ENGINE STUDDER

[JaysOnTheEDGE]

ChiefQM what dealer did you try? I've had good luck with Walker Ford

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[ChiefQM]

ChiefQM what dealer did you try? I've had good luck with Walker Ford

Sadly, that was where I bought it and where I took it. I did not let on that I am a former mech.

 

[ChiefQM]

Hi Bill,

The TSB you indicated to the dealer is the correct one for Ranger....Therefore, you need another dealer and this TSB reflash should be done to see if it fixes this problem or at least improves it. What you are describing is not start up shudder which comes and goes quickly on initial start up. You have a different sort of condition and may be driveline related or powertrain related. What the Dealer Tech should do is use their vibration diagnostic tools and process to help narrow this down. Hard to say where this source of excitation is originating from. Since this was used vehicle, were there any mods of which you are aware? Are the wheels/tires OEM?

If I had to shoot from the hip (I am a lousy shot), I think you may find a U Joint in the driveshaft is defective...We have has similar problems that were tracked to a U Joint being tight due to a roller being dislodged and trapped by the U Joint cap. Normally this is fairly easy to pull the driveshaft and when laying on the workbench, move each joint through its range of motion. If any joint shows sticking or high efforts....replace that U joint.

The other thing is the driveshaft could have thrown a weight as they are spot welded on to the shaft. Inspecting the driveshaft should show an outline where a suspect weight was thrown, but not always. There is a process you can do wrt driveline imbalance. Get two hose clamps (we call them tangential screw clamps) and install on the driveshaft near the rear axle companion flange with the clamp heads side by side. Mark the clamp head location on the driveshaft with a Sharpe pen, piece of blue tape or what ever. Now drive the vehicle....Probably will be worse. Now clock the pair of clamps around the driveshaft about like a clock, starting at 12, then to 1 and then to 2 and so on, Drive and evaluate at each position noting better or worse from the 12 position. Mark each locaton and make the 12 starting location unique so you know where you are in this process At each mark for clamp head position, note with a B or a W Better or Worse....Okay you now have clocked the twin clamp heads around the driveshaft and are ready to relocate to the location that was best....now here is the fine tuning. When at the best location move the clamp heads equal distance, one head clockwise and one clamp counter clockwise. Evaluate if getting better, move each clamp in its direction equal distance again. You should fine tune to the point of achieving balance. If the clamps are 180° apart....you just wasted your time as the driveshaft is not the problem..... I have used this process with very good success several times when on the road development away from my NVH equipment. Takes all day but what the hey!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Hi Phil,

I am taking my Ranger in to the dealer on Tuesday and want to be armed with as much info as possible before I go. I read in another thread where there was concern about the driveshaft being out of phase. I crawled under the truck, and using the photos in the other thread as a guide, my rear shaft appears to be out of phase by about the same amount as the one in the other thread. The front shaft is apparently in phase. It appears there are a fair amount of weights on there and I didn't find any places where any had come off.

I saw parts identification stickers on both shafts, along with a yellow dot with two lines on it. The stickers were spotless, and begs the question, has someone already replaced them? How could I find out? The vehicle has been in service for 7 months and has just over 13K miles on it.

I did not find any places where missing weights might have been. Should I say anything to the service writer about the driveshaft? I intend to make him drive it so he can experience the absolute joy himself. Is my description of the ride being jerky accurate enough to guide them to the problem.

Thanks again.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Hi Phil,

I am taking my Ranger in to the dealer on Tuesday and want to be armed with as much info as possible before I go. I read in another thread where there was concern about the driveshaft being out of phase. I crawled under the truck, and using the photos in the other thread as a guide, my rear shaft appears to be out of phase by about the same amount as the one in the other thread. The front shaft is apparently in phase. It appears there are a fair amount of weights on there and I didn't find any places where any had come off.

I saw parts identification stickers on both shafts, along with a yellow dot with two lines on it. The stickers were spotless, and begs the question, has someone already replaced them? How could I find out? The vehicle has been in service for 7 months and has just over 13K miles on it.

I did not find any places where missing weights might have been. Should I say anything to the service writer about the driveshaft? I intend to make him drive it so he can experience the absolute joy himself. Is my description of the ride being jerky accurate enough to guide them to the problem.

