Think I Threw a Rod....

[D Fresh]

I reference goodwill repair only as an example of leeway a mfg has - at their discretion. I had an alternator go out on a vehicle 800 miles after warranty expired and the the repair was done good will - no concern about precedent setting as often times when the warranty is up one can be sol. In no way was I suggesting a goodwill in this specific incident. But if Ford wished to do it they certainly could. As someone mentioned - a fair amount of detailed information is lacking .

An alternator is a litttle different than an engine .

Hi Folks,

Okay....yep I am confused....Thanks for the clarification.....

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

The scotch come earlier than reported?

Torrie is not 5-Star. Torrie is with Unleashed Tuning, a separate entity.

We run the the Warranty Program for 5-Star, so the only people currently involved in this are Project Midnight, 5-Star, ourselves, and the dealership.

Curious, to me, that there hasn't been a peep from 5 Star on this.

Beyond "running the warranty program" for them what is your relationship with 5star?

Ok, I have to ask. How can you NOT have pictures. Why do you need the dealer to give you pictures? You have a blown engine that you are trying to get covered by warranty and you haven't even been to the dealer to look at it yourself? Not trying to start something, but honestly, I find that hard to believe.

So........as per standard forum rules, "Without pictures, it never happened".

This, all day.

Thread should be titled "Think I threw a rod but I really don't care at all."

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[Langwilliams]

back in the old fox body mustang 5.0 days the first efi 5.0's were speed density tuned an they didn't like major mods like aggressive cams...the 89 model went to MAF an you could get larger MAF unit's an calibrate them for more air flow to comp for greater mods. BUT if the ranger has a wide range O2 sensor system that would be more advanced than anything I've dealt with before. I know the hard core guys go with aftermarket wide range systems to replace the basic tuning in the stock Harley EFI management.

 

[dtech]

back in the old fox body mustang 5.0 days the first efi 5.0's were speed density tuned an they didn't like major mods like aggressive cams...the 89 model went to MAF an you could get larger MAF unit's an calibrate them for more air flow to comp for greater mods. BUT if the ranger has a wide range O2 sensor system that would be more advanced than anything I've dealt with before. I know the hard core guys go with aftermarket wide range systems to replace the basic tuning in the stock Harley EFI management.

yeah I'm out of date on the latest as well - like you I recall when mods were done to the speed density stuff the engine would often puke on itself.

 

[Jason@Stage3]

Stepping back from this individual issue since you are in the middle of it and it would be inappropriate to comment...

On a higher level, I am just curious if the warranty program claims are self funded through premiums collected or do tune shops reinsure through another entity on the backend ?

Honestly, it’s the most basic warranty program ever.

Customer can tack on a warranty at an additional cost, that money goes into a pool, we pay out of that pool under the terms and conditions of the warranty. No monthly premiums or other shops required.

Beyond "running the warranty program" for them what is your relationship with 5star?

Our relationship with 5-Star isn’t really all that different from our business relationships with other vendors that we work closely with (i.e. ICON, MBRP, Rigid Industries, etc.).

We sell their custom tuning, and have for a long time now. Granted, we are a bit closer to them than with most of the others thanks to the warranty program and all that entails.

Frankly, I don’t find their absence that curious at all, considering there’s not much for them to do once a motor under our warranty pops and the local dealer/service center refuses to cover it (other than satisfy their own curiosity as to the mechanics of the failure).

 

[Zaph]

Watching this thread to see how it pans out with their warranty coverage. I suspect a battle - likely between 5 star and Ford at first then 5 star and you last. If that is what it sounds like, it's probably a $10K bill that nobody is going to want to get stuck with.

If the warranty doesn’t cover it, it will be expensive, but not $10k. On Mustang6g.com, back in 2018, somebody threw a rod in their Ecoboost Mustang and it was $6500 for a new motor and new turbo installed.

Ford had quoted me $14,107 for a new stock engine with parts and labor included, to regain my Ford Warranty...

Ouch. Never underestimate the ability for a dealer to outrageously price a repair.

That repair price feels like a "let's teach people a lesson about modifying your vehicle" price.

Good luck @Project Midnight hope it all turns out. I think we have a lot of eyes on this thread watching to see what happens.

