Hypothesis on transmission

[TJC]

The Sonnax Part is the Pressure Regulator Valve and is located in the red circle. Sonnax doesn't appear to sell the Thermal Bypass Valve.

The Thermal Bypass Valve is located in the Blue circle

The original Thermal Bypass Valve looks like this

The replacement Thermal Delete Valve ( Allows full flow ) looks like this

This outfit makes the part. Video can be found here
His purchase statement follows:
Thermal By Pass Deletes can be purchased threw me by contacting me on Instagram Richardson5.0

Please correct me if I am wrong.

- T

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[Racket]

Is the Sonnax a better solution I wonder than the 'old' method.

I was trying to find more info on the Ratiotek kit for our trucks and I don't know why it was easier to find articles promoting it.

https://www.transmissiondigest.com/ratiotek-tuner-kits-gm-ford-10-speed-transmissions/

Here's a shot from the mfr site - note the years for specific kits?

An email exchange with Ratiotek got a recommendation of using #RT-10R80-PR.

Suncoast seems to have lost interest in discussing what solutions they might provide us as I haven't got any more emails from them after I corrected their rep on which transmission the 5G has.

The Sonnex solution requires removing the solenoid body while the Ratiotek does not - so I guess first wait for your 10R80 to fail under warranty (remember most of our 5G's have the previous CDF drum), I imagine the replacement trans comes with a short warranty (?) then if you desire start changing stuff if it improves the life and performance.

I don't know if we need to get into the Raybestos/McLeod GPZ clutch packs or not and how that affects driving/towing/off-road. It's a you pay for it vs. Ford pays for it proposal.

 

[Grandaccess]

1,200 miles and I’ve found myself using sport mode in town as the shift are not flowing smoothly.
Big trip to Shasta this week so I’ll update after

I do too, for some reason its always one gear higher then what I think is needed, it feels best above 2000 to 2500 RPMs thats where I like it around town, sometimes I dont even use S/mode I just hit the +/- down tap it once to monitor what gear its in and tap - to limit it say below 5 gear between traffic lights in town or in heavy traffic ....

 

[Kristina]

From what I have read, the 10R80 runs best at a steady 160F-170F. Below 150F it balks and shifts poorly. This comes from those who push the 10R80 to its limits.

I know that this is a controversial statement.

I've considered replacing the internal (temperature controlled) fluid regulator that only opens when temps reach a high enough level, and installing a bypass which lets fluid flow at a steady rate. Fluid starvation is a recipe for disaster to the clutch plates. Once they start shedding, the magnetic solenoids attract the ferrous debris and began sticking.

Here's a video that another member posted on the installation process.

I am still investigating this topic, as I will be exchanging the pan with the PPE Deep replacement soon, and that will be the ideal time to do make the changes necessary for long transmission life.

I am still exploring several options.

170F it was last time I checked on mine.
30 000 kilometers on my truck and about last 8000 trouble free.

 

[ctechbob]

I realize I'm probably going to take a rash of shit about this, but I'm interested in the results if someone takes it on.

I've mentioned it before on here in passing I believe, but I do use 1oz per qt of Lubegard's Platinum ATF additive. After discussing it with their tech the worst I decided that could happen was nothing and my wallet would be lighter. I had been using the 'Red' version in my Honda's for a long time and they are one company I trust to 'do no harm'. I'm not saying I load every vehicle up with everything they sell, but I do like their ATF products. I'm not overly vocal about it just because additives are one thing that people dig out the pitchfork and torches for on a good day.

I would be interested if one of you with a trans that isn't on the way out, but sometimes has a hangup or two or some balky shifting would do a 10oz bottle of it. (Factory capacity is ~12 qts so this would be a slight under treat). (Edit - for what it's worth, their recommended dose is double that for the GM 8 speeds with their nasty shudder problem, so 10oz in 12 qts should be no issue whatsoever)

I've been using it at the recommended dose since my truck was new, I tow that heavy trailer and my 10R80 is as smooth as I believe it can be at 42,000 miles. I believe that this is a safe thing to do or I wouldn't be doing it on a $4000 transmission. To be fair, I also vac and fill the trans fluid every 10k (usually that is 4 quarts, but with the PPE pan it will be around 7). So is it that or the additive? I don't know. I've never wiped my adaptives either (I did have the battery replaced a year or so ago. I don't know if they reset at that time or not, I never thought to ask if the dealer used something to keep memory alive when they swapped out the battery).

