickest production motorcycle ever. A lot of its know how then went into Lucid. The neatest thing wasn't just the acceleration, it was the feel. Without all the explosions and the crank inertia, you could feel every last little detail of how both tires were interacting with the pavement. And that led to immense confidence.

Separately, I spent some time on track with the Brammo Empulse R. Putting 100yd gaps on S1000RRs and Panigales at every corner exit was something.

 

[RedlandRanger]

I don't read all these ev posts or usually participate in the discussion. Here is my reasoning.
I once said to an accountant at a company, "well the numbers show we are breaking even..." to which he replied, "a good accountant can show the numbers in whatever way the CEO wants."
My point being the depending on who the "scientists" are being paid by, they are going to "prove" whatever thier employer wants. At least if they want to continue to collect a paycheck there.
Same with "reporters". Who ever heard a sports reporter say thier team would suck before a season started. They are usually hyping up the team to sell more tickets to keep thier paycheck coming in.
Wasn't that long ago that it was decided that paper bags at supermarkets were bad because trees were killed to make paper and we went to plastic bags. Then we discover that plastic bags are bad because they end up in landfills and oceans and last forever.
People are always going to find "facts" to "prove" whatever way they feel. Much like an account will show the numbers the CEO wants everyone to see.
In another 30 years there will be some new hyped solution and we'll have the same debates over the new vs old.
Be open to both sides of every discussion. Look at things from the opposite view you hold. Don't be so eager to prove you are right. You may even learn something new.
Most solutions are usually somewhere in between the extremes. Think of a bell curve. Use critical thinking skills and choose your own path based on what you think is best.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!

You said what was trying to say - but you said it way more eloquently than I attempted to. Thanks for posting it.

Have a very Merry Christmas!

 

[AzScorpion]

You said what was trying to say - but you said it way more eloquently than I attempted to. Thanks for posting it.

Have a very Merry Christmas!

lol Same here. I think we were trying to say the same thing but our brains were getting our tongue tied up.

 

[Bashell]

I’ve said it before in other threads but I’ll say it again here. The main reason EVs are being pushed is due to the consumerist nature that’s necessary in a capitalist society. Simply, we need people to buy things so that the economy continues to grow. Therefore, it’s in the government’s best interest to convince people that the old thing that you already own is bad and this new thing that you don’t yet own is better.

But both sides have valid arguments. Yes, EVs are far cleaner over the life of the vehicle. But that’s like saying “don’t pee in the ocean. It makes the water dirty” when major industries are responsible for 80% of the pollutants.

The anti-EV crowd also has a point in that:
1. The power grid can’t support a full EV transition that states like California are pushing for.
2. We don’t have charging station infrastructure to support this transition.
3. Average Americans can’t afford EVs.
4. Incentivizing EVs is only helping the wealthy.

Synthetic carbon neutral fuel is the far better solution. Nobody would have to buy a new vehicle. We could use existing gas stations. There’d be no financial barriers to entry.

…but yeah, I feel like at this point the EV solution is like introducing snakes to control the rat problem.

 

[Sharky]

Toyota is taking a different step......

 

[Motorpsychology]

Well I have to admit I was wrong. Did some searching and while the CO2 impact of an EV is higher to manufacture it is made up relatively shortly with essentially zero emission during use.

Classic definition of carbon neutral.

 

[Motorpsychology]

This is something that's going to be in luxo condos but we still have apartment fires in NY like every other day. Many are very run down even in KC. Don't expect to see charging stations at these any time this century. Or maybe they put em in, landlord cheaps out and they cause another apartment fire.

In NYC, folks in older buildings typically don't own cars; ICE or otherwise. Parking can cost half again or more as rent for an older, no frills small apartment. My aunt and uncle lived in a high rise back in early 1963, and an unsecured spot in an outdoor lot for their 1961 VW was $63 a month; $612.93 in todays dollars. As you drive thru most any American lower income neighborhood, you very seldom see a current or 1-2 year-old vehicle; most are 2013-14 or older. A lack of charging is pretty low priority for these folks, except maybe for a used 12v battery or alternator for the Pontiac.
We will have ICE in some form through 2035 and beyond, when CA mandates all vehicles sold there must be BEV, HEV or PHEV; the latter two not needing external charging, and having an ICE included. Furthermore, the last 2034 ICE-only Belchfire Extremo will run another 12-15 years, eventually being sold down to the lowest common consumer living in Budget Town. By then, 2050+, BEVs will be more commonplace, mandated or not, and (very) used ones will be affordable to the monthly rent crowd, and 25 years of progress will have chargers at least as commonplace as gas pumps.

 

[DeathRanger]

I drove 2k miles this month in the EV. cost me $60
wife drove nearly 4k in hers and spent about $110

$170 for almost 6000 miles. that's cheap

 

[dtech]

I drove 2k miles this month in the EV. cost me $60
wife drove nearly 4k in hers and spent about $110

$170 for almost 6000 miles. that's cheap

Had you been given the autos for 0 cost and charging was free I'd not be surprised if someone one here would pull up some obscure biased fact distorting article that claims you are still harming the planet, yourself and others.

 

[HenryMac]

Well I have to admit I was wrong. Did some searching and while the CO2 impact of an EV is higher to manufacture it is made up relatively shortly with essentially zero emission during use.

I've always wondered, in this analysis, do they include all the ICE and fossil fuel powered power plants that are used to:

• mine all the materials,
• reclaim the mines,
• ship the materials to the manufacturer,
• recycle the car and battery when they are no longer viable.

 

[Wes Siler]

I've always wondered, in this analysis, do they include all the ICE and fossil fuel powered power plants that are used to:

• mine all the materials,
• reclaim the mines,
• ship the materials to the manufacturer,
• recycle the car and battery when they are no longer viable.

Yes.

 

[HenryMac]

Yes.

Well, I kind of knew that would be the answer. Got a link you could share to the data?

Trust but Verify

 

[yamahaSHO]

I drove 2k miles this month in the EV. cost me $60
wife drove nearly 4k in hers and spent about $110

$170 for almost 6000 miles. that's cheap

I've known plenty of people that bought (finance, actually) a $60k+ EV to 'save money on gas'.

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