UPR Products Dual Valve Catch Can Oil Vapors

[TJC]

Tony....when you effectively "crack open" the system you will inherently get a fuel odor with these trucks. Something else...when you folks get cold over in NC you will definitely see a noticeable difference in the amount of vapor you are capturing. At least twice as much when freezing or below. I have a Mishimoto catch can on mine and noticed the odor right away. I don't really get any odor in the cab. Maybe when I open the door but that's it. In the future I would like to have a system that has more capacity to hold the vapor so I don't have to empty as often.

I got the odor long before I "cracked open" the can or removed the can to clean it, etc.

I been doing my own maintenance on my trucks and cars for 40 years. I have repaired my share of oil leaks from all manner of locations. I have removed, rebuilt, and reinstalled engines and transmissions in numerous vehicles. I have supercharged cars and converted supercharged cars to turbocharged cars. I have my own garage out back with a two post hydraulic lift installed in it. In short, I know my way around engines.

I expect the odor of oil when I change the oil or open the catch can.

I do not expect the odor of oil from a closed system. UPR mentioned that you may smell the odor as the vapor moves from the catch can back through the intake track through the air filter box. Theoretically that is possible, but the odor I was smelling was coming from the top of the catch can, not the air intake nozzle on the passenger side of the truck (I have the "dual valve" two hose system).

Take a look at the picture below. Both of these fittings are tight - there is no slop in them.
The left one is factory Ford. The one on the right is the vacuum source for the catch can when the engine is in boost (the Turbo pulls a vacuum on the inlet side when it is in boost) and is part of the UPR kit.

The fittings on the catch can do not seat properly, there is up/down play in them on the can ports, and consequently, they did not seal. And the smell of oil from the can is obviously present on the drivers side of the truck. Both at the tire level and even stronger when the hood is raised and I sniff around the battery and the top of the can. Stronger yet at the fittings.

It is not present any longer as of last night when I added the additional O rings to take up the slack.

Now that I am sure where the problem is, I am going to take a very close look at the plastic locks on those suspect hose fittings. It may be possible that the clips were installed backwards. I have no idea as I have not yet examined them, but I am going to look closely at them today. I never thought to check the the hose fittings as they came custom built. High quality hoses too! I do not know if the fittings are supplied to UPR as a single unit or if they come packaged in pieces and need to be snapped in place when they build the hoses.

All I know is that the odor stopped when I took the slack out of the fittings on the catch can.

The odor in the cab was strongest when air was being drawn from outside the cab and the truck was not moving. All other times it wasn't noticeable.

I will report back on the retaining clips

Tony

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[txquailguy]

When I said cracked open the system I meant when you installed the catch can. As soon as I installed my catch can I started smelling a fuel odor before I ever checked it one time. In my opinion removing the small tubing hose and installing the catch can hoses inherently creates the odor issue.Yes the system is sealed but it still produces an odor. I have not puolled anyone but I’m betting that those that do not have a catch can installed do not have this odor and those that do have the catch can have the odor.

 

[TJC]

When I said cracked open the system I meant when you installed the catch can. As soon as I installed my catch can I started smelling a fuel odor before I ever checked it one time. In my opinion removing the small tubing hose and installing the catch can hoses inherently creates the odor issue.Yes the system is sealed but it still produces an odor. I have not puolled anyone but I’m betting that those that do not have a catch can installed do not have this odor and those that do have the catch can have the odor.

Forgive me as I misunderstood your point.

I still believe the system should be no different than the existing Ford system that it replaced. If the system is closed and there is an odor then reason dictates that there is a leak in the system.

Maybe the hoses used are permeable, but I doubt it.

I am happy with the result I have now (the extra O ring), but I am going to investigate the clips just to be sure that they are indeed installed correctly.

Thank you again for the clarification.

Is there vertical play in your hose connections? When you lift up on them do that move up? I do not believe that they should be moving at all.

Update:

The clips don't look to be easily removable, and I didn't attempt to take them off. So I am going to leave the oil rings that I added on it and be happy.

