Hypothesis on transmission

[Jason B]

There are no dedicated sensors in the transmission and 220 is pretty high. IIRC the readings are based on coolant. At least the factory coolant system integrated with the trans cooler is good, but keeping those peaks down would extend the life of the tranny. Conventional coolants boil at around 235°.

The only tweak might be alternative coolants. A while back I was researching Evans NPG as a candidate. In fairness I don't think the coolant in ours adds H2O?



There would be modifications required to run this stuff like a more efficient radiator, purging the entire system of water before switching and altering or eliminating the thermostat. It might affect power and the radiator fan may run more unless there is some way to change it's operation. The upshot is low system pressure and less electrolysis between dissimilar metals.

https://greengarageblog.org/17-waterless-coolant-pros-and-cons

Edit to add: alternative coolants seem overly complex. Specific ones like Evans require significant re-engineering that probably exceeds benefits although I suppose there are approaches that could enhance our Ecoboost in coming up to temp, performing under boost and limiting head temps.

Transmissions have been running at engine temps forever. IMO, that temp is really not that high for hydraulic oils. Hell, I had 360,000 miles on my F150 4sp, did a trans flush at 70K but nothing after that.

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[Big Blue]

Conventional coolants boil at around 235°.

The Ford gold (yellow) coolant is listed as anti-boil up to 265*. I really think your chasing a solution for a problem that you don't KNOW exists for the average user.

 

[Racket]

The Ford gold (yellow) coolant is listed as anti-boil up to 265*. I really think your chasing a solution for a problem that you don't KNOW exists for the average user.

I don't know the specs on the factory coolant but that boiling temp certainly mimics Evans' claims. I haven't found any other Ecoboost forums doing anything more than getting upgraded radiators and different thermostats besides some transmission cooler bypasses for drag racers. Some members here (and the owner of UPR to me) suggested heavier oil but I'm not comfortable with that.

You're probably right although the Australian Wildtrak owners often modify the transmission thermostat so that it's always flowing.

Even the high performance Ford racers recommended factory trans fluid in the 10R80. And some of those motors were putting out more than 1700 horsepower.

 

[TJC]

You're probably right although the Australian Wildtrak owners often modify the transmission thermostat so that it's always flowing.

That entails removing the throttle body and splitting it to get to the valve, and replacing with modified one. Not difficult if you are the very careful type. But take plenty of pictures, and torque properly.

 

[ctechbob]

There are no dedicated sensors in the transmission and 220 is pretty high.

There is indeed a temp sensor in the transmission. Else I and others would not have measured a difference in temperature with and without a PPE pan. It would simply track the coolant.

The ULV Fluid (And several other 'new' fluids) are designed to operate at what would normally be considered 'high' temperatures. I wouldn't be the least bit concerned until you start getting upwards of 240* and I haven't heard of a Ranger getting that high yet.

Also:

 

[TJC]

From what I have read, the 10R80 runs best at a steady 160F-170F. Below 150F it balks and shifts poorly. This comes from those who push the 10R80 to its limits.

I know that this is a controversial statement.

I've considered replacing the internal (temperature controlled) fluid regulator that only opens when temps reach a high enough level, and installing a bypass which lets fluid flow at a steady rate. Fluid starvation is a recipe for disaster to the clutch plates. Once they start shedding, the magnetic solenoids attract the ferrous debris and began sticking.

Here's a video that another member posted on the installation process.

I am still investigating this topic, as I will be exchanging the pan with the PPE Deep replacement soon, and that will be the ideal time to do make the changes necessary for long transmission life.

I am still exploring several options.

 

[Jason B]

What about adding a secondary trans cooler radiator such as this. My 1995 F150 had something similar that came with the factory tow package. I don't remember if it was in line before going thru the engine radiator, or after. I guess you would still need to do something about the trans thermostat.

