Biggest Travel Trailer?

[Rock76]

I agree some pretty impressive rigs being pulled. But, and I will probably get slammed for this, the one number nobody talks about is GCVWR (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating). This is a number the towing guides specifically tell you NOT to exceed. For our trucks this number varies depending on cab style a if it is 2 or 4 wheel drive. It goes from 12150# to 12500#, with SuperCab 4x2 the lowest and SuperCrew 4x4 the highest. The 7500# max tow rating also has a footnote to it stating that it is for an empty truck with a single 150# driver.

I would love to see CAT scale slips for some of these huge rigs loaded for travel with all passengers showing you are under the GCVWR for your truck.

This 7500# max rating is not a hard number no matter what you have done to you truck or how much stuff you have in it. It is a sliding number based on a lot of factors.

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[stufus]

I agree some pretty impressive rigs being pulled. But, and I will probably get slammed for this, the one number nobody talks about is GCVWR (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating). This is a number the towing guides specifically tell you NOT to exceed. For our trucks this number varies depending on cab style a if it is 2 or 4 wheel drive. It goes from 12150# to 12500#, with SuperCab 4x2 the lowest and SuperCrew 4x4 the highest. The 7500# max tow rating also has a footnote to it stating that it is for an empty truck with a single 150# driver.

I would love to see CAT scale slips for some of these huge rigs loaded for travel with all passengers showing you are under the GCVWR for your truck.

This 7500# max rating is not a hard number no matter what you have done to you truck or how much stuff you have in it. It is a sliding number based on a lot of factors.

Does this mean Ford's advertised towing capacity of 7500 lbs for the Tremor is misleading?

Unless I'm doing my math wrong....

6050 GVWR - 1430 Max Payload = 4620 Curb Weight

4620 + 750 Tongue Weight + 7500 Trailer Weight = 12,870 lbs

So it seems the heaviest properly loaded trailer you can tow with the Tremor (while staying under 12,500 GCWR) is around 7150 lbs.

4620 + 715 + 7150 = 12,485

This leaves a whopping 15 lbs for payload!

I wonder where Ford pulled the 7500 lb tow rating from?

 

[Stevedbvik1]

Does this mean Ford's advertised towing capacity of 7500 lbs for the Tremor is misleading?

Unless I'm doing my math wrong....

6050 GVWR - 1430 Max Payload = 4620 Curb Weight

4620 + 750 Tongue Weight + 7500 Trailer Weight = 12,870 lbs

So it seems the heaviest properly loaded trailer you can tow with the Tremor (while staying under 12,500 GCWR) is around 7150 lbs.

4620 + 715 + 7150 = 12,485

This leaves a whopping 15 lbs for payload!

I wonder where Ford pulled the 7500 lb tow rating from?

Wouldn’t the trailer weight include the tongue weight?

 

[Grumpaw]

Wouldn’t the trailer weight include the tongue weight?

Tongue weight becomes payload weight.
Example...
If payload weight rating is 1500 lbs, and tongue weight of trailer is 750 lbs, than that leaves you 750 lbs of limit left.
You also have to factor in the weight of the hitch assembly which may average around 50-75 lbs as part of the payload. Deduct that from your 750 and that leaves you around 700 lbs left.

 

[Stevedbvik1]

Tongue weight becomes payload weight.
Example...
If payload weight rating is 1500 lbs, and tongue weight of trailer is 750 lbs, than that leaves you 750 lbs of limit left.
You also have to factor in the weight of the hitch assembly which may average around 50-75 lbs as part of the payload. Deduct that from your 750 and that leaves you around 700 lbs left.

I understand that aspect of it. I was replying to his statement of ….
“ So it seems the heaviest properly loaded trailer you can tow with the Tremor (while staying under 12,500 GCWR) is around 7150 lbs.