Thanks again.

Hi Bill,

Unfortunatly your description is much too vague for the Tech or Service writer to diagnose. Sort of like you visit the doctor and say "I have a pain".... What I advise is to really do a mind dump on the service writer, being as accurate as you can to help radar in on the suspected problem. You do not need to say the driveshaft is the problem as it may or may not be the problem. Describe what you experience in detail. "I am at a stop light in heavy traffic when I start to move, there is a very noticeable shaking of the vehicle until I reach a speed of 20 mph" helps a service writer or tech. Does this occur when the engine is cold or hot or both? The techs have instrumentation that can help them trace the excitation source and you might suggest that these instruments be used for diagnosis. If you focus on the driveshaft for example...you give them an out to say it is normal and they all do this.

When I have been dispatched to a dealership with a complaint vehicle, it is very hard to pry the info from customers as they do not deal in engineering or technical terms in most cases, so I ask tons of questions. Normally this will direct me to the root cause....not all service writers are skilled unfortunately so it helps to give them as much info as possible. Does it happen on the same road every day for example in the same place?

Hopefully you get my drift. The ride being jerky could be wheel balance, driveshaft related, rear suspension or front suspension related, tire pressure related etc...way too vague, eh?

Good luck!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[ChiefQM]

Hi Phil,

I took the Ranger back in to the same dealer last Tuesday 21 July. The service manger had called me and was concerned (about the feedback I gave them on the survey, anyway) and he met me on the service driveway. He drove the vehicle with me along to helpfully point out the issue, in case he didn't notice it, and his first comment was, "Oh, I see what you mean." That should rule out the "could not duplicate" defense. I did not give him any specific items I thought might be causing it, but I did mention I was aware of the two TSBs for the vehicle. He seemed to think that reprogramming the transmission might cure it.

I also mentioned the 1/2'' sag on the driver's side of the vehicle as viewed in the back. He professed ignorance of that, and I told him it was a known issue. And that there was a 1/2" shim that was placed on the left rear leaf spring to cure it.

I told them I didn't want the truck back until it was fixed. They gave me a loaner Ranger (that also behaves the same way below 25 mph) and sent me on my way.

It is now Friday afternoon and I haven't heard back from the dealer. I have asked for an update. I am torn between driving over there and seeing if it is jut parked out back, or if they are actually working on it. Perhaps I am not getting it back, who knows.

Bill

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Hi Phil,

I took the Ranger back in to the same dealer last Tuesday 21 July. The service manger had called me and was concerned (about the feedback I gave them on the survey, anyway) and he met me on the service driveway. He drove the vehicle with me along to helpfully point out the issue, in case he didn't notice it, and his first comment was, "Oh, I see what you mean." That should rule out the "could not duplicate" defense. I did not give him any specific items I thought might be causing it, but I did mention I was aware of the two TSBs for the vehicle. He seemed to think that reprogramming the transmission might cure it.

I also mentioned the 1/2'' sag on the driver's side of the vehicle as viewed in the back. He professed ignorance of that, and I told him it was a known issue. And that there was a 1/2" shim that was placed on the left rear leaf spring to cure it.

I told them I didn't want the truck back until it was fixed. They gave me a loaner Ranger (that also behaves the same way below 25 mph) and sent me on my way.

It is now Friday afternoon and I haven't heard back from the dealer. I have asked for an update. I am torn between driving over there and seeing if it is jut parked out back, or if they are actually working on it. Perhaps I am not getting it back, who knows.

