How Many Have Saggy Leather Seats?

[Robert Scott]

My post was #38. Like I stated the seats in my repurchased 2019 (lemon) were fine, but the seats in my 2020 are CRAP. My dealership has ordered all new seat, back and front, cushions and backrests. If the new seats are poor quality, they will send them to an upholstery shop. rdgallo I too dealt with Ford Customer Care, dealing with Donna H. I soon realized that is all they do----contact your dealership, not Ford. She was forgetful and not well organized. If your dealership sucks, maybe so do your chances for a good outcome.

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[rdgallo]

Hi Nick and others,

Drat...my former Vehicle Engineering engineer that moved to Seat Comford just retired, so mi inside contact to seating is now happily retired and unavailable to provide any info on Ranger....

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Hi, Phil. When I worked for Caterpillar (as a Senior Quality Engineer), we had a definitive method for addressing supplier quality issues. I will simplify it a bit here. Whenever we encountered a quality problem that was a supplier issue, we would notify the supplier of the parts and corral all in house parts provided by this supplier so we could inspect them. We would also notify our parts systems of the issue so they could inspect and purge defective parts from the parts depots. We would continue to monitor incoming shipments of the parts from the supplier to assure he had fixed the issue. If the unacceptable parts had already been installed in sold product, we would notify our Service Engineering Dept. so they could address product at dealers or in customer hands. This is a very simplified example (obviously there are other steps that were taken, but for the sake of keeping this brief, I have not covered all of them). Does Ford have something similar? I am concerned that our complaints we make to the dealers and Ford Customer Support never get back to the source. I would love Ford to address this seat cover issue and then provide me/my dealer with known, good seat covers. My seat covers were replaced yesterday with nonacceptable covers probably right out of Ford Parts stock. If my dealer orders them again, the odds of the newly ordered covers being acceptable are slim and none. This seems like a very simple thing to fix....or maybe not. Thanks for any info.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Hi, Phil. When I worked for Caterpillar (as a Senior Quality Engineer), we had a definitive method for addressing supplier quality issues. I will simplify it a bit here. Whenever we encountered a quality problem that was a supplier issue, we would notify the supplier of the parts and corral all in house parts provided by this supplier so we could inspect them. We would also notify our parts systems of the issue so they could inspect and purge defective parts from the parts depots. We would continue to monitor incoming shipments of the parts from the supplier to assure he had fixed the issue. If the unacceptable parts had already been installed in sold product, we would notify our Service Engineering Dept. so they could address product at dealers or in customer hands. This is a very simplified example (obviously there are other steps that were taken, but for the sake of keeping this brief, I have not covered all of them). Does Ford have something similar? I am concerned that our complaints we make to the dealers and Ford Customer Support never get back to the source. I would love Ford to address this seat cover issue and then provide me/my dealer with known, good seat covers. My seat covers were replaced yesterday with nonacceptable covers probably right out of Ford Parts stock. If my dealer orders them again, the odds of the newly ordered covers being acceptable are slim and none. This seems like a very simple thing to fix....or maybe not. Thanks for any info.

Hi Ron,

Yes Ford has a similar system for defective parts/vendor quality. We have SQA..Supplier Quality Assurance that handle these issures. Your best bet is Ford Customer Service...they consolidate and feed systemic issues to SQA and SQA may involve engineering if necessary...Unfortunately this can be a very slow process and most customers want fixes ASAP...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[rdgallo]

Hi Ron,

Yes Ford has a similar system for defective parts/vendor quality. We have SQA..Supplier Quality Assurance that handle these issures. Your best bet is Ford Customer Service...they consolidate and feed systemic issues to SQA and SQA may involve engineering if necessary...Unfortunately this can be a very slow process and most customers want fixes ASAP...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Thanks for the information, Phil. I guess I will just leave it in the Customer Care arena. The poor lady I am dealing is trying very hard to resolve this issue, but is beside herself as it appears there is no fix for it right now. I just sent her an email asking if we could just keep the case open until Ford finally has better seat covers (hopefully they will some day). Have a great evening, Phil.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Thanks for the information, Phil. I guess I will just leave it in the Customer Care arena. The poor lady I am dealing is trying very hard to resolve this issue, but is beside herself as it appears there is no fix for it right now. I just sent her an email asking if we could just keep the case open until Ford finally has better seat covers (hopefully they will some day). Have a great evening, Phil.

Hi Ron,

The lady needs to elevate this concern. The Supplier of seats, who I do not know who it is. Likely needs to address this concern. It may fall back on Ford's shoulders.

Allow me a back story...