4620 + 715 + 7150 = 12,485 ”

 

[Grumpaw]

Tongue weight rating has no bearing on the tow rating. The Ranger is rated to tow 7500 lbs, whether the tongue weight is 75 lbs or 750 lbs, the trailer still weighs 7500 lbs. You can take a final tongue weight of 750 lbs and lower it by moving weight to the rear of the trailer, behind the axle's.
Trailer still weighs 7500 lbs, but now you have lowered your tongue weight, and increased the load rating of the Ranger by however much you lowered the tongue weight.
That might seem like you could then add a lot of weight to the bed, but you can't as you still have to stay within th gcvwr of both truck and trailer combo.
There is also the fact that you must have a certain percentage of weight...tongue weight, on the truck so it will tow safely.
Lets say you take the bed off the Ranger, and that saves you, lets say 400 lbs. Now you can add an extra 400 lbs to the payload, but you havent changed the rating or what you can tow or the rating of the tongue weight.
The tongue weight is actually determined by several factors, but the rating given the hitch is the most important...you can easily get a class 4 hitch that is rated for 10,000 lbs and a 1000 tongue weight, throw it on, and increase the ratings.
But then in steps Ford, who determines that their frame, engine, trans, axle, will only handle 7500/750.

 

[Stevedbvik1]

Tongue weight rating has no bearing on the tow rating. The Ranger is rated to tow 7500 lbs, whether the tongue weight is 75 lbs or 750 lbs, the trailer still weighs 7500 lbs. You can take a final tongue weight of 750 lbs and lower it by moving weight to the rear of the trailer, behind the axle's.
Trailer still weighs 7500 lbs, but now you have lowered your tongue weight, and increased the load rating of the Ranger by however much you lowered the tongue weight.
That might seem like you could then add a lot of weight to the bed, but you can't as you still have to stay within th gcvwr of both truck and trailer combo.
There is also the fact that you must have a certain percentage of weight...tongue weight, on the truck so it will tow safely.

But if I use his math he is saying the actual trailer weight is 7865 lbs and that’s what I am having an issue with or questioning.
“4620 + 715 + 7150 = 12,485 ”
Doesn’t 715 + 7150 = 7865?

 

[Grumpaw]

The weight of the trailer is 7150. The hitch weight is 715.
Two totally separate weights. The 715 is not added to the trailer weight.
Trailer sitting all alone, not hitched up...
Trailer weighs 7150. Total.
The 715 lb hitch weight is the amount of weight that is pressing down on the front of the hitch as it sits level, but it is not added into the weight of the trailer, its already part of the trailers weight.
The numbers can drive you nuts.
Another example would be a 7500 lb trailer with a 1500 lb tongue weight. A combo like that would put you over the load rating of the Ranger by just adding that 1500 lbs to the truck as payload.
Trailer still weighs 7500 lbs, but now your over the gcvwr.

 

[Big Blue]

Does this mean Ford's advertised towing capacity of 7500 lbs for the Tremor is misleading?

Unless I'm doing my math wrong....

6050 GVWR - 1430 Max Payload = 4620 Curb Weight

4620 + 750 Tongue Weight + 7500 Trailer Weight = 12,870 lbs

So it seems the heaviest properly loaded trailer you can tow with the Tremor (while staying under 12,500 GCWR) is around 7150 lbs.

4620 + 715 + 7150 = 12,485

This leaves a whopping 15 lbs for payload!

I wonder where Ford pulled the 7500 lb tow rating from?

A couple things the tongue weight is is part of the total trailer weight but is concidered as part of the trucks payload. I know it's a little confusing. As is the fact that tow capacity is figured with a 150# driver and a 150# passanger. While the payload numbers are figured with just a 150# driver. The maximum tow number is really only attainable under certain conditions which are not real life, at least for a family camping.

Only real to be sure is to know the GCVWR for your truck and weigh your rig ready to travel.