Bill

Hi Bill,

In a way encouraging news that they Service Mgr picked up on the issue and hopefully he will review the TSBs. It could be that you would find your Truck parked awaiting parts. Maybe a status call to the Service manager on where they are with your truck. Hopefully you can drive the fixed truck with him to verify fixed conditions. Glad your poor review sparked some response out of the dealer.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[ChiefQM]

Hi Bill,

In a way encouraging news that they Service Mgr picked up on the issue and hopefully he will review the TSBs. It could be that you would find your Truck parked awaiting parts. Maybe a status call to the Service manager on where they are with your truck. Hopefully you can drive the fixed truck with him to verify fixed conditions. Glad your poor review sparked some response out of the dealer.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Phil,

As stated in the above note, I took the truck back to the Walker Ford, as they were concerned about bad feedback I had given them. I was given a rental vehicle as a loaner and was anxiously waiting a status update. On July 27 at 9:06 am, I received a call from Ryan Holcomb, the Service Drive Manager (translates to head service writer), who told me the truck was finished and was ready to be picked up. He stated that "All the computers have been reprogramed." I asked if he had driven it, and he said he had not but would do so. I didn't receive any further calls from him (or anyone else at the dealer) and when I presented myself at 12:45 pm, Holcomb met me and told me the truck was NOT ready to be picked up. He said that the shop foreman and one of the dealer principals was going to drive the vehicle. I returned home. I attempted to call him that day and twice the next day, each time leaving him a message. I also called the service manager, Vince Romano, twice during that period of time trying to get a status update, and did not get a call back from him. Today, I called the Romano's number and, mirable dictu, he answered. He did not care to speak with me, but handed me back off to Holcomb. Holcomb told me that he had gone as far as he could on the truck. He stated that the tech found the operation normal, as he did with the lean at the left rear of the bed. I asked him to drive it again, as I was not going to take it back if it was not repaired. He called back about 30 minutes later and stated that it drove normally without the bucking and jerking that he experienced on the drive I had with him. 30 minutes later, I picked it up. I read the RO and saw that the tech had run a diagnostic, no codes, checked fluid level and condition, roadtest with shop foreman, compare to like vehcle, normal operation." Holcomb lied to me, they didn't reprogram a thing. He told me I could bring it back for a road test with the shop foreman. I replied that I had owned the Ranger about 44 days, and that it sat there for 10 days while they essentially did nothing to it. He admitted that. I then told him there was very little chance I would bring the vehicle back to Walker ever again. On the way back, the vehicle behaved exactly like it did before I took it to them, 10 days before. On a whim, on a city street with a 35 mph speed limit, I shifted to sport mode and aggressively ran through gears 1 - 7, staying within the speed limit and noticed no shaking. At the first light, I shifted back to Drive and did not feel the same shaking before I had shifted to Sport.

Any thoughts on that??

* I will post of my experience with the leaning issue on that thread. *

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Phil,

As stated in the above note, I took the truck back to the Walker Ford, as they were concerned about bad feedback I had given them. I was given a rental vehicle as a loaner and was anxiously waiting a status update. On July 27 at 9:06 am, I received a call from Ryan Holcomb, the Service Drive Manager (translates to head service writer), who told me the truck was finished and was ready to be picked up. He stated that "All the computers have been reprogramed." I asked if he had driven it, and he said he had not but would do so. I didn't receive any further calls from him (or anyone else at the dealer) and when I presented myself at 12:45 pm, Holcomb met me and told me the truck was NOT ready to be picked up. He said that the shop foreman and one of the dealer principals was going to drive the vehicle. I returned home. I attempted to call him that day and twice the next day, each time leaving him a message. I also called the service manager, Vince Romano, twice during that period of time trying to get a status update, and did not get a call back from him. Today, I called the Romano's number and, mirable dictu, he answered. He did not care to speak with me, but handed me back off to Holcomb. Holcomb told me that he had gone as far as he could on the truck. He stated that the tech found the operation normal, as he did with the lean at the left rear of the bed. I asked him to drive it again, as I was not going to take it back if it was not repaired. He called back about 30 minutes later and stated that it drove normally without the bucking and jerking that he experienced on the drive I had with him. 30 minutes later, I picked it up. I read the RO and saw that the tech had run a diagnostic, no codes, checked fluid level and condition, roadtest with shop foreman, compare to like vehcle, normal operation." Holcomb lied to me, they didn't reprogram a thing. He told me I could bring it back for a road test with the shop foreman. I replied that I had owned the Ranger about 44 days, and that it sat there for 10 days while they essentially did nothing to it. He admitted that. I then told him there was very little chance I would bring the vehicle back to Walker ever again. On the way back, the vehicle behaved exactly like it did before I took it to them, 10 days before. On a whim, on a city street with a 35 mph speed limit, I shifted to sport mode and aggressively ran through gears 1 - 7, staying within the speed limit and noticed no shaking. At the first light, I shifted back to Drive and did not feel the same shaking before I had shifted to Sport.

