Ford asks dealers to invest in EVs as it chases Tesla-like profit

[LostMy65]

Sorry boss, I'm going to be a little late to work today.

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[Jbrubakerjr]

I was having coffee with a friend of mine this morning and we were discussing this topic as he is in the business and gives it a one in ten chance in succeeding under the current allocation of funds, and doubts he will even participate in any proposals.

With $7.5bn to build 500,000 charging stations thats only $15,000 to build each station. If those are slow charging stations at 240v the margins are slim but can be done if the infrastructure is in place. If they are fast charging stations then $15,000 is no where near the amount needed to build a station and no one would bid on the project for each state and the states will just pocket the money, much like they do with E911 funds already, since there is no oversight or mechanisms in place to ensure that funds are spent in the manner intended.

Then comes the issue on where to build the stations. The states don't own properties where charging stations are needed and will need to incentivize existing properties into allowing stations to be installed, ie existing gas stations, rest stops, restaurants, etc. Each come with unique challenges. Gas stations and high voltage charging is a huge red flag and those issues, regulations, and liability have not been addressed. Rest stops are typically run by the states DOT and over the years have been slowly disappearing due to lack of funds. Any location assumes that there is a dedicated 240v infrastructure in place for slow charging and 480v for fast charging. If not then the cost to retrofit will far exceed the $15,000 allocation of funds. Then since its state run who has access and when, who carries liability and how, and who is responsible for maintenance and upkeep. The model from Virginia assumes that gas stations, restaurants and businesses will be incentivized by the increase in traffic to the location too foot the bill or the state will spend its own money. Imagine trying to sell that ROI to a business owner while ignoring the headaches of dealing with irate drivers fighting for a charging station so you can sell a few more slurpees, jack links, and corn nuts on your already slim margins of profit.

In order for this to be successful states will need to raise taxes to pay for the incentives for property owners where stations are installed to manage the stations, and taxpayers will need to welcome those tax increases with open arms. Raising taxes and local elections are a-lot harder to deal with politically than on a national level.

My guess... most of that $7.5bn will disappear into the states and politically friendly contractors that get allocated funds. Just look at the press release from Indiana. They plan on building 44 stations out of their $100mn. Thats roughly $2.2mn per station!!! A far cry from the allocated $15,000 per station. So call me skeptical that anywhere near the 500,000 stations will be built and or anywhere near 10% still in service 5 years down the road. This infrastructure bill has always been a method to redistribute funds to blue states and unions. Nothing more....nothing less.

Well, I was trying to be a little less political, but your last 2 sentences really sum it all up.

 

[brroberts]

My dealer is small. No way do they have $500,000-1.2 million to invest.

 

[dtech]

Well apparently the current administration will fix the charging issue with $7.5 billion being spent to build out the charging infrastructure (in only 35 states?). BUT - How many fossil fuel generators or generating plants will need to be built to keep up with the new demand on the grid?

In the link below it states that in August all 50 states had submitted plans to build out the charging infrastructure, the article also describes how gas stations in Europe are installing fast charging stations, the $7.5 billion allocated in the US to build out 500,000 charging stations isn't intend to cover the entire cost but assist with the required investment - to allow gas stations for instance to be able to invest and receive ROI over time - just like countless other capital intensive projects have been made financially viable. There is a lot going on towards making EVs viable - both globally and in the US with auto makers and private investments, globally automakers have announced and are making over $300B investments in EVs , and investments in global EV charging is projected to reach $360B by 2030. As history has shown however there is always a good deal of skepticism and resistance where transitional technology is involved but eventually the kerosene lamp was replaced as was the horse and buggy and so eventually will the ice auto, it's happening.

https://electrek.co/2022/08/04/gas-stations-ev-charging/

 

[Progeny2021]

In the link below it states that in August all 50 states had submitted plans to build out the charging infrastructure, the article also describes how gas stations in Europe are installing fast charging stations.

The $7.5 billion allocated in the US to build out 500,000 charging stations isn't intend to cover the entire cost but assist with the required investment - to allow gas stations for instance to be able to invest and receive ROI over time - just like countless other capital intensive projects have been made financially viable.

There is a lot going on towards making EVs viable - both globally and in the US with auto makers and private investments, globally automakers have announced and are making over $300B investments in EVs , and investments in global EV charging is projected to reach $360B by 2030.