Now, my theory is that it takes so very little for the valves in the 10R80 to get slightly slow and that a little bit extra help gets them freed up and moving as they should. I'm thinking that things get a bit sticky over time and that the esters in the LG will clean that up and possibly 'slick up' the sliding valves. It wouldn't take much to slow a valve down and cause a clutch engagement to be rough.

Well, I've said it. If someone tries it, I would be very interested in the result

FWIW, this is the product I'm talking about:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002MB57UI?th=1

Standard disclaimer of: I don't work for them, don't receive a commission and really have no other interest other than potentially helping out other 10R80 owners.

 

[Jacob]

I do too, for some reason its always one gear higher then what I think is needed, it feels best above 2000 to 2500 RPMs thats where I like it around town, sometimes I dont even use S/mode I just hit the +/- down tap it once to monitor what gear its in and tap - to limit it say below 5 gear between traffic lights in town or in heavy traffic ....

I tried that and it got stuck in the higher gears ?

 

[Jason B]

I realize I'm probably going to take a rash of shit about this, but I'm interested in the results if someone takes it on.

I've mentioned it before on here in passing I believe, but I do use 1oz per qt of Lubegard's Platinum ATF additive. After discussing it with their tech the worst I decided that could happen was nothing and my wallet would be lighter. I had been using the 'Red' version in my Honda's for a long time and they are one company I trust to 'do no harm'. I'm not saying I load every vehicle up with everything they sell, but I do like their ATF products. I'm not overly vocal about it just because additives are one thing that people dig out the pitchfork and torches for on a good day.

I would be interested if one of you with a trans that isn't on the way out, but sometimes has a hangup or two or some balky shifting would do a 10oz bottle of it. (Factory capacity is ~12 qts so this would be a slight under treat). (Edit - for what it's worth, their recommended dose is double that for the GM 8 speeds with their nasty shudder problem, so 10oz in 12 qts should be no issue whatsoever)

I've been using it at the recommended dose since my truck was new, I tow that heavy trailer and my 10R80 is as smooth as I believe it can be at 42,000 miles. I believe that this is a safe thing to do or I wouldn't be doing it on a $4000 transmission. To be fair, I also vac and fill the trans fluid every 10k (usually that is 4 quarts, but with the PPE pan it will be around 7). So is it that or the additive? I don't know. I've never wiped my adaptives either (I did have the battery replaced a year or so ago. I don't know if they reset at that time or not, I never thought to ask if the dealer used something to keep memory alive when they swapped out the battery).

Now, my theory is that it takes so very little for the valves in the 10R80 to get slightly slow and that a little bit extra help gets them freed up and moving as they should. I'm thinking that things get a bit sticky over time and that the esters in the LG will clean that up and possibly 'slick up' the sliding valves. It wouldn't take much to slow a valve down and cause a clutch engagement to be rough.

Well, I've said it. If someone tries it, I would be very interested in the result

FWIW, this is the product I'm talking about:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002MB57UI?th=1

Standard disclaimer of: I don't work for them, don't receive a commission and really have no other interest other than potentially helping out other 10R80 owners.

Every 10K on a transmission? Seems a little excessive.
Tech used to warn about swapping trans fluid too often, as it could dislodge sediments and cause future problems. I don't know if that applies to todays trans.

 

[Yinzcity]

I realize I'm probably going to take a rash of shit about this, but I'm interested in the results if someone takes it on.

I've mentioned it before on here in passing I believe, but I do use 1oz per qt of Lubegard's Platinum ATF additive. After discussing it with their tech the worst I decided that could happen was nothing and my wallet would be lighter. I had been using the 'Red' version in my Honda's for a long time and they are one company I trust to 'do no harm'. I'm not saying I load every vehicle up with everything they sell, but I do like their ATF products. I'm not overly vocal about it just because additives are one thing that people dig out the pitchfork and torches for on a good day.

