TSB 20-2277 2019-2020 Ranger - Shudder/Vibration When Accelerating From A Stop

[navsnipe]

with a total qty of around 10qts, you think your pump was sucking air over 3/4 low?

you just keep on trying to convince yourself this is the problem.....whatever makes you happy ?

So 3/4 low would have no effect?

Sponsored

 

[Porpoise Hork]

with a total qty of around 10qts, you think your pump was sucking air over 3/4 low?

you just keep on trying to convince yourself this is the problem.....whatever makes you happy ?

Yes, it is certainly a possibility that it could have been sucking up air. Depending on the placement of the pickup filter screen, how far it extends down into the pan, and driving conditions it is absolutely possible that when low there could be small amounts of air getting sucked into the system. The total capacity of the 10R80 transmission is 13 quarts (not 10) and the capacity of the pan is only 3.5 quarts. With that it is entirely possible that in certain situations the system could suck up a small amount of air.

Anyone who has worked on cars can confirm how sensitive some transmissions can be to the fluid level being correct. More times than I can count, have I seen auto transmissions start acting up when they were 1/4 of a quart low while others were perfectly happy with no fluid showing up on the dipstick. That said multiple Mustang owners (same transmission) have reported that simply topping the transmission off to the recommended level with anywhere from a 1/2 qt. to 1 1/2 qts resolved many of the issues hey had been having with their transmissions. The same goes for mine, there is a marked improvement in how the transmission is behaving since they added just 3/4 of a quart of fluid.

 

[Rp930]

Porpoise - Did they reset adaptions on the transmission while you were there?

 

[Porpoise Hork]

"With that it is entirely possible that in certain situations the system could suck up a small amount of air. "

certain situations like what? driving on a flat surface? I might buy into your snake oil theory if you were doing dukes of hazard jumps over rivers and lakes, but seriously, gravity works in your favor and keeps that 3.5 quart pan full with upwards on 10 quarts spread around the rest of the system.

you'd be hard pressed to convince me, even with the backing of the rest of the google warriors that a 6% loss of oil would cause such great concern and problems.

we only will have your word that its been solved...theres really no fact to back it up at this point.

the placebo effect speaks to me in this case.

It's more than evident that either you do not understand the inner workings of automatic transmissions. Or it's that you just take some sort of perverse joy in being an argumentative troll.

The oil pan is a reservoir and in order for the pump to maintain proper pressure and levels in the rest of the system it draws on that reservoir to do just that. At any time there is a state change to the system, ie: acceleration for example the pump draws up fluid at an increased rate. There is a lag between the time fluid is drawn into the pump, up into the system, until it drains back into the pan. At idle you have a pan that should have 3.25-3.5 qts will now only have 3 to 2.5 qts when the vehicle is in motion at a sustained speed. Under hard acceleration for example the reservoir (pan) level could drop to as low as 2 qts or less for a brief period of time. When the system is properly filled these situations will not present an issue, however if the fluid level is low to start with, in the case of mine by 3/4 of a qt. low, the available fluid to ensure the oil pickup port is always submerged is now significantly reduced increasing the possibility that air can get sucked into the system. The amount of air need not be much as even micro-bubbles can cause problems with solenoid valves, clutch packs, as well as lead to excessive cavitation in the torque converter. This cavitation often times will present as shudder or vibration if it is severe enough.

So yes, depending on the transmission and how it's configured, being even slightly low can cause a myriad of actual issues. The simple act of filling it to the proper can/will actually resolve many if not all of them and won't be a placebo effect as this is a mechanical device that is engineered to run within certain conditions.

Take that as you will. If you don't want to accept it that's your problem.

Porpoise - Did they reset adaptions on the transmission while you were there?

No they did not, all they did was check the fluid level and top it off.

 

[Rp930]

It's more than evident that either you do not understand the inner workings of automatic transmissions. Or it's that you just take some sort of perverse joy in being an argumentative troll.

The oil pan is a reservoir and in order for the pump to maintain proper pressure and levels in the rest of the system it draws on that reservoir to do just that. At any time there is a state change to the system, ie: acceleration for example the pump draws up fluid at an increased rate. There is a lag between the time fluid is drawn into the pump, up into the system, until it drains back into the pan. At idle you have a pan that should have 3.25-3.5 qts will now only have 3 to 2.5 qts when the vehicle is in motion at a sustained speed. Under hard acceleration for example the reservoir (pan) level could drop to as low as 2 qts or less for a brief period of time. When the system is properly filled these situations will not present an issue, however if the fluid level is low to start with, in the case of mine by 3/4 of a qt. low, the available fluid to ensure the oil pickup port is always submerged is now significantly reduced increasing the possibility that air can get sucked into the system. The amount of air need not be much as even micro-bubbles can cause problems with solenoid valves, clutch packs, as well as lead to excessive cavitation in the torque converter. This cavitation often times will present as shudder or vibration if it is severe enough.

