PSA For you folks that are removing / modifying the crash bars to install bigger tires.....

[JACKSMYDOG]

Absolutely.

Trying to explain this is really the only reason I've involved myself in this discussion.

I'd hate to see ANY of us have to go through something like that.

Yes, ANY of us. Even Adam.

The thing is, as I see it anyway, we all take unnecessary risks. We balance out the probability of it causing small loss, big loss or no loss.

Using tint as an example, local laws say no more than 85% on front side windows for vehicle newer than 2017. Mine are 15% and well into illegal. Small loss is a traffic ticket, big loss is hitting a pedestrian or cyclist at night because the window is so dark I didn't see them coming. The latter, as it is outside the law, and done by me, increases my risk of being personally liable in the right scenario. Still though, they are dark and will stay that way.

Here is a video showing a stock F150 and a 2" lift F150. Lift is not discussed in the same light as removing crash bars, yet if your truck climbed over a compact car and decapitated a passenger you may have liability issues.

Big tires and a lift, will move the COG enough, that if we ever roll, we may well be liable for the changes we made.

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[KJRR]

I guess a question that could be asked here is...
Would an insurance company deny a claim because of "all the mods"?

 

[AzScorpion]

I guess a question that could be asked here is...
Would an insurance company deny a claim because of "all the mods"?

As long as you have a damper all the other mods are grandfathered in. ?

 

[puckdodger]

Several years ago my next door neighbor lost his leg in a crash which also killed five teenagers. Would anti intrusion bars have helped? Likely, to a degree. The motor was on his feet when the the carnage stopped. I will not be removing those bars, just in case a similar incident should occur.

 

[JACKSMYDOG]

As long as you have a damper all the other mods are grandfathered in. ?

Kinda like a seniors discount because TGD are only for the weak and feeble?

 

[Msfitoy]

Kinda like a seniors discount because TGD are only for the weak and feeble?

All this making fun of TGD owners begs the question...who closes the gate? ?

 

[AzScorpion]

Kinda like a seniors discount because TGD are only for the weak and feeble?

Once I got my first senior discount (55 at some places) it was all down hill from there. ?

 

[JACKSMYDOG]

All this making fun of TGD owners begs the question...who closes the gate? ?

Dave was talking about a puller system that attaches to the bulkhead, and hooks on the TGD bracket. After you admire the TGD do it's thing in slow motion, you simply attach the puller and push the button, then stand back and listen to the gasps of joy as others are mesmerized by your tech.

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[AzScorpion]

All this making fun of TGD owners begs the question...who closes the gate? ?

Dave was talking about a puller system that attaches to the bulkhead, and hooks on the TGD bracket. After you admire the TGD do it's thing in slow motion, you simply attach the puller and push the button, then stand back and listen to the gasps of joy as others are mesmerized by your tech.

Just $79.99 available exclusively through K-Tel and Starfrit. Get one before they're all gone!!!

Pretty darn close Jay. ?

 

[D Fresh]

The thing is, as I see it anyway, we all take unnecessary risks. We balance out the probability of it causing small loss, big loss or no loss.

Using tint as an example, local laws say no more than 85% on front side windows for vehicle newer than 2017. Mine are 15% and well into illegal. Small loss is a traffic ticket, big loss is hitting a pedestrian or cyclist at night because the window is so dark I didn't see them coming. The latter, as it is outside the law, and done by me, increases my risk of being personally liable in the right scenario. Still though, they are dark and will stay that way.

Here is a video showing a stock F150 and a 2" lift F150. Lift is not discussed in the same light as removing crash bars, yet if your truck climbed over a compact car and decapitated a passenger you may have liability issues.

Big tires and a lift, will move the COG enough, that if we ever roll, we may well be liable for the changes we made.

There's actually not as big of a difference as I had imagined there would be on that video.

Definitely something to consider. The distinction I would make between the two is that with a lift/tires, yes you are modifying the suspension. But with the crashbars you are modifying or removing a safety device.

Tint, I stay at legal limit. As a 3rd shifter I hate the sun sometimes. But the majority of my driving is in the dark.

 

[JACKSMYDOG]

There's actually not as big of a difference as I had imagined there would be on that video.

Definitely something to consider. The distinction I would make between the two is that with a lift/tires, yes you are modifying the suspension. But with the crashbars you are modifying or removing a safety device.

Tint, I stay at legal limit. As a 3rd shifter I hate the sun sometimes. But the majority of my driving is in the dark.

The mod is at your wheels/suspension, but the safety equipment being is affected from your actions. Bumper, airbags sensors, crumple zones, etc all have their performance lessened in certain collisions.

In stead of your bumper hitting the guide rail/guide wire, your lifted truck climbed over the protection device and sent you over and down into the 100 foot drop.

Everything action has reaction, and unintended consequences.

 

[D Fresh]

The mod is at your wheels/suspension, but the safety equipment being is affected from your actions. Bumper, airbags sensors, crumple zones, etc all have their performance lessened in certain collisions.

In stead of your bumper hitting the guide rail/guide wire, your lifted truck climbed over the protection device and sent you over and down into the 100 foot drop.

Everything action has reaction, and unintended consequences.

I'm lucky in the fact that the state on which I'm registered has no laws regarding bumper height. We do have limits on the heights of both head and taillights. But I'm not lifting anything high enough to be concerned on those.

That being said, you do raise a valid point.

 

[JACKSMYDOG]

I'm lucky in the fact that the state on which I'm registered has no laws regarding bumper height. We do have limits on the heights of both head and taillights. But I'm not lifting anything high enough to be concerned on those.

That being said, you do raise a valid point.

There's likely no laws requiring crash bars or prohibiting their removal. Laws are guidelines, liability and negligence live in the court of opinion, especially when the complainant has been critically altered.

Not trying to beat the point home, just sayin'

 

[AzScorpion]

I'm lucky in the fact that the state on which I'm registered has no laws regarding bumper height. We do have limits on the heights of both head and taillights. But I'm not lifting anything high enough to be concerned on those.

That being said, you do raise a valid point.

Back in MA we had lift/bumper height laws. Here as you can see from the picture we have none. This was at a local car show they have every weekend out in Scottsdale. Although at this height I don't think crash bars are relevant. lol

 

[D Fresh]

There's likely no laws requiring crash bars or prohibiting their removal. Laws are guidelines, liability and negligence live in the court of opinion, especially when the complainant has been critically altered.

Not trying to beat the point home, just sayin'

For sure.

However, removal of a "safety device" would be seen as much more negligent than simply lifting a truck.

I think any court would have a hard time finding a person negligent in the lifting of their vehicle if said person has researched and followed the law in doing so.

I don't think a court would have a hard time finding a person negligent if said person simply removed safety equipment.

Shades of grey, right?

You're not beating the point. You're expanding it. Nothing wrong with that. Discussions like this are enjoyable to me. I like to have my ideas challenged.

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