Maximizing Battery Life

[pboggini]

And just like that it finished about 10 minutes after I posted. It's interesting to me that it says it will take up to 4 hours and mine took just about the entire time.

All radio stations were still there on all three bands, AM, FM1 and FM2, the time was still right too. Not sure what else could be forgotten. I did have to do the window reset thing to get that back to working.

Now it will be interesting to see if auto stop/start starts working again. And, it will be interesting to see what the voltages look like and see if I ever see any of the "regenerative charging".

Thanks for confirming that you left it connected with no ill results. I'll likely do that in the future.

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[IdahoRanger]

And just like that it finished about 10 minutes after I posted. It's interesting to me that it says it will take up to 4 hours and mine took just about the entire time.

All radio stations were still there on all three bands, AM, FM1 and FM2, the time was still right too. Not sure what else could be forgotten. I did have to do the window reset thing to get that back to working.

Now it will be interesting to see if auto stop/start starts working again. And, it will be interesting to see what the voltages look like and see if I ever see any of the "regenerative charging".

Thanks for confirming that you left it connected with no ill results. I'll likely do that in the future.

I clamped to the post on both positive and negative so it was after the BMS system.

 

[pboggini]

I clamped to the post on both positive and negative so it was after the BMS system.

That would be my instinct to do too.

First drive to get some lunch and the voltages were better. Started at 14.1, then down to 14 and then stayed between 13.8 and 13.7 for the rest of the drive. From what those who know a lot more about this than I do that seems like normal float voltage.

It will be interesting to see if it ever gets low enough to require that "regenerative charge". I hope not. If not, I'm tempted to bump the SOC from 90% to 95%.

 

[TJC]

I thought I'd repost this PDF from Ford. I believe Airline Tech posted it originally, but there is enough really good info contained in it that I am attaching it again. Worth the short read!

 

[pboggini]

Now a few days since defulfating with the NOCO Genius 5. Monday, voltages were back up to 14.5-14.6 in the morning but down to 14.0-14.2 in the afternoon. Auto stop/start stopped working. CCA back up above 760 in my morning tests. Tuesday morning was again back up to 14.5-14.6 and on the commute to and from work auto stop/start didn't work. On the way to bowling that evening, voltage between 14.1 and 14.2 and auto stop/start started working again.

Wednesday, I didn't drive it. This morning, voltages between 14.5-14.6.

Voltage display on my USB ports are up. 12.5 this morning where it was 12.3 previously. Little traffic and opportunity to see if auto stop/start worked this morning so I'll know more this afternoon.

I've still yet to see any "regenerative charging" which, I'm hoping, means the engineers took actual state of charge into consideration and they don't just randomly dump a bunch of current into a battery that has a higher state of charge. As I've mentioned many times, I'd love to bump the SOC to 95% if I felt like I wouldn't run into an instance of over charging.

I've also not yet pulled the trigger on the onboard desulfator but will likely at some point. I'm going to run the NOCO cycle again this weekend.

Anyone else out there bumped their SOC up past 75% and kept the BMS sensor? Are you seeing "regenerative charging"?

TL;DR, I think I'm making the battery healthier. Hopeful that "regenerative charging" isn't just randomly done.

 

[dtech]

Now a few days since defulfating with the NOCO Genius 5. Monday, voltages were back up to 14.5-14.6 in the morning but down to 14.0-14.2 in the afternoon. Auto stop/start stopped working. CCA back up above 760 in my morning tests. Tuesday morning was again back up to 14.5-14.6 and on the commute to and from work auto stop/start didn't work. On the way to bowling that evening, voltage between 14.1 and 14.2 and auto stop/start started working again.

Wednesday, I didn't drive it. This morning, voltages between 14.5-14.6.

Voltage display on my USB ports are up. 12.5 this morning where it was 12.3 previously. Little traffic and opportunity to see if auto stop/start worked this morning so I'll know more this afternoon.

I've still yet to see any "regenerative charging" which, I'm hoping, means the engineers took actual state of charge into consideration and they don't just randomly dump a bunch of current into a battery that has a higher state of charge. As I've mentioned many times, I'd love to bump the SOC to 95% if I felt like I wouldn't run into an instance of over charging.