Any thoughts on that??

* I will post of my experience with the leaning issue on that thread. *

Hi Bill,

It is my opinion that your agressive driving was able to result in a neutralization of the driveline that freed up a bound up condition that was present upon assembly of your truck.... Now the tough spot if this is true. Something on the driveline is not tight. Likely a loose center bearing attachment or the exhaust system. It would not be my first experience where something like you did resulted in a remedy... The engineer in me worries that this is not understood and might recur. Clearly you need a new dealership if the malady recurs. We, at Ford, called this a hoist fix. Raise it up on the hoist. Do nothing but let it back down and Volia! Fixed.

My SWAG is that you neutralized the powertrain and the problem was a bound up powertrain. JMO! There are 5000 parts roughly in a vehicle, one of which can "revolt".... Welcome to my world of those maladies that remain not understood. Most maladies like this are powertrain related and many are exhaust related.

Glad to hear it is now performing satisfactorily!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[rushranger2020]

Hi Bill.

Hi Bill,

It is my opinion that your agressive driving was able to result in a neutralization of the driveline that freed up a bound up condition that was present upon assembly of your truck.... Now the tough spot if this is true. Something on the driveline is not tight. Likely a loose center bearing attachment or the exhaust system. It would not be my first experience where something like you did resulted in a remedy... The engineer in me worries that this is not understood and might recur. Clearly you need a new dealership if the malady recurs. We, at Ford, called this a hoist fix. Raise it up on the hoist. Do nothing but let it back down and Volia! Fixed.

My SWAG is that you neutralized the powertrain and the problem was a bound up powertrain. JMO! There are 5000 parts roughly in a vehicle, one of which can "revolt".... Welcome to my world of those maladies that remain not understood. Most maladies like this are powertrain related and many are exhaust related.

Glad to hear it is now performing satisfactorily!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Phil,

As stated in the above note, I took the truck back to the Walker Ford, as they were concerned about bad feedback I had given them. I was given a rental vehicle as a loaner and was anxiously waiting a status update. On July 27 at 9:06 am, I received a call from Ryan Holcomb, the Service Drive Manager (translates to head service writer), who told me the truck was finished and was ready to be picked up. He stated that "All the computers have been reprogramed." I asked if he had driven it, and he said he had not but would do so. I didn't receive any further calls from him (or anyone else at the dealer) and when I presented myself at 12:45 pm, Holcomb met me and told me the truck was NOT ready to be picked up. He said that the shop foreman and one of the dealer principals was going to drive the vehicle. I returned home. I attempted to call him that day and twice the next day, each time leaving him a message. I also called the service manager, Vince Romano, twice during that period of time trying to get a status update, and did not get a call back from him. Today, I called the Romano's number and, mirable dictu, he answered. He did not care to speak with me, but handed me back off to Holcomb. Holcomb told me that he had gone as far as he could on the truck. He stated that the tech found the operation normal, as he did with the lean at the left rear of the bed. I asked him to drive it again, as I was not going to take it back if it was not repaired. He called back about 30 minutes later and stated that it drove normally without the bucking and jerking that he experienced on the drive I had with him. 30 minutes later, I picked it up. I read the RO and saw that the tech had run a diagnostic, no codes, checked fluid level and condition, roadtest with shop foreman, compare to like vehcle, normal operation." Holcomb lied to me, they didn't reprogram a thing. He told me I could bring it back for a road test with the shop foreman. I replied that I had owned the Ranger about 44 days, and that it sat there for 10 days while they essentially did nothing to it. He admitted that. I then told him there was very little chance I would bring the vehicle back to Walker ever again. On the way back, the vehicle behaved exactly like it did before I took it to them, 10 days before. On a whim, on a city street with a 35 mph speed limit, I shifted to sport mode and aggressively ran through gears 1 - 7, staying within the speed limit and noticed no shaking. At the first light, I shifted back to Drive and did not feel the same shaking before I had shifted to Sport.

