Driveshaft Phasing

[Cape Cruiser]

Many people when having an issue with their vehicle and have check engine light on disconnect the battery to clear the light. This clears the codes and doesn't give the dealer much to work with when trying to diagnose a driveability complaint.

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[OKRaptor]

Was your Ranger tuned at all?

Yes, it was.

 

[OKRaptor]

Many people when having an issue with their vehicle and have check engine light on disconnect the battery to clear the light. This clears the codes and doesn't give the dealer much to work with when trying to diagnose a driveability complaint.

I showed him my Ford Pass message I received showing the wrench symbol and defining the issue. I reset it because I was 300 miles from home on Memorial day.

 

[Anthony]

I had noted on a separate thread many moons ago about letting off the gas at highway speeds and getting a weird noise. Related? Not sure, but I don't have vibrations.

https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/droning-noise-when-letting-off-gas-at-highway-speeds.5849/

 

[coblueberryranger]

in case you're interested in the designing and making of a custom drive shaft for a similar vibration on the tacoma check this out (his mostly due to lift, but said some stock tacomas also experience):

 

[HarryD]

I am thinking that at some point (I only have about 4000 miles on my truck) I might just replace the two piece driveshaft with a single piece aluminum tube one. It would alleviate any issues with the center support bearing and u-joint phasing. I have a 2020 4X4 Non-FX4 SuperCrew. It is my understanding that a single piece driveshaft will work if the flanges are within 3 degrees of each other. In regard to that, I just measured the angles of the transfer case and differential flanges. They both measured 6 degrees from vertical.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

I am thinking that at some point (I only have about 4000 miles on my truck) I might just replace the two piece driveshaft with a single piece aluminum tube one. It would alleviate any issues with the center support bearing and u-joint phasing. I have a 2020 4X4 Non-FX4 SuperCrew. It is my understanding that a single piece driveshaft will work if the flanges are within 3 degrees of each other. In regard to that, I just measured the angles of the transfer case and differential flanges. They both measured 6 degrees from vertical.

Hi Harry,

Certainly doable to make a single piece driveshaft out of Aluminum, but you need a fab shop that can calculate critical speed to insure that the shaft does not hit resonant frequency in any drive mode. In other words the top speed of a Ranger with the 3.73 gearing. This is a function of the material, the wall thickness of the drive shaft, diameter of the shaft and the length. The second is the clearance between the single piece shaft and the center bearing crossmember... There could be a problem with the driveshaft hitting the center bearing crossmember. We found this out when we launched the Ranger Edge. There was line on line (just a kiss) contact between the Ranger 4x2 shaft in the Ranger 4x4 frame center bearing crossmember and the unanticipated revision to the crossmember with associated costs in development of the Edge in order to launch the Ranger Edge. Ranger Edge was to give the 4x4 appearance with its torsion bar front suspension to a 4x2 vehicle at lower cost than a 4x4. We also piloted the first OEM step bar on the Edge. That was a nightmare at the assembly plant trying to install the step bars on line....We finally gave up and Edge vehicles were dispatched to an off line operation to install the step bars. As I recall we only built Ranger Edge at the Edison NJ plant, not Twin Cities Assembly as I recall funding Oxbow to develop the install tools at Edison but not Twin Cities. Oxbow got a FAIL on its tooling to install the step bar in my opinion. I spent money on a system that never worked in production....

Good luck with your development project.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[Porpoise Hork]

Hi Harry,

Certainly doable to make a single piece driveshaft out of Aluminum, but you need a fab shop that can calculate critical speed to insure that the shaft does not hit resonant frequency in any drive mode. In other words the top speed of a Ranger with the 3.73 gearing. This is a function of the material, the wall thickness of the drive shaft, diameter of the shaft and the length. The second is the clearance between the single piece shaft and the center bearing crossmember... There could be a problem with the driveshaft hitting the center bearing crossmember. We found this out when we launched the Ranger Edge. There was line on line (just a kiss) contact between the Ranger 4x2 shaft in the Ranger 4x4 frame center bearing crossmember and the unanticipated revision to the crossmember with associated costs in development of the Edge in order to launch the Ranger Edge. Ranger Edge was to give the 4x4 appearance with its torsion bar front suspension to a 4x2 vehicle at lower cost than a 4x4. We also piloted the first OEM step bar on the Edge. That was a nightmare at the assembly plant trying to install the step bars on line....We finally gave up and Edge vehicles were dispatched to an off line operation to install the step bars. As I recall we only built Ranger Edge at the Edison NJ plant, not Twin Cities Assembly as I recall funding Oxbow to develop the install tools at Edison but not Twin Cities. Oxbow got a FAIL on its tooling to install the step bar in my opinion. I spent money on a system that never worked in production....

Good luck with your development project.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

So basically you're saying he should take the truck to a qualified custom driveshaft company and say this to them when they start explaining the cost?

 

[P. A. Schilke]

So basically you're saying he should take the truck to a qualified custom driveshaft company and say this to them when they start explaining the cost?