I've also not yet pulled the trigger on the onboard desulfator but will likely at some point. I'm going to run the NOCO cycle again this weekend.

Anyone else out there bumped their SOC up past 75% and kept the BMS sensor? Are you seeing "regenerative charging"?

TL;DR, I think I'm making the battery healthier. Hopeful that "regenerative charging" isn't just randomly done.

From NOCO site regards desulfation , I bought what appears to be essentially a low cost copy ($29) of the Genius 5 and it has a recovery mode - the battery minder stuff that TJC uses is likely much more effective in desulfating. There are now a plethora of battery chargers available that use the lower cost desulfation method, at least NOCO's site explains what their higher cost models bring to the party. Also voltage readings are meaningful but not absolute indicators as it's the power of the charging system that is of most import, you could have a 15V reading but very low amperage , the system calculates the ideal charge power based on multiple factors.

How to desulfate your battery.
There are two basic methods for desulfating your lead-acid battery. Genius chargers feature Recovery Mode (see user guides for all Genius charging steps), which is our built-in automatic pulsing technology. Recovery Mode is an automatic step within the charging cycle, and will become activated during the normal charge cycle, when there is sulfation detected in the battery.


The Recovery Mode step is a great solution for removing soft sulfation, but for hard sulfation, a stronger desulfation technology is needed. Repair Mode (see Genius Charger interface) desulfates a battery by applying a controlled charge to a fully charged battery by applying highly regulated low currents combined with high voltages. NOCO G7200, G15000 and G26000 chargers all feature our advanced 16V Repair Mode technology.


This advanced desulfation technique dissolves the crystalized sulfation and turns it back into active materials again. Hard sulfation is typically permanent battery damage. At this point, recovery of the battery may be minimal, even when utilizing the Repair Mode.

 

[pboggini]

From NOCO site regards desulfation , I bought what appears to be essentially a low cost copy ($29) of the Genius 5 and it has a recovery mode - the battery minder stuff that TJC uses is likely much more effective in desulfating. There are now a plethora of battery chargers available that use the lower cost desulfation method, at least NOCO's site explains what their higher cost models bring to the party.

Thanks for finding that. I had some back and forth with NOCO support and I asked them about voltages and if the device can senes sulfation and I was told "I can't comment on our desulfation process" and "the device will always run the same repair process that takes close to 4 hours and it cannot tell if there is sulfation".

How to desulfate your battery.
There are two basic methods for desulfating your lead-acid battery. Genius chargers feature Recovery Mode (see user guides for all Genius charging steps), which is our built-in automatic pulsing technology. Recovery Mode is an automatic step within the charging cycle, and will become activated during the normal charge cycle, when there is sulfation detected in the battery.


The Recovery Mode step is a great solution for removing soft sulfation, but for hard sulfation, a stronger desulfation technology is needed. Repair Mode (see Genius Charger interface) desulfates a battery by applying a controlled charge to a fully charged battery by applying highly regulated low currents combined with high voltages. NOCO G7200, G15000 and G26000 chargers all feature our advanced 16V Repair Mode technology.


This advanced desulfation technique dissolves the crystalized sulfation and turns it back into active materials again. Hard sulfation is typically permanent battery damage. At this point, recovery of the battery may be minimal, even when utilizing the Repair Mode.

This is good info, thanks! I did a bit of looking around and didn't find that myself and it seems I got different advice/feedback from the support folk there. Shrug. I find it interesting that the page you quote says "when there is sulfation detected" yet the support folks said that it can't detect. I guess I assume that it just does the pulsing whether it needs to or not.

Either way, I think I'm going to take it thru another round and then see if I can convince my CFO, aka wife, to let me get one of the ones TJC has.

 

[dtech]

my yonhan has a repair mode setting and AFAK chargers cannot detect sulfation , although higher internal resistance measurement can be an indicator of a sulfated battery.

thought it had been thoroughly discussed that the risk of overcharging the batt is extremely unlikely , haven't seen anyone report their battery was killed because of overcharge, the charging system appears to have sufficient built in safe guards .