As history has shown however there is always a good deal of skepticism and resistance where transitional technology is involved but eventually the kerosene lamp was replaced as was the horse and buggy and so eventually will the ice auto, it's happening.

https://electrek.co/2022/08/04/gas-stations-ev-charging/

you can thank me later…

 

[Trigganometry]

In the link below it states that in August all 50 states had submitted plans to build out the charging infrastructure, the article also describes how gas stations in Europe are installing fast charging stations, the $7.5 billion allocated in the US to build out 500,000 charging stations isn't intend to cover the entire cost but assist with the required investment - to allow gas stations for instance to be able to invest and receive ROI over time - just like countless other capital intensive projects have been made financially viable. There is a lot going on towards making EVs viable - both globally and in the US with auto makers and private investments, globally automakers have announced and are making over $300B investments in EVs , and investments in global EV charging is projected to reach $360B by 2030. As history has shown however there is always a good deal of skepticism and resistance where transitional technology is involved but eventually the kerosene lamp was replaced as was the horse and buggy and so eventually will the ice auto, it's happening.

https://electrek.co/2022/08/04/gas-stations-ev-charging/

When we can't get natural gas pipelines approved and built then this point is pretty moot! I call it pipe dreams as you can talk all you want, making it happen is another story entirely!

 

[Motorpsychology]

His comment has some Potential

He should be inducted into the Ranger5G Hall of fame. He'd get no resistance from me

 

[SigOris]

He should be inducted into the Ranger5G Hall of fame. He'd get no resistance from me

CURRENTLY many would support you ?

 

[SigOris]

When we can't get natural gas pipelines approved and built then this point is pretty moot! I call it pipe dreams as you can talk all you want, making it happen is another story entirely!

How about ‘ The Corridor ‘ thru Maine to bring clean electricity from Canada ??

 

[Motorpsychology]

CURRENTLY many would support you ?

Ohm my God, I hadn't thought of that!

 

[SigOris]

Ohm my God, I hadn't thought of that!

I’m an EE, WATTS not to enjoy about this thread ?

 

[peterson1604]

Well apparently the current administration will fix the charging issue with $7.5 billion being spent to build out the charging infrastructure (in only 35 states?). BUT - How many fossil fuel generators or generating plants will need to be built to keep up with the new demand on the grid?

Nuclear is the answer but to many tree huggers are against them.

 

[peterson1604]

In the link below it states that in August all 50 states had submitted plans to build out the charging infrastructure, the article also describes how gas stations in Europe are installing fast charging stations, the $7.5 billion allocated in the US to build out 500,000 charging stations isn't intend to cover the entire cost but assist with the required investment - to allow gas stations for instance to be able to invest and receive ROI over time - just like countless other capital intensive projects have been made financially viable. There is a lot going on towards making EVs viable - both globally and in the US with auto makers and private investments, globally automakers have announced and are making over $300B investments in EVs , and investments in global EV charging is projected to reach $360B by 2030. As history has shown however there is always a good deal of skepticism and resistance where transitional technology is involved but eventually the kerosene lamp was replaced as was the horse and buggy and so eventually will the ice auto, it's happening.

https://electrek.co/2022/08/04/gas-stations-ev-charging/

Spot on, ICE vehicles will be old news in 10 years as there is no stopping the conversion to EV vehicles. Additionally Tesla is building their own charging system which is superior to everything else available. In two years the Tesla Model Y will be the number one selling vehicle in the world. The US has reached a critical tipping point with EV purchases and they sales are going to double yearly for at least 4 years. That will put EV sales at over 60% of all vehicle sales by 2026. By 2030 Tesla alone will sell 20 million cars per year. Some of you may not want to hear this but you may have bought your last ICE vehicle and you'd be crazy to buy a new one right now because their value is going to crash significantly in the next 2 to 3 years.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...s-reach-key-milestone?leadSource=uverify wall

https://insideevs.com/news/602829/tesla-modely-best-selling/

 

[Rinn69]

Just my thoughts. What is the ROI the dealers are going to get ? The ability to sell Ford electric vehicles ? How much of a profit will they make for each one sold ?
Personally, I think Ford is trying to get "investors" so Ford won't get stuck with such a big bill from R&D. The powers that be want everything NOW, and don't want to wait for things to be properly and scientifically tested and designed, so we could make the most of what we have....they are doing it all for votes and not to "save the earth".
I read that in 70 years, we will have mined all the lithium on earth (on land)...and how much pollution will that mining produce ?
https://www.zdnet.com/article/are-we-in-danger-of-running-out-of-lithium-for-rechargeable-batteries/

Will it really be worth it ???

 

[Progeny2021]

The ‘nightmare’ continues. Just like an Alfred Hitchcock movie. ?
https://en-volve.com/2022/09/15/tes...ut-of-car-until-paying-26000-for-new-battery/

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