I would be interested if one of you with a trans that isn't on the way out, but sometimes has a hangup or two or some balky shifting would do a 10oz bottle of it. (Factory capacity is ~12 qts so this would be a slight under treat). (Edit - for what it's worth, their recommended dose is double that for the GM 8 speeds with their nasty shudder problem, so 10oz in 12 qts should be no issue whatsoever)

I've been using it at the recommended dose since my truck was new, I tow that heavy trailer and my 10R80 is as smooth as I believe it can be at 42,000 miles. I believe that this is a safe thing to do or I wouldn't be doing it on a $4000 transmission. To be fair, I also vac and fill the trans fluid every 10k (usually that is 4 quarts, but with the PPE pan it will be around 7). So is it that or the additive? I don't know. I've never wiped my adaptives either (I did have the battery replaced a year or so ago. I don't know if they reset at that time or not, I never thought to ask if the dealer used something to keep memory alive when they swapped out the battery).

Now, my theory is that it takes so very little for the valves in the 10R80 to get slightly slow and that a little bit extra help gets them freed up and moving as they should. I'm thinking that things get a bit sticky over time and that the esters in the LG will clean that up and possibly 'slick up' the sliding valves. It wouldn't take much to slow a valve down and cause a clutch engagement to be rough.

Well, I've said it. If someone tries it, I would be very interested in the result

FWIW, this is the product I'm talking about:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002MB57UI?th=1

Standard disclaimer of: I don't work for them, don't receive a commission and really have no other interest other than potentially helping out other 10R80 owners.

I've tried the Lubeguard Red in mine at 33k, and no change in clunky behavior now at 36k. If it's making a difference, I'd think it's the friction modifiers in the platinum that make the difference and not the detergent since that seems to be shared in the red and platinum. Or it could be you lucked out with a good transmission.

Just changed my fluid for the first time at 36k, got 6 liters out of the stock pan with a fluid vac and the truck cold and sitting overnight.

 

[SigOris]

I realize I'm probably going to take a rash of shit about this, but I'm interested in the results if someone takes it on.

I've mentioned it before on here in passing I believe, but I do use 1oz per qt of Lubegard's Platinum ATF additive. After discussing it with their tech the worst I decided that could happen was nothing and my wallet would be lighter. I had been using the 'Red' version in my Honda's for a long time and they are one company I trust to 'do no harm'. I'm not saying I load every vehicle up with everything they sell, but I do like their ATF products. I'm not overly vocal about it just because additives are one thing that people dig out the pitchfork and torches for on a good day.

I would be interested if one of you with a trans that isn't on the way out, but sometimes has a hangup or two or some balky shifting would do a 10oz bottle of it. (Factory capacity is ~12 qts so this would be a slight under treat). (Edit - for what it's worth, their recommended dose is double that for the GM 8 speeds with their nasty shudder problem, so 10oz in 12 qts should be no issue whatsoever)

I've been using it at the recommended dose since my truck was new, I tow that heavy trailer and my 10R80 is as smooth as I believe it can be at 42,000 miles. I believe that this is a safe thing to do or I wouldn't be doing it on a $4000 transmission. To be fair, I also vac and fill the trans fluid every 10k (usually that is 4 quarts, but with the PPE pan it will be around 7). So is it that or the additive? I don't know. I've never wiped my adaptives either (I did have the battery replaced a year or so ago. I don't know if they reset at that time or not, I never thought to ask if the dealer used something to keep memory alive when they swapped out the battery).

Now, my theory is that it takes so very little for the valves in the 10R80 to get slightly slow and that a little bit extra help gets them freed up and moving as they should. I'm thinking that things get a bit sticky over time and that the esters in the LG will clean that up and possibly 'slick up' the sliding valves. It wouldn't take much to slow a valve down and cause a clutch engagement to be rough.