Tony

 

[txquailguy]

Believe me Tony I was upset with the odor at first. I still don't love it, but I've pretty much determined it's just the way it is. I know I have a different setup than you do, you also have much more experience with car motors than I do. I was a avionics mechanic in the military so I'm not afraid to jump in and get dirty. With my Mishimoto catch can I have two hoses that attach to the engine where I removed the factory line. The hoses from mish come with Ford factory connectors that make it really easy to just push and click. The nipples on the can where the hoses connect have small hose clamps on them that are definitely tight.....my threaded can has a rubber o-ring and seems to be sealed well. So, all this being said, I don't see where I don't have a sealed system. I posted a poll to see where others are at with odor. I was pretty shocked the first time I emptied my can....I didn't expect what I found....now I empty with every fill up. I may go with the UPR setup at some point for more capacity and a better system but I just put on a Gibson exhaust, new BOV, raptor grill, the catch can and I'm waiting on my tuner to be shipped right now. I'm out of dinero....lol.

 

[TJC]

Believe me Tony I was upset with the odor at first. I still don't love it, but I've pretty much determined it's just the way it is. I know I have a different setup than you do, you also have much more experience with car motors than I do. I was a avionics mechanic in the military so I'm not afraid to jump in and get dirty. With my Mishimoto catch can I have two hoses that attach to the engine where I removed the factory line. The hoses from mish come with Ford factory connectors that make it really easy to just push and click. The nipples on the can where the hoses connect have small hose clamps on them that are definitely tight.....my threaded can has a rubber o-ring and seems to be sealed well. So, all this being said, I don't see where I don't have a sealed system. I posted a poll to see where others are at with odor. I was pretty shocked the first time I emptied my can....I didn't expect what I found....now I empty with every fill up. I may go with the UPR setup at some point for more capacity and a better system but I just put on a Gibson exhaust, new BOV, raptor grill, the catch can and I'm waiting on my tuner to be shipped right now. I'm out of dinero....lol.

I didn't realize that the Mishimoto catch can kit exhibited the same odor. I assumed that it was unique to me. This changes my thinking a little bit. The hose on the UPR kit is very high quality hose. IIRC, it was made by Continental and it looks to be hydraulic quality. It should hold up well to this task.

The Mishimoto can connections that I have seen have host clamps like yours, and there is no way those are leaking. And since it uses the same route it should be a closed system.

So if it is not the can, or the can fittings, that leaves the fittings at the crankcase and/or the intake ports, or the hose itself. I initially suspected the fittings at the block for a while but but the odor was strongest for me at the can. I will check the block fittings at my first oil change, when I have the truck on the lift, but that it is still a ways off as I have under 700 miles on the truck.

I am waiting on my Eibach spanner wrench before installing the front coilover shocks. The back ones are on the truck. The wrench was supposed to ship with the coilovers but was not in the box. Once I start that work I may take peek at the engine ports and look for oil residue. However I'm not convinced they are the problem.

I wonder why Ford didn't use the same style connectors on the block and intake as those located on the top side of the engine. They are smaller. I also noticed that the hose material seems unique. It appears to be closer to a metal type of material. I know that it didn't flex like a rubber hose at all.

Anyway, adding the additional O rings on the can ports stopped the smell for me. But I am not sure it is worth the effort to do that on the engine. That was a tough tedious 35 to 40 minutes to get those hoses off. I do not want to do it again. And the new fittings supplied in the UPR kit are going to be a little harder to remove than the Ford OEM ones.

I actually considered going at it from the top by removing the intake manifold, but after reviewing the manuals and looking at the engine further I thought better of it. I really didn't want to tear into a new engine that is running fine and not even broken in yet.

Re: Can Contents
My Rangers are both housed in a garage that rarely sees less than 50F temps. Here in central North Carolina it is usually in the mid 50's-mid 60's in the winter during the day unless a cold front comes through. So I may not see the vapor or gas build up that others have seen. I checked it at 600 miles and it was all oil and not much at all. Certainly not worth removing and emptying the can. I''ll check it at 1000 miles and again at 1500 just to get a feel for the growth rate.