 

[pboggini]

my yonhan has a repair mode setting and AFAK chargers cannot detect sulfation , although higher internal resistance measurement can be an indicator of a sulfated battery.

Yea, I was hoping that there was some way it could possibly tell and that it would leverage that. It seems to me that higher levels of resistance would be a good indicator.

thought it had been thoroughly discussed that the risk of overcharging the batt is extremely unlikely , haven't seen anyone report their battery was killed because of overcharge, the charging system appears to have sufficient built in safe guards .

I haven't come to that conclusion after reading all of this and other threads again. I don't think we know for sure but I agree that I don't think I've seen anyone say they've lost a battery. It's likely that I'm just paranoid. I am interesting in hearing from others though who have BMS and who've updated their % to see what their experience has been. Based on my very limited experience I do think I'm in a better state with 90% and running the Repair Mode last weekend.

Honestly I'd love to hear some Ford engineer say that they took this into account but I'm pretty sure no one will. That one tech writer in the F150 seemed to somewhat sheepishly share some of this info but then one post they talked about not speaking for Ford and it felt like they were worried about saying something and getting in trouble.

 

[got3fords]

I will add that I have seen large variation in the regen charge voltages. Sometimes it will only increase about .25V, and other times it will go up 1.7V.

 

[dtech]

Motor trend tested 2 desulfators 12 yrs back - batteryminder and pulstech, I believe both use proprietary circuitry to generate high frequency pulses, both were effective restoring old discharged batts . Now dozens of chargers offer a repair mode, but I suspect beneath the covers they are similar and likely are designed around the same asic . I thought the NOCO desulfation article in some ways was self contradictory and I'm skeptical that NOCO does much of anything different than lower cost products. So products like battery minder are more costly but probably a lot more capable.

 

[Bsthroop]

Yea, I was hoping that there was some way it could possibly tell and that it would leverage that. It seems to me that higher levels of resistance would be a good indicator.



I haven't come to that conclusion after reading all of this and other threads again. I don't think we know for sure but I agree that I don't think I've seen anyone say they've lost a battery. It's likely that I'm just paranoid. I am interesting in hearing from others though who have BMS and who've updated their % to see what their experience has been. Based on my very limited experience I do think I'm in a better state with 90% and running the Repair Mode last weekend.

Honestly I'd love to hear some Ford engineer say that they took this into account but I'm pretty sure no one will. That one tech writer in the F150 seemed to somewhat sheepishly share some of this info but then one post they talked about not speaking for Ford and it felt like they were worried about saying something and getting in trouble.

I have reactivated BMS\ASS in Forscan and had the soc at 90%. Recently updated to 95% to raise the average voltage and I see around 13.4 and still get regen voltage jump up to 14.7.

 

[got3fords]

Motor trend tested 2 desulfators 12 yrs back - batteryminder and pulstech, I believe both use proprietary circuitry to generate high frequency pulses, both were effective restoring old discharged batts . Now dozens of chargers offer a repair mode, but I suspect beneath the covers they are similar and likely are designed around the same asic . I thought the NOCO desulfation article in some ways was self contradictory and I'm skeptical that NOCO does much of anything different than lower cost products. So products like battery minder are more costly but probably a lot more capable.

When I looked for onboard desulfators, BatteryMindr was pretty much the only option. At about $80 I was a little hesitant, but your assessment makes me feel a little better.

 

[pboggini]

I have reactivated BMS\ASS in Forscan and had the soc at 90%. Recently updated to 95% to raise the average voltage and I see around 13.4 and still get regen voltage jump up to 14.7.

How old is your battery? How long had you had BMS deactivated? I wonder if the close to 4 years of SOC at 75% and me only recently trying to save my battery has it in poor enough shape that it doesn't have a lot of spare capacity. Still, the resistance is mid 3s, CCA is above 760 most mornings.

 

[Bsthroop]

How old is your battery? How long had you had BMS deactivated? I wonder if the close to 4 years of SOC at 75% and me only recently trying to save my battery has it in poor enough shape that it doesn't have a lot of spare capacity. Still, the resistance is mid 3s, CCA is above 760 most mornings.

I replaced the battery a few months ago and deactivated the bms at that time.

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