E85 question.

[Bproctor]

Reading a lot of these threads it looks like if have e85 available then all I need is a tune that is setup for it. Is that true? Are there any benefits?

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[quirkybar8]

Reading a lot of these threads it looks like if have e85 available then all I need is a tune that is setup for it. Is that true? Are there any benefits?

It doesn't really matter what others think when Ford clearly states not to run it in these engines, in my opinion. Page 142. But it's your warranty to void.

Note: Use of any fuel for which the vehicle was not designed can impair the emission control system, cause loss of vehicle performance, and cause damage to the engine which may not be covered by the vehicle Warranty.

Do not use:
• Diesel fuel.
• Fuels containing kerosene or paraffin.
• Fuel containing more than 15% ethanol or E85 fuel.
• Fuels containing methanol.
• Fuels containing metallic-based additives, including manganese-based compounds.
• Fuels containing the octane booster additive, methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT).
• Leaded fuel, using leaded fuel is prohibited by law

 

[quirkybar8]

I didn't weigh in on any benefits (over the obvious price difference, at least in corn country) because I can't really speak intelligently to the subject (or many others for that matter). But a quick search on volatility brought up a paper you may want to take a glance at unless you hate GM engineers. Note the huge drop in fuel economy on page 10.

https://biomassboard.gov/pdfs/culle..._high_concentration_ethanol_blend_fuelskw.pdf

 

[geophb]

I don't think the factory DI high pressure pump is capable of flowing enough to support e85.
The stock DI pump lets say could maybe support 20% more fuel over base calibration, but you're going to need about twice that just to hit stoich on e85 (which is about 45% more fuel over e0).
I ran into this issue when I was tuning a 2010 taurus sho ecoboost for ethanol, the only way to run more than e30 was an xtreme-di or livernois pump, about $1500.

The only reason the manual states not to run it, is because its not a flex fuel vehicle from factory. And if I remember correctly there is no such thing as a flex fuel ecoboost (from factory).

 

[ldr01rl]

So E15 is different than E85?

 

[VAMike]

So E15 is different than E85?

The number is the percent that's ethanol. 0 is best.

 

[JAKE2.3]

You can make good power with these flex fuels, but you have to do it intelligently. These motors are great on e30. But you have to tune for it. And you should have all the other supporting mods before that. And I would recommend a good tuner with a good reputation, not just and off the shelf canned tune. To do e85, you're going to need supplementary fueling as mentioned above. Of course, all this comes from the mustang world, but the science is transferrable. If you wanna go down a rabbit hole, look at the eco mustang forums and what has been done for power.

 

[RedlandRanger]

You can make good power with these flex fuels, but you have to do it intelligently. These motors are great on e30. But you have to tune for it. And you should have all the other supporting mods before that. And I would recommend a good tuner with a good reputation, not just and off the shelf canned tune. To do e85, you're going to need supplementary fueling as mentioned above. Of course, all this comes from the mustang world, but the science is transferrable. If you wanna go down a rabbit hole, look at the eco mustang forums and what has been done for power.

So I have a stupid question - E85 (ethanol) appears to have a lower power/gallon output (I'm not sure what the right way to phrase that is) - meaning, it takes more gas to do the same amount of work - i.e. - your MPG will go down using E85. So why is E85 a "high performance" thing? I must be missing something.

 

[jsphlynch]

Reading a lot of these threads it looks like if have e85 available then all I need is a tune that is setup for it. Is that true? Are there any benefits?

Maybe you've already seen this but @Sulli appears to be modding his truck for E85 and will be doing a write-up on it. Maybe until he gets the write-up done, he can chime in here on what it takes?

 

[ldr01rl]

I don't get the reasoning behind modding a good setup for street use. The Ranger designed based on the world market. And in Australia they thrash these trucks stock. You want to "roll coal" out of gasoline is odd. And the work and money put in to run a cheaper for doesn't pay unless you are hauling.

 

[db_tanker]

E85 has roughly a 110-112 octane rating...so you can crank your timing WAY up. More timing means you can get more power generally.

 

[jsphlynch]

So I have a stupid question - E85 (ethanol) appears to have a lower power/gallon output (I'm not sure what the right way to phrase that is) - meaning, it takes more gas to do the same amount of work - i.e. - your MPG will go down using E85. So why is E85 a "high performance" thing? I must be missing something.

Not a stupid question at all! I think you may be getting mixed up on power vs energy. Ethanol has lower energy/gallon, but it doesn't have power. The power comes from how the engine extracts that energy over time.

And I don't think the folks that are trying to get performance upgrades are shooting for top MPGs.

 

[geophb]

So I have a stupid question - E85 (ethanol) appears to have a lower power/gallon output (I'm not sure what the right way to phrase that is) - meaning, it takes more gas to do the same amount of work - i.e. - your MPG will go down using E85. So why is E85 a "high performance" thing? I must be missing something.

Valid question.
E85 has a lower heating value (btu/lb) but extra fuel needed to reach stoich is about 40-45% more fuel. So less energy but you are burning more of it. Yes your mileage tanks

The main benefit to E85 is it has a octane in the realm of 98-105 depending on the quality of the fuel and how fresh it is. Plus it has a higher latent heat of vaporiztion so it has an added cooling effect (same reason lacquer thinner feels cold on your hands).
And its relatively cheap. E85 is more or less just redneck race fuel.

For anyone that like cool numbers: The nitromethane used in the top fuel dragsters only has a heating value thats about 25% of gasoline. But the stoich is 1.7:1! So its burning about 8.5x more fuel at stoich then gasoline would be.

 

[Big Blue]

For anyone that like cool numbers: The nitromethane used in the top fuel dragsters only has a heating value thats about 25% of gasoline. But the stoich is 1.7:1! So its burning about 8.5x more fuel at stoich then gasoline would be.

Yeah they are running very close to hydraulic locking the engine. That's why they go BOOM when they lose a cylinder. Not good in your car.

 

[Racket]

What I read on the fuel fill of the truck is 15% Ethanol MAX. Took a minute to compute.

My experience is that the performance was high and gas mileage sucked. And it was only 88 Octane.

Mix it with 93/94 Octane and yeah, that was fun - gas mileage be damned.

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