The Supplier for Ranger back in the year 2000 was put into the middle by Mazda. We built their B2000 for Mazda, who we owned at the time, but Mazda had some input on making the B2000 unique from the Ranger, more than just the grill and the tailgate and fender badging. Mazda wanted a leather trim interior of for their luxury model and Ford had to do the design and release. That is how I got involved. The idea was to just do a leather upholstery of the existing seats. The supplier balked as they said that the under cushions need to be revised as leather needed a different underlayment, so to speak. Mazda balked at the cost and demanded leather on the existing seat. So the supplier developed two seats for evaluation, one with existing underlayment as Mazda demanded and one with revised underlayment. The difference was noticable as the revised seat looked exceptionally good compared to the Mazda non revised seat. So the supplier caved and the leather trim was launched on the B2000 luxury model. Almost immediately, the dealers began to gripe about the poor interior appearance...My next plant visit, I evaluated some of the B2000 vehicles and agreed, the interior seating looked wrinkled and like it had 100,000 miles on the vehicle...Mazda held firm for a model year and then quietly deleted the option. I had no idea, not being an expert in seating... So it may be with the 2019 Ranger with leather trim that the cushions are not really designed for leather....I do not know...just relaying my experience with Ranger/Mazda at the time on my watch..

Mazda was a PITA with which to deal. The stateside people they hired were so arrogant.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[2020FX4]

UGH! I noticed my seats a week after buying it were getting a little saggy.... My ranger is only 3 weeks old now. I was wondering if I was the only one until I saw this thread today.

 

[Anthony]

Savage Geese actually specific references the saggy leather seats in his new Explorer review. 4K miles on the truck and they have serious saggy folds in them.

 

[rdgallo]

Hi Ron,

The lady needs to elevate this concern. The Supplier of seats, who I do not know who it is. Likely needs to address this concern. It may fall back on Ford's shoulders.

Allow me a back story...

The Supplier for Ranger back in the year 2000 was put into the middle by Mazda. We built their B2000 for Mazda, who we owned at the time, but Mazda had some input on making the B2000 unique from the Ranger, more than just the grill and the tailgate and fender badging. Mazda wanted a leather trim interior of for their luxury model and Ford had to do the design and release. That is how I got involved. The idea was to just do a leather upholstery of the existing seats. The supplier balked as they said that the under cushions need to be revised as leather needed a different underlayment, so to speak. Mazda balked at the cost and demanded leather on the existing seat. So the supplier developed two seats for evaluation, one with existing underlayment as Mazda demanded and one with revised underlayment. The difference was noticable as the revised seat looked exceptionally good compared to the Mazda non revised seat. So the supplier caved and the leather trim was launched on the B2000 luxury model. Almost immediately, the dealers began to gripe about the poor interior appearance...My next plant visit, I evaluated some of the B2000 vehicles and agreed, the interior seating looked wrinkled and like it had 100,000 miles on the vehicle...Mazda held firm for a model year and then quietly deleted the option. I had no idea, not being an expert in seating... So it may be with the 2019 Ranger with leather trim that the cushions are not really designed for leather....I do not know...just relaying my experience with Ranger/Mazda at the time on my watch..

Mazda was a PITA with which to deal. The stateside people they hired were so arrogant.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Thanks, Phil. Very interesting read. I don't know what the problem is with the new Ranger seats, but the correct people need to know about it. I am not sure how to get the issue elevated at Ford. I have told my Customer Care Rep that that is what needs to be done, but I don't feel really confident that it will happen.

 

[Mokume]

Thanks, Phil. Very interesting read. I don't know what the problem is with the new Ranger seats, but the correct people need to know about it. I am not sure how to get the issue elevated at Ford. I have told my Customer Care Rep that that is what needs to be done, but I don't feel really confident that it will happen.

While I know my response here does nothing to address the issue here, I intend to install Wet Okole seat covers on my 2020 because all my previous Rangers had them and they did a marvelous job of protecting the fabric upholstery. Attached is an image of my 2000's seats after I removed the seat covers.

The black leather seat covers on my truck suffer from the same issue, not only on the cushion area, but the bolsters are noticeably wrinkled as well.
Indeed, such appearances does not befit a vehicle in which someone can potentially spend 40K + on, but it's been my personal experience that collateral damages can occur with removing and replacing the seats from the vehicle, such as damaging surrounding plastic trim and scratches on the door sills.

As for the overall build quality of the truck, I'm completely satisfied both in and out, this is the best assembled Ford I've owned and worked on to date. All body and trim pieces are fitted well, with even gaps and seams, all 4 doors latch with a re-assuring clunk, and do not need slamming to do so. Under the hood, Ford has progressed light years with the overall visual experience, it seems as though they've taken cues from certain Asian automobile manufacturers here, who, IMO are masters at this. They only detraction's are the "Jiffy-Pop" appearing heat insulation used and the occasional un-raveling of the black tape used on the wiring near the connectors. The material chosen for the engine cover is suspect though, it appears to be some sort of closed cell foam, in time I know this cover will disintegrate from heat and possibly rodents developing a fondness for it, but then, this is not an assembly issue, rather an engineering or cost

choice.

