Wait until we go full EV

[AzScorpion]

True enough - but you are assuming gas prices won't go up either - and my guess is that they will. Maybe more than the cost of electricity - but who really knows. One thing I think is certain - no matter what kind of energy you use (gas or electric) the cost is going to continue to go up.

And yes, I'm not advocating for total EVs at all - the electric grid will blow up if we truly did that, without billions and billions in investment. Its a big reason why I like the PHEV option as a really good, transition plan. It kind of gives you the best of both ICE and BV in one package.

I still think the "final" answer will be something different than BVs or ICE.

But the gas tax is already factored into every gal pumped now. Nothing is factored into all these EV's plugging in now. In the previous post you were comparing a gal of gas to the higher commercial Ev and said it was slanted. Well, they (the author) never took into account that there was zero road tax included either so citing the higher commercial charger might have been equal after all. So if we compare them equally I'm betting that electric will be much more expensive and as you can see by these storms this week much more susceptible to outages and people unable to use their vehicles. Of course all we're doing is speculating right now but the reality of it is we'll have to spend billions overhauling the grid and you know who is going to pay dearly for it.

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[BettaRanga]

I'm proud of you for being open to real information.

Doesn’t this make the assumption that zero carbon is emitted to provide the electricity which charges the EV?

 

[Wes Siler]

Doesn’t this make the assumption that zero carbon is emitted to provide the electricity which charges the EV?

No.

 

[BettaRanga]

No.

Would you elaborate? I was referring to this statement below for which I didn’t correctly bring the quote into my last reply. How does this not imply that no CO2 is emitted to produce the electricity charging the vehicle? There are not almost zero emissions to produce electricity.

Well I have to admit I was wrong. Did some searching and while the CO2 impact of an EV is higher to manufacture it is made up relatively shortly with essentially zero emission during use.

 

[RedlandRanger]

But the gas tax is already factored into every gal pumped now. Nothing is factored into all these EV's plugging in now. In the previous post you were comparing a gal of gas to the higher commercial Ev and said it was slanted. Well, they (the author) never took into account that there was zero road tax included either so citing the higher commercial charger might have been equal after all. So if we compare them equally I'm betting that electric will be much more expensive and as you can see by these storms this week much more susceptible to outages and people unable to use their vehicles. Of course all we're doing is speculating right now but the reality of it is we'll have to spend billions overhauling the grid and you know who is going to pay dearly for it.

Dave - honestly - I think we are all going to pay dearly for it regardless...... I don't think there is anything any of us can do that will change that.

I understand what you are saying but by not including that piece of info I think it was wrong (which is why I called it "slanted"). It put the point of view he was trying to make in a poorer light. Just because data does not support your point of view does not mean it should not be presented, IMO.

I will just leave this as is and agree to disagree - I think that any and all information should be presented in ANY article that is supposed to be presenting facts.

 

[Wes Siler]

Would you elaborate? I was referring to this statement below for which I didn’t correctly bring the quote into my last reply. How does this not imply that no CO2 is emitted to produce the electricity charging the vehicle? There are not almost zero emissions to produce electricity.

The motor trend article linked above contains all the numbers.

Again, this knowledge and information are commonplace. If you're not being exposed to facts around EVs, it's probably time to reconsider which information and news sources you consume. Absolutely everyone should be reading a real newspaper like the NYTimes or Washington Post every day. Basic stuff like this is key to being an informed citizen.

The big issues with EVs in America isn't the quality of the product, which is genuinely redefining performance, or the capacity of our grid. It's simply charging infrastructure. China builds more charging stations in a month than we have total, nationwide. The IRA contains some significant funding for this, albeit not enough to entirely address the issue. Once fast chargers are as ubiquitous as gas pumps, most fears of range or charging times will be moot.

But, even in an en environment with limited access chargers, evs can make a ton of sense provided you're able to charge at home. In fact, one can help make you entirely energy independent with the addition of home solar panels. And you can pay for all/most of that depending on which federal/state/local tax breaks, incentives, and grants you may qualify for.