Thank you for the feedback!

Tony

 

[TJC]

Here is my latest update.

The oil vapors are still present, but greatly diminished. If the truck is parked outdoors I do not smell the vapors, but If it goes in the garage I get the scent of oil the next morning. It is much fainter than before and not as obnoxious, but it is still there. 90% less would be my guess.

Tony

 

[TJC]

Back to report after 800 miles of use including a 500-600 mile trip in heavy rain over Christmas Eve.

Before I left for the trip I checked the can and it had only oil in it, and not a great deal. Maybe an ounce at most. The UPR can is much larger than most competitors, so I didn't bother to empty it.

I did not get the vapor smells during this trip, and just slightly noticed them upon arriving home parking in my garage after exiting the truck (not in the cab as before). I mention this as I never smell the vapors outdoors where air circulates much better.

However after about a week not driving the truck I could distinctly smell oil vapors in the garage. Still not quite as strong as before but enough to be noticeable. I do not think it is from a leak per se, more likely from the hose possibly being permeable, but this is a guess. The odor is still strongest right at the can, so I do not think it is finding its way out via the intake track. The reason that I suspect the hose is based upon the construction of the Ford OEM hose. It seems to be soft metal and is definitely non permeable.

Anyway, today I checked and emptied the can. Please recall that we had a very large storm front come though on Christmas Eve, and I drove through rain the entire day, and some of the cells were extremely strong with severe winds and driving rain so hard that flashers had to be used as it was difficult to even see the road.

So today upon removing the can I found moisture for the first time! See the picture below.
6 oz of fluid, 3 of which is water (2 oz of oil in the bottom, and I suspect another oz suspended in the water). I'll know the exact ratio in a day or so as stratification occurs.

So I roughly tripled my oil level in the can in 600 miles, and added the water.

Weather conditions were right at freezing, 35F most for most of the trip. My can was as full as I am comfortable letting it get to, I don't want it any higher.

The picture was taken right after pouring. The bottle holds roughly 20 ounces of fluid. As previously mentioned, I am letting it stratify to determine the actual oil level in the plastic bottle.

In the 2 hours since pouring the contents in the bottle there are now 3 distinct layers, clear water, the oil water mix, and the oil in the bottom. I do not smell gas at all.

I drove 70-75mph on the interstate, and 55-60mph on the secondary roads. 22.5 mpg at 75mph, and 25.5 at 60mph. This on a 4wd Ranger, much better mileage than my 2005 4WD Ranger with 4.0L V6, which only averages 18-19 mpg.

The ring tolerance must really be loose to allow this much water vapor into the crankcase!

I definitely need to check the can every 1000 miles until I see a pattern emerge, just to be safe.

I can see why Ford did not install these as standard equipment. Imagine people not checking them regularly, and the resultant mechanical consequences.

Tony

 

[Racket]

While the catch can is installed in a closed loop of the pollution control system, I expect there is some other access to the crankcase system for atmospheric equalization engineered by Ford that isn't being touched but functioning here?

There certainly is pressure created when the motor runs (I presume why some people install vents in place of the oil cap - not sure that's a good idea yet) but that pressure has to normalize when the truck is off. I'm used to a certain mixture of smells in the engine bay when it's off, just started and running but I guess I've not been overly sensitive to them in this truck since it's the first I've ever bought new.

As for what I smell in the catch can when I drain it, the strongest thing I get I wouldn't describe as gas but definitely a volatile solvent. Might be something that is picked up with the water vapor since there is more than 'oil' floating on top. In the 'look at what my catch can collected thread there seem to be different ratios. Driving conditions seem to have something to do with that and clearly there are a broad range of those.

Piston ring tolerance is an interesting point. I read elsewhere Ecoboost uses low-friction, and the compression ratio is something like 10:1 which in a turbo charged motor I would be keenly conscious of when thinking of driving now.