 

[D Fresh]

Honestly, it’s the most basic warranty program ever.

Customer can tack on a warranty at an additional cost, that money goes into a pool, we pay out of that pool under the terms and conditions of the warranty. No monthly premiums or other shops required.



Our relationship with 5-Star isn’t really all that different from our business relationships with other vendors that we work closely with (i.e. ICON, MBRP, Rigid Industries, etc.).

We sell their custom tuning, and have for a long time now. Granted, we are a bit closer to them than with most of the others thanks to the warranty program and all that entails.

Frankly, I don’t find their absence that curious at all, considering there’s not much for them to do once a motor under our warranty pops and the local dealer/service center refuses to cover it (other than satisfy their own curiosity as to the mechanics of the failure).

So, you offer insurance on Icon, MBRP, and Rigid products as well?

The whole thing seems a bit odd. I've been around turbos and tuning for over two decades. I've never once heard of a warranty on a tune, no less offered by a simple vendor. Seems as though there would have been a deeper relationship between the two companies for this to come about.

To an "outsider" their absence is weird. Of course they should have curiosity about the failure. But there seems to be none here.

Are you saying that OP's engine will be covered regardless of the cause?

Shouldn't an analysis be made of the engine first? What if he did run it out of oil? You still gonna cover it?

The OP doesn't seem to care what caused it, Ford doesn't seem to care what caused it, 5 Star doesn't seem to care what caused it, do you guys care what caused it?

I mean, if you don't, why is anybody running anything other than 5 Star w/ Stage 3 insurance?

 

[VAMike]

Ouch. Never underestimate the ability for a dealer to outrageously price a repair.

That repair price feels like a "let's teach people a lesson about modifying your vehicle" price.

Includes putting all the mods back to stock?

 

[NeptuneRanger]

So, you offer insurance on Icon, MBRP, and Rigid products as well?

The whole thing seems a bit odd. I've been around turbos and tuning for over two decades. I've never once heard of a warranty on a tune, no less offered by a simple vendor. Seems as though there would have been a deeper relationship between the two companies for this to come about.

To an "outsider" their absence is weird. Of course they should have curiosity about the failure. But there seems to be none here.

Are you saying that OP's engine will be covered regardless of the cause?

Shouldn't an analysis be made of the engine first? What if he did run it out of oil? You still gonna cover it?

The OP doesn't seem to care what caused it, Ford doesn't seem to care what caused it, 5 Star doesn't seem to care what caused it, do you guys care what caused it?

I mean, if you don't, why is anybody running anything other than 5 Star w/ Stage 3 insurance?

Actually much information is already in the thread... read through this...

https://www.stage3motorsports.com/a...ty Stuff/2019 Ranger Warranty Legalese v0.pdf

5 Star advertises a warranty but the link goes to Stage 3.

As Jason stated this is a very simple operation. Customer comes in pays a one time payment. The money goes into a pool and then if claims come up and it is covered per T&C, Stage 3 writes the check up to a certain amount for the engine. Think of it like a co-op not a mega corporation insurance policy or large vendor extended warranty.

The question is how much money is in the pool and if several large claims all happen at once can they cover.

Insurance is a very regulated business and it takes a lot of financial liquidity and capital to start one up.

I appreciate the entrepreneurial spirit and tuning companies trying overcome the voided factory warranty objections by offering a solution. My only advice to Stage 3 and 5 Star is to truly understand your financial exposure and make sure your core businesses are not put at risk if it all hits the fan on the warranty side if there is a problem of scale.

 

[D Fresh]

Actually much information is already in the thread... read through this...

https://www.stage3motorsports.com/assets/images/5Star Warranty Stuff/2019 Ranger Warranty Legalese v0.pdf

5 Star advertises a warranty but the link goes to Stage 3.

As Jason stated this is a very simple operation. Customer comes in pays a one time payment. The money goes into a pool and then if claims come up and it is covered per T&C, Stage 3 writes the check up to a certain amount for the engine. Think of it like a co-op not a mega corporation insurance policy or large vendor extended warranty.

The question is how much money is in the pool and if several large claims all happen at once can they cover.

Insurance is a very regulated business and it takes a lot of financial liquidity and capital to start one up.