Hi PH,

Yep...Ya gets what for which you pay! However the clearance concerns have to be dealt with as well... Not may shops can handle a Jounce Study which is a very complicated study of the suspension/ power train/ chassis. We sometimes relented to putting clay on the crossmember and dynamically assessed after driving the roads on the proving ground and then measuring the depression in the clay. Design requirement is ¾" clearance between rotating members (driveshaft) and stationary components. If this criteria is not met...back to the drawing board.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[DHMag]

So...to sum up what I've read in this thread, there is a vibration at X speed(s), the driveshaft isn't phased, but not everyone has the vibration, but the driveshaft phasing is the cause. But maybe the driveshaft is phased.

No one has mentioned steering/suspension geometry. Caster, camber, toe, solid axle alignment just to name a few. Or it could be the trans programming, which is adaptive to each user.

 

[HarryD]

While under the truck I snapped a few photos of the driveshaft assembly and mounting areas.
It looks to me that with the center carrier bearing removed there should be quite a bit of clearance for the one piece driveshaft to articulate. I measured the distance between the flanges to be 67.250", but I have not yet taken into consideration the critical speed factor that Phil pointed out as being a very important aspect to consider. While I have been in communication with a driveshaft manufacturing company who knows what vehicle I am working on, we haven't actually discussed the critical speed requirement. The representative has sent me a document that addresses this and I have attached it here. I, for one, will not need to consider the extreme articulations required for off-road adventures, nor increased driveshaft u-joint angles from lifting the truck. The most off-road type driving I will be attempting will be negotiating New England winter pot hole roads.

 

[RobmJ]

HI Matt,

Driveshaft length is determines the critical speed of the shaft. This speed is when the driveshaft starts to "jump rope". When the Driveshaft is too long, critical speed of the shaft can be lowered into the actual vehicle speed range.. Not allowed by Ford. So for longer driveshafts, you can increase the diameter of the shaft, change the material to aluminum or composite, or resort to a two piece shaft which is inherently prone to start up shudder. Why the Ranger program chose the two piece is beyond me, but they did for some reason. This has nothing do do with phasing which is that the U joint Yokes are all aligned. The video with a yard stick is an attempt to show misphased U joints, but failed in my opinion as I could not determine if the two shafts were actually out of phase. Giving benefit of the doubt to the video. It would be that the shafts were one output spline off. The fix is to reindex the the rear driveshaft one spline.

Most times on two piece driveshafts, the misindex is addressed by making the spline shaft with a blocked spline which means the drive shaft and the slip yoke can only go on in one way...but I do not know if the Aussies that designed the Ranger did this.

So my recommendation is to take it back to the dealer for addressing the out of phase driveline.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

I just started noticing this vibration too.. So to clarify, is their a fix?

 

[P. A. Schilke]

I just started noticing this vibration too.. So to clarify, is their a fix?

Hi Rob,

Sorry, but I can't help you as the vibration could be several sources. Driveline is but one aspect. Your best bet is to take it to the dealer and if they cannot resolve...take it to another dealer and open a formal trouble ticket with Ford Customer Service. There is rarely a "fix" that addresses 100% of the vehicles... Do not know where you are in this mix. Need more data. When are you experiencing the vibration. All the time or on cold start up. What rpm? Under acceleeraton or deceleration?

My take away of so many of these is like going to the doctor and saying I have a server pain and nothing more.

Start up shudder affects a portion of the Ranger population but to what degree is hard to define. It seems not many folks experience this. Some get relief from a dealership engine/Transmission neutralization procedure.

So the short story is there is likely a fix, but the fix may be different from the Forum thread.

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[HarryD]

I just took my truck to a local Ford dealer to have the vibration documented.
I rode with the technician as he took it out on a local highway, but the roads here in Western MA are nothing to brag about ( in the latest Civil Engineers Infrastructure Ratings, MA scored an F- -). I was able to feel the vibration a bit, but the technician claimed that he could not.
He performed the inspections prescribed in the Service Manual and found nothing wrong, which I expected to be the case. Because nothing was found, I was charged $140.00 for the diagnosis.
If he had indeed felt the vibration that is there, their next step would have been to drive the truck with a vibration sensing meter. If the meter reading was below a certain threshold, nothing would be done to correct it.
I am attaching the portion of the Service Manual pertaining to the Driveshaft.

 

[RobmJ]

I just took my truck to a local Ford dealer to have the vibration documented.
I rode with the technician as he took it out on a local highway, but the roads here in Western MA are nothing to brag about ( in the latest Civil Engineers Infrastructure Ratings, MA scored an F- -). I was able to feel the vibration a bit, but the technician claimed that he could not.
He performed the inspections prescribed in the Service Manual and found nothing wrong, which I expected to be the case. Because nothing was found, I was charged $140.00 for the diagnosis.
If he had indeed felt the vibration that is there, their next step would have been to drive the truck with a vibration sensing meter. If the meter reading was below a certain threshold, nothing would be done to correct it.
I am attaching the portion of the Service Manual pertaining to the Driveshaft.

Just curious , what speed did you drive to show the tech? Between 70-80 is very noticeable with my truck.

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