 

[stufus]

Tongue weight rating has no bearing on the tow rating. The Ranger is rated to tow 7500 lbs, whether the tongue weight is 75 lbs or 750 lbs, the trailer still weighs 7500 lbs. You can take a final tongue weight of 750 lbs and lower it by moving weight to the rear of the trailer, behind the axle's.
Trailer still weighs 7500 lbs, but now you have lowered your tongue weight, and increased the load rating of the Ranger by however much you lowered the tongue weight.
That might seem like you could then add a lot of weight to the bed, but you can't as you still have to stay within th gcvwr of both truck and trailer combo.
There is also the fact that you must have a certain percentage of weight...tongue weight, on the truck so it will tow safely.
Lets say you take the bed off the Ranger, and that saves you, lets say 400 lbs. Now you can add an extra 400 lbs to the payload, but you havent changed the rating or what you can tow or the rating of the tongue weight.
The tongue weight is actually determined by several factors, but the rating given the hitch is the most important...you can easily get a class 4 hitch that is rated for 10,000 lbs and a 1000 tongue weight, throw it on, and increase the ratings.
But then in steps Ford, who determines that their frame, engine, trans, axle, will only handle 7500/750.

So theoretically you can tow a 7500 lb trailer with the Tremor if it is loaded improperly (with ~5% tongue weight).

4620 + 7500 = 12,120

This leaves 380 lbs for tongue weight.

 

[Grumpaw]

So theoretically you can tow a 7500 lb trailer with the Tremor if it is loaded improperly (with ~5% tongue weight).

4620 + 7500 = 12,120

This leaves 380 lbs for tongue weight.

In very simple numbers, yes.
But in real world, your tongue weight should be 10-12 % of the trailers weight, thus you would be at 750 tongue weight.
You will still be towing a 7500 lb trailer, but now you have added 750 lbs pf payload weight to the Ranger, instead of 380.
As has been posted the numbers can be moved back and forth between truck and trailer.
Are you asking because your planning on towing a large heave trailer...
If so, and your an experienced rv'er who has towed before, than you know all this info and how to figure out proper weights.
If your a newbie, and planning on towing a large heavy trailer, than you are probably way out of your ability.
If your just curious and are throwing numbers at the wall to see what sticks, then all the info you need is in your owners manual and dealers Ranger brochure.
Starting off with a trailer that is at maximum weight for your truck is not the way to go.
Even my large travel trailer comes in at around 6500-6700 lbs depending on what we take with us, and my tongue weight is now at around 700-725 lbs as I added a second battery to the front and haven't weighed it since.
I am experienced, and I would not go any further than I have, as I'm pretty much at the max.

 

[stufus]

In very simple numbers, yes.
But in real world, your tongue weight should be 10-12 % of the trailers weight, thus you would be at 750 tongue weight.
You will still be towing a 7500 lb trailer, but now you have added 750 lbs pf payload weight to the Ranger, instead of 380.
As has been posted the numbers can be moved back and forth between truck and trailer.
Are you asking because your planning on towing a large heave trailer...
If so, and your an experienced rv'er who has towed before, than you know all this info and how to figure out proper weights.
If your a newbie, and planning on towing a large heavy trailer, than you are probably way out of your ability.
If your just curious and are throwing numbers at the wall to see what sticks, then all the info you need is in your owners manual and dealers Ranger brochure.
Starting off with a trailer that is at maximum weight for your truck is not the way to go.
Even my large travel trailer comes in at around 6500-6700 lbs depending on what we take with us, and my tongue weight is now at around 700-725 lbs as I added a second battery to the front and haven't weighed it since.
I am experienced, and I would not go any further than I have, as I'm pretty much at the max.

I do have a decent amount of experience towing 6000 - 7000 lb travel trailers and the occasional 10000 - 12000 lb equipment trailer (obviously not with midsize trucks). Have no plans of buying a Tremor or towing anything over 4-5k with the ranger.

This thread just got me thinking about Ford's ratings and how they arrived at them. I know max ratings are for "ideal conditions" but was still surprised they rated these trucks to tow 7500 lbs when it isn't even achievable if the trailer is loaded properly.


For comparison, a 2005 F150 my family had was rated to tow 8300 lbs and had a GCWR of 15,000. You could tow 8300 lbs with an 830 lb tongue weight and still have a safety margin of 270 lbs for payload.

