10R80 Trans Adaptive Learning Truth

[CJBax]

Interesting video.. thanks for posting it @AdamHarris

@ 3:15 he states "I'll simply go into the computer and clear the adaptive tables out"

@ 4:17 he goes through how he got a 2018 Ford Raptor to relearn shifting

Hard to argue it doesn't learn if the computer has adaptive tables... and if you clear those out... give it some time to re-adapt, and then it shifts differently.

And good to know you can ask the dealer to go in and clear out the adaptive tables if you have issues (as he talks about @ 7:50 & 8:09), or even go in and turn it off completely (which sounds like a bad idea due to possible increased wear issues, as he talks about at 7:22)

Heck, you could even show the end of this video to the Service Manager and tell them this is what you want done, and you'll pay for that extra 15 minutes of time for the tech to do it (go to 8:09).

No one is saying that the transmission doesn't "learn" it is well known that the 10r80 tcm is adaptive. Heck, I've had vehicles from other manufacturers as far back as 2005 that the manufacturer stated the transmission was adaptive. What we are saying is that the transmission is not learning my unique driving style in such a way as he claims in the video. Just look at the TSB snippet posted above by RP. It clearly states that the computer, presumably the TCM, learns the TRANSMISSION'S unique parameters, not the users driving habits.

An example of what this sounds like is something astronomers see in equatorial mounts that must be very precise. Each mount has tiny variances in worm drives or other gears or pullys that cause repeatable specific behavior that leads to imperfect tracking of the stars. To solve this we use autoguiding in real-time to compensate for those variances and improve tracking. Another approach is something we call permanent periodic error correction, where the motors go through several cycles of all the gearing and the computer identifies (learns) the tiny variances then saves a table that will allow the computer preemptively compensate for them in the future, improving operation precision.

Sponsored

 

[Trigganometry]

Now I’m curious if this is something that can be done with Forscan.

 

[Meangreen92lx]

In truth nobody knows except the engineer who wrote the program. And they won't tell you how it exactly works due to liability issues. I get updated programming for various modules all the time on new cars. Most of the time we have no clue what the update is changing besides supposedly fixing some problem. The manufacturers keep everyone in the dark on this stuff.

 

[SilverSlugger]

He keeps talking about used vehicle owners having the shifting issues and mentions folks with new vehicles never having an issue but I got my 2021 ranger new and drove it stock for about 1300miles before tuning it and it did all the things he mentioned. Shuddering, hesitation on downshift or feeling like you have to force it to downshift while accelerating, hard or jumpy feeling shifts, especially when slowing to a stop in the lower gears, like a clunk while downshifting. Obviously I don't know exactly how these things work but if what the guy in the video says is factual then it should have learned my driving and those issues shouldn't have been there but if my friend drove my car maybe they would have issues? Yeah, I'm not convinced. Sure, maybe it does learn certain drive style things, but based on the vast amount of complaints with the 10r80, I'm convinced that these are just corks of this transmission design that for many folks won't go away with a simple reset and relearn period.

I’m convinced it’s operator error and you people don’t understand how to drive.

 

[Leftcoast]

I thought Ford Phil cleared this up. It doesn't adapt to driving habits.

 

[FoD]

I imagine that an "adaptive table" is just a number sample per drive, sampled over a specified time range ( minutes??) and averaged over a specified time range (say days) and then stored as that value for the trans computer to use. The trans shifting changes as that number changes, which means a "learned" adaptation to driving style.

*no drugs or alcohol were used in this surmised assessment

 

[navsnipe]

When I had my 2013 VW GTI I went though some frustration of transmission adaptation because I do a lot of stop and go driving. A friend who is a VW tech gave me a PDF of his VW/Audi DSG transmission training guide. It really gave me a idea of what is going on in these things. They do adapt pressures and clutch tolerances and also to driver style. The driver style is a constant thing based upon throttle position and activity, braking, turning, etc. I bought the VCDS tool and found I could look at the percentage of time the transmission spent in programmed modes which ultimately determined how the transmission responded. Drive mellow 90% of the time, you get a mellow response, drive aggressive 90% and get aggressive response. Predictive behavior based on historical data.

I'm sure Ford has similar programming so this guy is not far off the mark.

 

[Dinglehead]

So how do I reset these shift tables this dude is referencing?

 

[navsnipe]

So how do I reset these shift tables this dude is referencing?

Either have the dealership reset the transmission adaptation or get Forscan and the compatible odb2 interface and do it yourself.

 

[CJBax]

I’m convinced it’s operator error and you people don’t understand how to drive.

Sure. That must be it....

 

[HenryMac]

Now I’m curious if this is something that can be done with Forscan.

See "Fact 3" here: 10R80 Owners - ULTIMATE M6G 10R80 Facts + Resolutions to harsh or no shift conditions

 

[navsnipe]

theres also a key cycle process that will do it as well

Also known as the chicken dance

 

[Big Blue]

theres also a key cycle process that will do it as well

I think I've seen that somewhere. Kind of like doing the Hokey Pokey if I remember right.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

I think I've seen that somewhere. Kind of like doing the Hokey Pokey if I remember right.

Hi Lee,

When you execute the procedure...remember you have to cluck like a chicken...

 

[Polar Bear]

RP seems angry (in nearly every reply on nearly every post).... Or is everyone here really a twat..?

Somebody get that guy a Snickers.....

Sponsored