Any thoughts on that??

* I will post of my experience with the leaning issue on that thread. *

Hi Bill, I have the exact same issue. I bought my Fx4 lariat at Brandon. Same about 45 days only 400 miles took mine back several times long story short they just say it's a characteristic of Rangers. . If i wanted to trade it on f150 I loose 11k. I tried your shifting in sport mode no luck when its back in normal drive.
Talking with a few others who have 2020 Rangers some do it some don't. Dealers know this. Good luck.

 

[ChiefQM]

Hi Bill.


Hi Bill, I have the exact same issue. I bought my Fx4 lariat at Brandon. Same about 45 days only 400 miles took mine back several times long story short they just say it's a characteristic of Rangers. . If i wanted to trade it on f150 I loose 11k. I tried your shifting in sport mode no luck when its back in normal drive.
Talking with a few others who have 2020 Rangers some do it some don't. Dealers know this. Good luck.

Please let me know if you find a fix. I will do likewise.

 

[ChiefQM]

This afternoon, the issue came back with a vengeance. At anything more than a very soft acceleration from stop, it rides like I am on a washboard road up to about 45 mph, both in Drive and in Sport mode. I contacted Ford and am chatting with a customer service rep right now. I am cautiously optimistic, and will keep you posted.

 

[ChiefQM]

This afternoon, the issue came back with a vengeance. At anything more than a very soft acceleration from stop, it rides like I am on a washboard road up to about 45 mph, both in Drive and in Sport mode. I contacted Ford and am chatting with a customer service rep right now. I am cautiously optimistic, and will keep you posted.

I opened a case with Ford and they have escalated it, I am getting a different dealership. Fingers crossed, will keep you posted.

 

[rushranger2020]

I hope it works out better for you. I contacted Ford reps. They put me off kept saying they'll get back to me. I had to get back to them. After a few months they pretty much said it's not a know issue they have to go by what the dealership service department tells them. Nothing they can do for me and they denied a buy back.
I was a Toyota guy for 35yrs wanted to buy American. Regret it now Toyota never treated us this way.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

I hope it works out better for you. I contacted Ford reps. They put me off kept saying they'll get back to me. I had to get back to them. After a few months they pretty much said it's not a know issue they have to go by what the dealership service department tells them. Nothing they can do for me and they denied a buy back.
I was a Toyota guy for 35yrs wanted to buy American. Regret it now Toyota never treated us this way.

Hi RushRanger,

This is not consistent with Ford Customer Service. We do not use the term Ford Reps. Not sure you actually own a Ranger as this is not normal process for Ford Customer Service. I suggest you request a supervisor if you infact own a Ranger. You are not being very informative about this. What you are saying does not make sense. If you are taking a dealer's word...Find another dealer.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[rushranger2020]

Hi RushRanger,

This is not consistent with Ford Customer Service. We do not use the term Ford Reps. Not sure you actually own a Ranger as this is not normal process for Ford Customer Service. I suggest you request a supervisor if you infact own a Ranger. You are not being very informative about this. What you are saying does not make sense. If you are taking a dealer's word...Find another dealer.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Phil , I had

Hi RushRanger,

This is not consistent with Ford Customer Service. We do not use the term Ford Reps. Not sure you actually own a Ranger as this is not normal process for Ford Customer Service. I suggest you request a supervisor if you infact own a Ranger. You are not being very informative about this. What you are saying does not make sense. If you are taking a dealer's word...Find another dealer.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

I apologize if I didn't use proper term for the Ford customer service but I called 1 800-392-3673
Case#26941210
Michael Fuller was initially handling it.
You had replied to several messages I posted under (slight shuddering at 1500 rpm) . I value my time and am not on here to waste it or others. I purchased my Ranger on 4/2020 at Brandon Ford. Not sure what you mean about taking dealers word? Michael Fuller .Customer experience specialist was the person who told me that he can only go by what the dealerships service department tells him. Pretty much word for word. I did take to another dealership first . .Last information I got was about 4 days ago another Ford customer experience specialist was the one who told me my buy back was declined.

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