Was just pointing out how sketchy the max tow rating is on some trims of the Ranger.

 

[ctechbob]

Was just pointing out how sketchy the max tow rating is on some trims of every single truck made.

Fixed that for you.

All manufs play the same game. Ford does with the F150 (And 250/350's, but there's more wiggle room there) as well, sometimes to a bigger extent. I've seen payloads on Platinum series trucks as low as 1200#. Same F150 that they say can tow 10-11,000 pounds. Tell me how that happens with a family of 4 in the truck and a fully loaded trailer and stay within the pound-bounds. Never happen, and only 1% of the people buying the trucks care. They'll load them up to the gills, strap on a 30' travel trailer and hit the road.

No one escapes from marketing numbers, they all want to list the biggest number possible so they can be '#1".

--Edited--

Personally, I don't think you'll ever see towing numbers get more granular than what we have now. No manufacturer is going to print it on the door jam like they do with the payload amount. Sure, they could do the calculation and print it there, but unless they're forced to by the gov, they're not going to.

Fact is, people overload their trucks ALL the time, and 99.9999% of them get away with it. Perhaps they shorten the life of their truck, but they don't care about that either since most people don't hang on to vehicles long enough to wear them out. Maybe a few of them get into accidents and get sued, but again, that is a tiny tiny percentage of the millions of trucks on the road.

 

[Cmar]

I’m pretty sure the laws of physics was used while certifying the vehicle for 7500 pounds now you seem really upset by people towing stop that is heavier than your liking who cares what you’re liking is we’re not here for a lecture on your idea of physics

The Ranger is certified to tow 3500 kg in Australia but the GCM (Gross Combined Mass) is 6000kg so if you are going to tow the 3.5 tonne max you won't have much payload. And yes the trailer ball download is considered part of that payload.
Additionally you have to be sure you don't exceed the front and rear axle loading. Front seems illogical until you consider the extra weight transferred if you use a weight distribution hitch.
It's all a balancing act. Also any accessories you attach to the truck eat into your payload. For example I have an ARB steel bullbar ~ 80Kg, plus an ARB canopy say ~ 130Kg which takes 200 odd Kg off my payload before I chuck anything into the back.

Because full size trucks like F150's, Rams, Silverados, etc are uncommon and expensive here, mid size trucks like the Ranger, Toyota Hilux, and Isuzu D Max tend to get pressed into heavy towing service here. Your only other options are Land cruiser or Nissan Patrol full size wagons.

Having said all that we have a 17 foot Jayco Journey Outback dual axle caravan ( travel trailer) which (according to Jayco) tares at 1950 Kg and GVM's at 2450, we rarely load it that full, but 160 litres of water and food and crap for a couple of weeks away does tend to add up.

Being a dual axle the ball weight is quite light, it actually tows better with some water in the front tank. The outback models are heavy because they have a reinforced chassis and independent trailing arm suspension with coils and shocks for use on rough roads.

We recently took ours on a round trip to Victoria and back for about 3000 km mostly on the tar. But a lot of back roads with steep climbs, rough surfaces etc. It towed like a dream, the Ranger had no problems at all with it.

 

[bentroia]

Great Discussion

Picking up a Lance travel trailer this weekend. I have a stock 21 lariat tremor with factory tow and an added Ford accesory trailer brake controller. Planning WD hitxh and focused safe driving practices 65 max sped ect. No plan to further modify the truck.

My wife and I travel fairly light. Living in CA Gold Country, our trips will always include foothill and mountain pass driving.

Windage behing this small truck is my only real concern.

What additional wisdom -guidance do you have? Appreciate your knowledge and input.

2018 Lance 1995 Trailer Specs

Dual Axle

Length 23.67 ft. (284 in.)

Width 8.06 ft. (96.75 in.)

Height 10.17 ft. (122 in.)

Dry Weight 4,080 lbs.

Payload Capacity 1,620 lbs.

GVWR 5,700 lbs.

Hitch Weight 365 lbs.

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