Now obviously there's some inequality here, since you must own a home with a garage, and earn enough money to buy a brand new car and be able to take advantage of tax law. But that barrier is decreasing all the time.

As above, for $50k you can now but an EV Kia that will destroy supercars that cost 10x in a straight line. The average price for a new car right now is $48k.

All this is exciting stuff. Nothing about it should be scary, politically divisive, or controversial in the least. Faster cars and trucks, for less money, with fewer climate impacts destroying the world. Everyone wins, even oil and gas execs, who are heavily investing in new technology.

 

[yamahaSHO]

PHEV and co-existence of gas and electric should be the goal at this point. For the most part, wherever you get your "facts", they're the facts some specific entity wants you to know. Unless you're actually in the business, all the "facts" are likely wrong to an extent.

I think it's also important to note here, that purely from the perspective of an enthusiast, EVs are the faster, more exciting vehicles.

Thats a good one. There's not a production EV faster than our FWD Taurus. I've never heard an actual car guy say this, quite the opposite. Even my buddy who is a driver for Tesla... He refers to them as appliance-like to a refrigerator. All his cars are still gas cars (and they almost all get tracked at some point).

.



As above, for $50k you can now but an EV Kia that will destroy supercars that cost 10x in a straight line. The average price for a new car right now is $48k.

I had to look this up. I found a $70k Kia (the fastest version you refer to) that doesn't "destroy" a supercar (and 2 lower end cars of the two brands were referenced). It's also an SUV and not going to replace what people actually use "fast" cars for. From a stop light to stop light run, yeah, it'll get up and go, but I stopped doing that decades ago.



It's pretty clear your not a car guy. We see things a little different... A lot different, actually.

 

[KJRR]

I don't read all these ev posts or usually participate in the discussion. Here is my reasoning.
I once said to an accountant at a company, "well the numbers show we are breaking even..." to which he replied, "a good accountant can show the numbers in whatever way the CEO wants."
My point being the depending on who the "scientists" are being paid by, they are going to "prove" whatever thier employer wants. At least if they want to continue to collect a paycheck there.
Same with "reporters". Who ever heard a sports reporter say thier team would suck before a season started. They are usually hyping up the team to sell more tickets to keep thier paycheck coming in.
Wasn't that long ago that it was decided that paper bags at supermarkets were bad because trees were killed to make paper and we went to plastic bags. Then we discover that plastic bags are bad because they end up in landfills and oceans and last forever.
People are always going to find "facts" to "prove" whatever way they feel. Much like an account will show the numbers the CEO wants everyone to see.
In another 30 years there will be some new hyped solution and we'll have the same debates over the new vs old.
Be open to both sides of every discussion. Look at things from the opposite view you hold. Don't be so eager to prove you are right. You may even learn something new.
Most solutions are usually somewhere in between the extremes. Think of a bell curve. Use critical thinking skills and choose your own path based on what you think is best.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!

 

[AzScorpion]

I don't read all these ev posts or usually participate in the discussion. Here is my reasoning.
I once said to an accountant at a company, "well the numbers show we are breaking even..." to which he replied, "a good accountant can show the numbers in whatever way the CEO wants."
My point being the depending on who the "scientists" are being paid by, they are going to "prove" whatever thier employer wants. At least if they want to continue to collect a paycheck there.
Same with "reporters". Who ever heard a sports reporter say thier team would suck before a season started. They are usually hyping up the team to sell more tickets to keep thier paycheck coming in.
Wasn't that long ago that it was decided that paper bags at supermarkets were bad because trees were killed to make paper and we went to plastic bags. Then we discover that plastic bags are bad because they end up in landfills and oceans and last forever.
People are always going to find "facts" to "prove" whatever way they feel. Much like an account will show the numbers the CEO wants everyone to see.
In another 30 years there will be some new hyped solution and we'll have the same debates over the new vs old.
Be open to both sides of every discussion. Look at things from the opposite view you hold. Don't be so eager to prove you are right. You may even learn something new.
Most solutions are usually somewhere in between the extremes. Think of a bell curve. Use critical thinking skills and choose your own path based on what you think is best.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Well said KJ! My point was that it seems like Wes is hell bent that his "friend" is the only credible source out there and every other article is slanted. Then he says the NYTimes or Washington Post are a trusted source that everyone should listen too. Sorry but those 2 are ones I run from!