When given the chance, I inspect family and friend's new vehicles for build quality and can truthfully say this truck ranks high on my list.
To quote some advertising slogans from the past "The Closer You Look, the Better We Look" and "You've Come a Long Way, Baby", well, Amen to that.

 

[Onlyone]

The issue is the foam. The foam under the leather is what gives the leather is longevity. As soon as the foam breaks down, so goes the leather. They probably compromised on the soft side, which lets the the leather wrinkle, vs a bit harder which keeps it snug. Of course some people would complain that it’s too hard on long drives. In my opinion, they should have continued the stitch. That would have hidden the fact they used softer foam.

 

[Mokume]

The issue is the foam. The foam under the leather is what gives the leather is longevity. As soon as the foam breaks down, so goes the leather. They probably compromised on the soft side, which lets the the leather wrinkle, vs a bit harder which keeps it snug. Of course some people would complain that it’s too hard on long drives. In my opinion, they should have continued the stitch. That would have hidden the fact they used softer foam.

Sounds logical, and yes, I agree that they should of continued the stitching.
The upholstery used appears to be stiffer than other leather I've seen, as in Lincolns in the 80's -2000's, or "faux" leather... possibly compounding the problem?

 

[Onlyone]

Sounds logical, and yes, I agree that they should of continued the stitching.
The upholstery used appears to be stiffer than other leather I've seen, as in Lincolns in the 80's -2000's, or "faux" leather... possibly compounding the problem?

Definitely not as soft. I have done several leather upholstery jobs and almost always add a little foam to firm up the seats.

 

[rdgallo]

Hi Ron,

The lady needs to elevate this concern. The Supplier of seats, who I do not know who it is. Likely needs to address this concern. It may fall back on Ford's shoulders.

Allow me a back story...

The Supplier for Ranger back in the year 2000 was put into the middle by Mazda. We built their B2000 for Mazda, who we owned at the time, but Mazda had some input on making the B2000 unique from the Ranger, more than just the grill and the tailgate and fender badging. Mazda wanted a leather trim interior of for their luxury model and Ford had to do the design and release. That is how I got involved. The idea was to just do a leather upholstery of the existing seats. The supplier balked as they said that the under cushions need to be revised as leather needed a different underlayment, so to speak. Mazda balked at the cost and demanded leather on the existing seat. So the supplier developed two seats for evaluation, one with existing underlayment as Mazda demanded and one with revised underlayment. The difference was noticable as the revised seat looked exceptionally good compared to the Mazda non revised seat. So the supplier caved and the leather trim was launched on the B2000 luxury model. Almost immediately, the dealers began to gripe about the poor interior appearance...My next plant visit, I evaluated some of the B2000 vehicles and agreed, the interior seating looked wrinkled and like it had 100,000 miles on the vehicle...Mazda held firm for a model year and then quietly deleted the option. I had no idea, not being an expert in seating... So it may be with the 2019 Ranger with leather trim that the cushions are not really designed for leather....I do not know...just relaying my experience with Ranger/Mazda at the time on my watch..

Mazda was a PITA with which to deal. The stateside people they hired were so arrogant.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

My Ford Customer Care lady sent me an email a bit ago telling me she could not keep my issue open for resolution at a later date. I told her that was ok and asked her what the fix is then. I also strongly suggested she elevate the issue to someone at Ford, because the fix would require more horsepower than she has. I did not say like that in my email, but made it very obvious that is what she needed to do. Now I wait to hear back from her. I feel sorry for her as she acts like she doesn't have many options in her efforts to help me.

 

[Sandman Ranger]

I do not think this issue will be corrected.
Even if seat replaced you will have an issue in time.
Leather will stretch and form over time. Heat from seat heater and body will aid this shaping to match your back side. The large flat leather panels are the issue.

Katzkins seat replacements have a better design. The perforated material would also help. An Audi diamond stitch pattern will also help as it breaks issue into smaller sections. On the Katzkin sight they show a diamond pattern option. Not sure if it can be added to Ranger seat but if I upgrade my XLT this will be a question of mine when I design the interior.
My thoughts and suggestions.

If Ford blames supplier, will not be the first time!
Keep in mind, Ford designs or approves the design and specs the seats.

 

[Willcuts93]

I'm not saying there isn't an issue with these seats but my scrawny ass has done this to every leather seat I've owned. My 2011 Flex Limited and 2014 Fusion even had stitching across the cusion cover and it still bubbled like that.

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