Seems like Tony is refining the application.

 

[Gixxers]

I had a chance to look over the problem tonight and solved it. I removed the sloppiness in the hose fittings by adding an O ring to the can ports - seating them on the top of the ridge. See red lines in image below for the location of the added O rings. If you look closely at how the hose end seals to the ports, you see that they seal by an O ring seating against the ridge on the port tube. If there is play then the O ring in the hose fitting never rests on the port ridge and the seal is never made. The added O ring took out the play and forced the O ring in the hose fitting to rest tightly against the O ring that I added on the can ports.

I tested by taking the truck on a 50 miles cruise at 70mph, came home and parked it in the garage... No more oil odors!

Bottom line here is that there should not be play in the fitting when it is latched in place. None of the OEM Ford fittings have any slop in them. I checked. Two of my UPR catch can adapters had excessive slop in them, the 3rd one had some slop as well, just not as much.

Tony

What size Orings did you use, could you take a picture of how you set it up?

 

[jblc]

I just purchased this system (didn't install yet), and actually I think my kit also has loose fittings.

Equally interestingly, there's a note in the documentation, which did not appear in the online PDF manual:
"Catch Cans are plumed into the PCV line allowing Catch Can contents to be smelled through the intake tube/airbox. <...> An oil/fuel smell is normal if you don't empty your catch can daily.

This doesn't seem right -- we're expected to smell this in the cab?
Mustangs have a catch can system -- are users really expected to empty this daily, or is this note just to "cover all bases" for UPR?

 

[JesseS]

I just purchased this system (didn't install yet), and actually I think my kit also has loose fittings.

Equally interestingly, there's a note in the documentation, which did not appear in the online PDF manual:
"Catch Cans are plumed into the PCV line allowing Catch Can contents to be smelled through the intake tube/airbox. <...> An oil/fuel smell is normal if you don't empty your catch can daily.

This doesn't seem right -- we're expected to smell this in the cab?
Mustangs have a catch can system -- are users really expected to empty this daily, or is this note just to "cover all bases" for UPR?

Well, guess I won't be getting that one, my wife has a Blood Hound sense of smell.

 

[dtech]

I have that catch can - guess I'll have to make it part of a daily routine and empty it 1st thing in the am, and order dozens of spare o rings.

That's absurd empty it daily - I've not smelled any vapors but the can catches so little anyways I don't believe it's needed. I am referring to blow by substances other than water vapor. If it wasn't such a chore to de-install I'd be tempted to remove it and sell it.

 

[got3fords]

I have that catch can - guess I'll have to make it part of a daily routine and empty it 1st thing in the am, and order dozens of spare o rings.

That's absurd empty it daily - I've not smelled any vapors but the can catches so little anyways I don't believe it's needed. I am referring to blow by substances other than water vapor. If it wasn't such a chore to de-install I'd be tempted to remove it and sell it.

How long have you been using yours? What kind of weather do you get there?

 

[dtech]

How long have you been using yours? What kind of weather do you get there?

probably close to a year now - in Denver many months are low humidity - when or geographic areas where humidity levels are high of course the can catches more - but I would wager it's mostly harmless water vapor - which the pcv system deals with. But on the whole people who buy catch cans are going to say they are needed, I've changed my opinion and don't think they are really all that essential. Know several mechanics who have looked at valves on DI engines with 100k + miles and yes there is buildup on the intake valves but in their opinion it wasn't having much impact on the operation of the engine.

 

[got3fords]

probably close to a year now - in Denver many months are low humidity - when or geographic areas where humidity levels are high of course the can catches more - but I would wager it's mostly harmless water vapor - which the pcv system deals with. But on the whole people who buy catch cans are going to say they are needed, I've changed my opinion and don't think they are really all that essential. Know several mechanics who have looked at valves on DI engines with 100k + miles and yes there is buildup on the intake valves but in their opinion it wasn't having much impact on the operation of the engine.

I would think the mfg would add a can if it were that much help.

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