Well, I've said it. If someone tries it, I would be very interested in the result

FWIW, this is the product I'm talking about:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002MB57UI?th=1

Standard disclaimer of: I don't work for them, don't receive a commission and really have no other interest other than potentially helping out other 10R80 owners.

I wonder why our DAMPER Snake Oil Salesman does have a similar DISCLAIMER ????

 

[ctechbob]

Every 10K on a transmission? Seems a little excessive.
Tech used to warn about swapping trans fluid too often, as it could dislodge sediments and cause future problems. I don't know if that applies to todays trans.

Old think. Didn't really apply then either. If the trans was going to fail, it would fail either way. usually the problem was they waited until the trans was already exhibiting signs of problems, then change the fluid hoping for a cure and then the trans failed. All of a sudden it is the fluids fault.

 

[ctechbob]

I've tried the Lubeguard Red in mine at 33k, and no change in clunky behavior now at 36k. If it's making a difference, I'd think it's the friction modifiers in the platinum that make the difference and not the detergent since that seems to be shared in the red and platinum. Or it could be you lucked out with a good transmission.

Just changed my fluid for the first time at 36k, got 6 liters out of the stock pan with a fluid vac and the truck cold and sitting overnight.

I did a few with red as well when I ran out of Platinum. It wasn't as good. FWIW

 

[Yinzcity]

I did a few with red as well when I ran out of Platinum. It wasn't as good. FWIW

I'm assuming you mixed the two then when you did the next fluid change. Just added the correct volume equivalent to the replaced fluid?

 

[ctechbob]

I'm assuming you mixed the two then when you did the next fluid change. Just added the correct volume equivalent to the replaced fluid?

Not sure I follow.

I added an entire 10oz bottle shortly after getting the truck. Then afterwards when I changed fluid I would add 1oz to each quart container and then refill the trans with the same amount I vacuumed out. Check the level after and roll with it.

I ran out of Platinum on my 2nd change and used some Red that I had around. It wasn't night and day and it could have well been in my head, but it didn't seem as smooth. 3rd and 4th changes were back to Platinum.

I was only getting about 4 qts out prior to the PPE pan, the tool I made to vacuum the fluid didn't go the entire way to the bottom of the pan, I didn't feel like making another one, and a 4qt replacement, in my book, was ok. Now with the PPE pan it should be 7-8 qts, so I will likely space my changes out to 15,000 miles instead of 10k.

 

[puda]

I've experienced what I would say is shifting performance that degrades over time as well. I put the Ford Performance tune on at about 4,000 miles because of the amount of bogging the engine would do. After the tune, I felt the truck drove amazing. At around 15,000 I started using tow/haul mode to help in the mountains. That worked phenomenally for about 10,000 miles. Now I can't drive in tow/haul mode at all because the downshift from 5 to 4 is so violent so I started driving in sport mode. That seems to be mostly smooth but I would describe intermittent losses of power in the 3-4-5 upshift. And I'm talking head almost hits the stearing wheel type power loss when accelerating from a stop and then it grabs again.

I have also thought about taking off the tune and seeing how things behave, I'll post back up once I get my seat delete done if I decide to remove the tune. I decided to stretch my warranty out to 100,000 miles because of my concerns with the transmission so it's not a real high priority.

Just to bring this back to life, I had a chance to remove the tune earlier this week. So far, it has not been an improvement at all. Next stop for me is the dealer, the issue has gone from intermittent to pretty much all the time.

1,200 miles and I’ve found myself using sport mode in town as the shift are not flowing smoothly.
Big trip to Shasta this week so I’ll update after

How is yours progressing?

 

[Jacob]

Just to bring this back to life, I had a chance to remove the tune earlier this week. So far, it has not been an improvement at all. Next stop for me is the dealer, the issue has gone from intermittent to pretty much all the time.


How is yours progressing?

Well the ranger is in the shop for a new rear axle. Apparently the tone (not an axle guy) broke and the piece chewed through the axle. I’ll update once I get it back and see how the shifts are.

on another note. It had trouble shifting on the drive up to Shasta. Misfit and I talked about it in another thread. Basically got stuck shifting between 7/8/9 and it wouldn’t stay in just one

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