Yes you're 100% correct everyone can slant their numbers to the agenda they're pushing, even his friend. Common sense tells me we're so far off from having EV's take over ICE and they're NOT eco friendly right now. Will they be, maybe, but we're far from it when you consider all that goes into the WHOLE process. Not cherry picking CO emission. On that note I'm out and am going to jump in my gas guzzling tuned Ranger for a high speed run emitting tons of CO into the air. ? Merry Christmas brother!!

 

[yamahaSHO]

I don't read all these ev posts or usually participate in the discussion. Here is my reasoning.
I once said to an accountant at a company, "well the numbers show we are breaking even..." to which he replied, "a good accountant can show the numbers in whatever way the CEO wants."
My point being the depending on who the "scientists" are being paid by, they are going to "prove" whatever thier employer wants. At least if they want to continue to collect a paycheck there.
Same with "reporters". Who ever heard a sports reporter say thier team would suck before a season started. They are usually hyping up the team to sell more tickets to keep thier paycheck coming in.
Wasn't that long ago that it was decided that paper bags at supermarkets were bad because trees were killed to make paper and we went to plastic bags. Then we discover that plastic bags are bad because they end up in landfills and oceans and last forever.
People are always going to find "facts" to "prove" whatever way they feel. Much like an account will show the numbers the CEO wants everyone to see.
In another 30 years there will be some new hyped solution and we'll have the same debates over the new vs old.
Be open to both sides of every discussion. Look at things from the opposite view you hold. Don't be so eager to prove you are right. You may even learn something new.
Most solutions are usually somewhere in between the extremes. Think of a bell curve. Use critical thinking skills and choose your own path based on what you think is best.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!

I've got my own inside stories and this is spot on.

I definitely think electric has a place... An in-town car that is cheap. At the current prices, they're not even a consideration for me (still just a car). I just bought two new gas (one is hybrid) vehicles for less than I was looking at for a Model 3 or that VW EV.

 

[yamahaSHO]

Well said KJ! My point was that it seems like Wes is hellbent that his "friend" is the only credible source out there and every other article is slanted. Then he says the NYTimes or Washington Post are a trusted source that everyone should listen too. Sorry but those 2 are ones I run from!

Yes you're 100% correct everyone can slant their numbers to the agenda they're pushing, even his friend. Common sense tells me we're so far off from having EV's take over ICE and they're NOT eco friendly right now. Will they be, maybe, but we're far from it when you consider all that goes into the WHOLE process. Not cherry picking CO emission. On that note I'm out and am going to jump in my gas guzzling tuned Ranger for a high speed run emitting tons of CO into the air. ? Merry Christmas brother!!

There is ALWAYS that guy.

 

[BS67]

For what its worth.......I'm cooking my Turkey in an Electric Roaster tomm am........and the ham in an Electric oven.

 

[AzScorpion]

For what its worth.......I'm cooking my Turkey in an Electric Roaster tomm am........and the ham in an Electric oven.

With electricity that comes from a coal power plant.

 

[MountainGoat]

The motor trend article linked above contains all the numbers.

Again, this knowledge and information are commonplace. If you're not being exposed to facts around EVs, it's probably time to reconsider which information and news sources you consume. Absolutely everyone should be reading a real newspaper like the NYTimes or Washington Post every day. Basic stuff like this is key to being an informed citizen.

Damn, never knew Wes Siler was an NPC.

 

[BS67]

With electricity that comes from a coal power plant.

Yep! I love coal.....even at Christmas!

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