So yes, depending on the transmission and how it's configured, being even slightly low can cause a myriad of actual issues. The simple act of filling it to the proper can/will actually resolve many if not all of them and won't be a placebo effect as this is a mechanical device that is engineered to run within certain conditions.

Take that as you will. If you don't want to accept it that's your problem.



No they did not, all they did was check the fluid level and top it off.

I was just curious. Anyway glad it’s working for you.

 

[Porpoise Hork]

i only like to argue with morons.
i know exactly how a transmission works, i feel bad you wasted time trying to explain your perception of how one works
if you think its working for you, good on you, but the rainbow your chasing is grasping as best.

Must get a lot of practice in the mirror then.

 

[navsnipe]

Let's keep this thread about information. Don't need it getting locked down it.

 

[GTGallop]

whats the chance it was debris like sand in your wheels?

i know shutting off the truck doesn't solve that, unless it all fell out in that period....just grasping at straws
otherwise, i suppose you could have a lagging shift problem

I'm infrequent like that too. I think mine is tied more to the cols start rough shift shudder than the pinion angle.

 

[CompDude]

I am getting ready to test drive some Rangers from reading this thread I am going to test in the following way to check for vibration.

Stop and go several times at varying acceleration to around 15-20 mph
Then out on the highway cruising at 70-80
You all think this is sufficient?

 

[navsnipe]

I am getting ready to test drive some Rangers from reading this thread I am going to test in the following way to check for vibration.

Stop and go several times at varying acceleration to around 15-20 mph
Then out on the highway cruising at 70-80
You all think this is sufficieThe take-off shudder, for me, is in the 10 to 15 mph range. I would recommend going to a relatively empty parking lot and drive in that speed range to see if the shudder is constant, if th

The take-off shudder, for me, is in the 10 to 15 mph range. Definitely test from a stop and vary your acceleration styles to see if it occurs. Also testing at all speeds including the highway speeds you mentioned will reveal any driveline imbalance which may be separate from the take-off shudder.

Make sure the dealership sets the tire pressure at the specified values, the sticker can be found on the inside of the drivers door jamb. Many dealerships have the tire pressures very high, 40 to 45psi, and the rough ride may mask the shudder and diminish ride quality.

Hopefully you have a shudder free test drive.

 

[CompDude]

The take-off shudder, for me, is in the 10 to 15 mph range. Definitely test from a stop and vary your acceleration styles to see if it occurs. Also testing at all speeds including the highway speeds you mentioned will reveal any driveline imbalance which may be separate from the take-off shudder.

Make sure the dealership sets the tire pressure at the specified values, the sticker can be found on the inside of the drivers door jamb. Many dealerships have the tire pressures very high, 40 to 45psi, and the rough ride may mask the shudder and diminish ride quality.

Hopefully you have a shudder free test drive.

Thanks I forgot about the tire pressure.

 

[navsnipe]

More on my shudder saga. Took my truck to another Ford dealer. Explained how I believe the TSB wasn't properly performed. Got a call back that the techs were going nuts trying to figure out why the TSB measured angle was 0.3° when it should be 5 to 6°. They agreed it wasn't done right. Parts on order, then they will be putting it back stock, taking measurements and applying shims as necessary.

 

[kieefer]

We need to get the part numbers of these shims so us grease monkeys can fix it ourselves.

 

[navsnipe]

We need to get the part numbers of these shims so us grease monkeys can fix it ourselves.

The TSB shim kit is KB3Z-4C088-B. It lists at $790.03, sale price $535.64 from a google search of online Ford dealers sites. According to the TSB "The service kit contains all of the parts necessary for the adjustment procedure. The rear axle pinion angle can be changed by adding a 0.5, 1, 1.5, or 2 degree rear axle pinion angle shims"

Pretty expensive set of shims.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

The TSB shim kit is KB3Z-4C088-B. It lists at $790.03, sale price $535.64 from a google search of online Ford dealers sites. According to the TSB "The service kit contains all of the parts necessary for the adjustment procedure. The rear axle pinion angle can be changed by adding a 0.5, 1, 1.5, or 2 degree rear axle pinion angle shims"

Pretty expensive set of shims.

Hi Dave,

I think it behooves you to take the Ranger to the Dealer and let Ford eat the cost if shims are necessary. For those DYI folks....not worth the expense to install a shim....evaluate and install another one....Does not make financial or DYI sense. Unfortunately there are many folks trying to avoid the dealer, and for good reason....many dealers are terrible for service. Sad!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Sponsored