I appreciate the entrepreneurial spirit and tuning companies trying overcome the voided factory warranty objections by offering a solution. My only advice to Stage 3 and 5 Star is to truly understand your financial exposure and make sure your core businesses are not put at risk if it all hits the fan on the warranty side if there is a problem of scale.

I know exactly what they are offering. I'm not an idiot. It's quite simple.

However, it is very strange. No other tuner of any vehicle type, that I know of, offers such a thing. Or ever has. This is an industry first and we are expected to believe that two separate companies decided to do this out of the blue?

Why on earth would Stage 3 take on this responsibility, financial and otherwise?

What if their "pool" is only $15k, they pay for this dudes engine @ $14k, and somebody else whose tune is insured blows an engine?

Why would Stage 3 even take this on without COMPLETE trust in 5 Star? How would they develop that complete trust in a company they are simply a vendor for?

The whole setup seems fishy is all.

If 5 Star offered their own insurance it would make more sense. However, a completely uninvolved vendor offering it does not. Maybe if you could only buy the insurance from 5 Star if you purchase the tune from them, but that is not the case.

To top it off the "insurance" company for lack of a better term doesn't even seem to care what caused the problem.

My prediction. This will not be settled soon. And 5 Star will not pay for a new engine.

This dude has been out of his truck for quite a while. More than enough time to settle this. Somebody is dragging their feet.

 

[TomC]

After reading thru the warranty their exposure, in this case, seems to be 10k for the motor and 3k for labor. there are so many outs for Stage 3 in their warranty that I would be surprised if anybody could get their engine warrantied. The OP has to get a Ford dealership to tear it down, and do the repairs. And "All payments of warranted work and repairs will be made only to the Authorized Ford Dealership performing any and all work on the Vehicle. No direct payments will be made to You, the Owner of the Vehicle."

The only entity that seems to come out ahead in this case is the dealership.

 

[NeptuneRanger]

I know exactly what they are offering. I'm not an idiot. It's quite simple.

However, it is very strange. No other tuner of any vehicle type, that I know of, offers such a thing. Or ever has. This is an industry first and we are expected to believe that two separate companies decided to do this out of the blue?

Why on earth would Stage 3 take on this responsibility, financial and otherwise?

What if their "pool" is only $15k, they pay for this dudes engine @ $14k, and somebody else whose tune is insured blows an engine?

Why would Stage 3 even take this on without COMPLETE trust in 5 Star? How would they develop that complete trust in a company they are simply a vendor for?

The whole setup seems fishy is all.

If 5 Star offered their own insurance it would make more sense. However, a completely uninvolved vendor offering it does not. Maybe if you could only buy the insurance from 5 Star if you purchase the tune from them, but that is not the case.

To top it off the "insurance" company for lack of a better term doesn't even seem to care what caused the problem.

My prediction. This will not be settled soon. And 5 Star will not pay for a new engine.

This dude has been out of his truck for quite a while. More than enough time to settle this. Somebody is dragging their feet.

For what it is worth I think you are highly intelligent and always enjoy your posts. Didn’t mean any offense.

My take on this is at least the OP has a fighting chance with this warranty. I personally don’t do mods or tunes but if I did, I would consider a legit warranty.

I don’t know either company and can’t speak for them, just guessing 5 Star are tune centric and don’t have the time or expertise to mess with warranty nuances. Stage 3 as a point of sale contact does and probably gets paid to administer the program. Makes sense to me.

I agree with the timing piece, since this is a pure financial contract where money goes to the dealer direct, don’t understand the hold up unless there is a dispute on this contract. Stage 3 can’t and shouldn’t comment on this specific case given the large audience.

Fascinating thread we are all learning as it unfolds.

 

[D Fresh]

heres my take

selling the insurance is a money maker in this case.
the tune is bullet proof.
it didnt cause his engine to blow up. (we could debate for days on what mod or what failure did though)
Ford has an out. He did mods, they refuse warranty.
stage 3 and 5 star have a good tune...it didnt cause this, plus all the disclaimers make it near impossible to make a valid claim on the tune.
back to the middle goes the OP....and he has no where to turn now.
what can he do but go to court and fight?

solution: part out whats left, take the loss and move on?

How can ANYBODY involved, let alone bystanders conclude that the tune is "bulletproof?"