 

[Jacob]

1,200 miles and I’ve found myself using sport mode in town as the shift are not flowing smoothly.
Big trip to Shasta this week so I’ll update after

 

[Racket]

What about adding a secondary trans cooler radiator such as this. My 1995 F150 had something similar that came with the factory tow package. I don't remember if it was in line before going thru the engine radiator, or after. I guess you would still need to do something about the trans thermostat.

Bypassing or altering the temp the thermostat opens at or leaving it open seems smart to me given the inherent design. Adding an external cooler - I don't know. Where to mount it, the risk of introducing leaks and managing pressure in our trucks seems marginal in the pursuit of keeping the transmission in a specific range seem like concerns. You can tweak pressures it seems through the valve body. I speculated about enhancing the cooling system to compliment the transmission temperature but it seems Ford did a fair job of designing this part of the system - including the transmission fluid and coolant.

 

[ctechbob]

From what I have read, the 10R80 runs best at a steady 160F-170F. Below 150F it balks and shifts poorly. This comes from those who push the 10R80 to its limits.

I know that this is a controversial statement.

I don't think it is all that controversial, but. The reason the people that are beating on their 10R80's want to keep the temp down that low is that it gives them more wiggle room before they start running into problems. If you can go from 160 to 240 that is a lot more useful to someone racing than going from the normal operating temp of 200 to 240. You can dump a lot more heat into the trans and get away with it when you're starting with a lower temp.

With normally driven trucks/cars, I don't think you'd see any change in lifespan from a trans that lived at 160 deg day-to-day over one that lived at 200. You might have some different lifespans out of the elastomers in there, but probably nothing noteworthy. The clutches, bushings, bearings, and drums won't care as long as the fluid isn't breaking down, and by all accounts, ULV is stout enough to handle it.

I also do not think that messing with the fluid circuit is worth the risk. If you are going the separate cooler route, make damn sure you're not dropping more pressure through the cooler than the stock one does. This is the last transmission I would want to have low line pressure or flow. From what I gather from Sonnax and some of the other aftermarket parts suppliers, sufficient flow may be a problem given that they are offering updated valves.

I have yet to see any evidence that the cooling in the Ranger isn't sufficient for its intended uses. Now if you're boosting it to the moon, or towing 10,000 pounds all bets are off. But from the data I've seen from my own truck, dragging around a big trailer here in GA in the summer, the factory cooling stack is just fine.

 

[TJC]

Thanks for the info.

 

[Jason B]

The way I see it, if the 10R80 is good enough for an F150 3.5 Eco that can tow 14,000 and has a payload of 3,200, it's good enough for our Ranger with tow of 7,500 and payload of 1,860. Unless the F150 is doing something different for transmission cooling.

 

[Msfitoy]

There must be a sensor or Ford's PID for transmission temp is a lie...transmission temp, coolant temp and cylinder head temp are all slightly different, albeit all reasonably close to each other...

 

[TJC]

My question is whats causing the burnt clutch packs?
Designed material?
Designed soft shifts?
Overtemp of the assembly and therefore the oil?
Combination of all?

Adding extra cooling may only solve the overtemp condition if it exists, and do nothing about the other two, but still end up with the same result.

So many questions.

According to several 10R80 Transmission techies that I have listened to, the internal thermal bypass located in the valve body actually restricts fluid flow until the fluid hits operating temperatures. Low fluid pressure to the plates will cause excessive wear, and this causes sticking shift solenoids. They replace the stock piece with an open flow piece.

The CDF drum bushing slipping out of position in the pre2023 models also disrupts fluid flow.

I think the failure on the bushing should be enough to warrant replacement.

 

[Racket]

It follows that the clutch packs are going to be damaged so I'd suppose besides the updated CDF you'd likely need those replaced. If you want put the internal bypass in (and don't live in perpetual freezing temps) I believe those are available. The valve body has to come out if you do. Sonnax sells two different pressure regulator valves both are described as 'fixing'

• Low line pressure
• Various shift concerns
• Delayed engagement
• Poor shift quality
• Burnt clutches
• TCC apply & release concerns

(Edit to remove reference to a kit that isn't for our trucks)

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