Have we seen datalogs? Has anybody? Are there knock events recorded?

How can you say it's the mods when he was limited to the mods that 5 Star sold and received new tunes for said mods.

If you are correct that the mods caused the failure, then it IS indeed the "bulletproof" tune to be blamed. As 5 Star says they accounted for the mods in the new tunes, at that point the tune becomes to blame.

Long story short NOBODY here can possibly say what caused the failure.

It could be a Ford oil pump failure. It could be a problem with the tune not accounting for the downpipe. It could even be a problem with the downpipe install.

For what it is worth I think you are highly intelligent and always enjoy your posts. Didn’t mean any offense.

No worries, didn't really take any.

You're pretty alright yourself!

My take on this is at least the OP has a fighting chance with this warranty. I personally don’t do mods or tunes but if I did, I would consider a legit warranty.

I don’t know either company and can’t speak for them, just guessing 5 Star are tune centric and don’t have the time or expertise to mess with warranty nuances. Stage 3 as a point of sale contact does and probably gets paid to administer the program. Makes sense to me.

I agree with the timing piece, since this is a pure financial contract where money goes to the dealer direct, don’t understand the hold up unless there is a dispute on this contract. Stage 3 can’t and shouldn’t comment on this specific case given the large audience.

Fascinating thread we are all learning as it unfolds.

I don't have experience with either company myself.

But 5 Star is NOT just a tuner. They are vendors just like Stage 3. They may not offer as many products, but I can't see any insurance expertise that Stage 3 would have over 5 Star.

I can understand why Stage 3 shouldn't comment on the situation, as they are the insurance company in this case. Which is why my questions to them were vague and unrelated to this case. I would think they would be financially vested in determining the root cause of the failure.

However, I would expect 5 Star to chime in in defense of their tune & process. For the sake of their business reputation.

It is fascinating. But in the end I don't think some of us will learn what we want to. Many of us couldn't careless who forks over the money. We just want to know what caused it.

 

[Msfitoy]

Did you throw a rod and how far did it go?

 

[D Fresh]

because i have an opinion...much like you do and i am free to express it...much like you are free to express yours.
if your reading comprehension was as good as your lip service, you would have read we could debate the cause blah blah blah go back and read it again.

Of course you do. I'm just curious what lead you to your opinion that the tune is "bulletproof."

I have been following this thread and thought that your assertion that the tune is "bulletproof" went completely against your earlier point that "we could debate the cause blah, blah, blah."

While I have an opinion, I'm not afraid of changing said opinion. I was curious how you came to your opinion that the tune is bulletproof?

Have you seen datalogs of OP's truck? Nobody else has.

While you are certainly free to have an opinion, you should be able to defend it with logic.

I'll take the lack of logic to mean you just believe it to be "bulletproof" with no factual data to support your claim.

 

[JimG_AZ]

That’s my dilemma... I want to purchase the new Ranger Raptor, and if I sell this or trade it in? Where’s the dollar value?? Would you buy a 2 year old truck with a new engine?? Why did this 2 year old truck, need a new engine?? Was the previous owner dogging it?? No, but I can’t prove that... If he had to replace the engine, is the transmission trashed?? No, but if it was me as a buyer, I’d walk away, and I wouldn’t blame any buyer otherwise... that’s my dilemma... I’m basically screwed... ?

Man, I feel for you. Have you got any quotes from private garages to do the engine swap? Hopefully, you find this route to be way cheaper than what the Ford dealer is charging. It seems to be very evident that the Ford dealer is taking you for a ride here with price gouging. As for being screwed, yes you are possibly out a bunch of money for a motor swap. As far as resale goes, if the motor swap is done correctly, I don’t think you are going to take much of a resale hit at all. It is not like we’re talking about a vehicle that was in a major accident or has a salvage title. Those would look far worse on the title.

Also, if you decide not to mess with it, there is always the option of putting your Ranger on CraigsList with the blown motor. Since you are in a large city, there are a lot of people who are capable of doing the motor swap, or rebuild, in their garage. With how nice your Ranger looks, I’ll bet there is quite a bit of interest. You will certainly lose some money with this option, but I’ll bet it is thousands less than the $14k to do the motor swap.

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