Towing the Line?

[Frenchy]

'Going downhill or in crosswinds requires extra attention" should be a concerning statement. What percent is the tongue weight at? Seriously, you may want to look at a better hitch. The Pro Pride of the Hensely Hitch (both designed by the same guy) would probably make a significant difference. They are not cheap, but going to a better hitch is way cheaper than upgrading to a F-150.

I don't care what Hitch you have. If the vehicle Manufacturer States a Specific Maximum Tongue Weight and Maximum Trailer Weight then that is going to be the Maximum Allowed no matter what. Ford has Rated the Ranger for a Maximum Towing Capacity of 7500 LBS with a Maximum Tongue Weight of 750 LBS. Even with a Hitch that has a higher rating the Vehicle rating is what you Follow.

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[JimG_AZ]

I don't care what Hitch you have. If the vehicle Manufacturer States a Specific Maximum Tongue Weight and Maximum Trailer Weight then that is going to be the Maximum Allowed no matter what. Ford has Rated the Ranger for a Maximum Towing Capacity of 7500 LBS with a Maximum Tongue Weight of 750 LBS. Even with a Hitch that has a higher rating the Vehicle rating is what you Follow.

Since you quoted me, I never recommended he look for a hitch with a higher capacity. What would be more concerning to me would be a sway condition, even if he is under the tow ratings. If this is the case, using a hitch that would geometrically move the pivot point from behind the tow vehicles rear bumper to the rear axle would make a huge difference.

 

[ctechbob]

I'm going to step in here as a bit of a grammar/tow police thing.

Couple notes.

Just because you have to pay extra attention going down a hill or in crosswind conditions doesn't automatically mean you condemn the towing setup and look for solutions. I guarantee you that 18 wheelers and guys towing 5th wheels in their F450's should pay extra attention in those cases as well. They all feel the wind too, there's nothing odd about it.

Now, as to the use of the word 'sway'.

Being pushed by wind, or trucks, or whatever outside force. This is not 'sway'....IF the assembly goes immediately back to tracking straight. Watch some 18 wheelers passing each other, or dealing with wind, they move around too.....although, I have seen a few of them swaying, usually they're the tandem trucks.

Sway, is an unwanted oscillation that occurs AFTER the setup is disturbed*. If your trailer doesn't immediately go back to tracking true after you pass a truck, or after you hit a gust of wind, then you have sway and should look for things to tweak to mitigate it.

Most people use 'sway' to mean any unwanted motion of the rig, when that's just not the right way to describe it.

*or as a result of suspension rebounding out of control usually at higher speed.

There's nothing wrong with your rig moving around a little when disturbed provided that is within your comfort/skill level. Some people can't tolerate that and should absolutely get a bigger truck. Of course, some people shouldn't be towing in the first place.

I worry way more about the people with 1/2 tons and larger dragging ass down the road with their entire house in the bed, 5 kids in the back, a dog, and a 24 foot trailer than I do with @Grumpaw and I with our 30 foot units rolling dead level and in control.

 

[Grumpaw]

Since you quoted me, I never recommended he look for a hitch with a higher capacity. What would be more concerning to me would be a sway condition, even if he is under the tow ratings. If this is the case, using a hitch that would geometrically move the pivot point from behind the tow vehicles rear bumper to the rear axle would make a huge difference.

Wrong.....moving the pivot point has nothing to do with getting rid of "sway".
The vast majority of "sway" problems are the result of the trailer, no matter what kind, being improperly loaded, with more weight placed behind the trailer axle/s. It's an ass heavy situation.
If too much weight is placed behind the trailer axle, it will almost always result in sway.....I have seen F-350's and GM Heavy Duty trucks, towing small trailers, in a sway condition.
Changing pivot point is not a solution if the trailer is still loaded wrong....a pick up towing a 5th wheel trailer has the hitch weight either over or forward of the rear axle, but if the trailer is ass heavy, will still end up in a sway condition.
If the trailer is properly loaded with proper weight distribution.....yes, it will/may be "pushed" by passing big rigs, or wind gusts, but it will come back to a stable tow.
But if improperly loaded, than the "push" by big rigs or wind can easily lead to a sway problem....the big rig or wind will just "start" it leading to a more violent "sway" that is hard to recover from.
The best/easiest way to recover from a "sway" is to apply ONLY the trailer brakes which will bring the trailer back to a straight tow position and end the sway.
In a bad sway, if you hit the combination of the truck/trailer brake, hard, like a panic braking, you will most likely end up in a fishtail situation as the trailer is still unstable, and will want to come around the tow vehicle.

 

[KJRR]

I'm going to step in here as a bit of a grammar/tow police thing.

Care to police the the use of lugging? ?

 

[JimG_AZ]

Wrong.....moving the pivot point has nothing to do with getting rid of "sway".
The vast majority of "sway" problems are the result of the trailer, no matter what kind, being improperly loaded, with more weight placed behind the trailer axle/s. It's an ass heavy situation.
If too much weight is placed behind the trailer axle, it will almost always result in sway.....I have seen F-350's and GM Heavy Duty trucks, towing small trailers, in a sway condition.
Changing pivot point is not a solution if the trailer is still loaded wrong....a pick up towing a 5th wheel trailer has the hitch weight either over or forward of the rear axle, but if the trailer is ass heavy, will still end up in a sway condition.
If the trailer is properly loaded with proper weight distribution.....yes, it will/may be "pushed" by passing big rigs, or wind gusts, but it will come back to a stable tow.
But if improperly loaded, than the "push" by big rigs or wind can easily lead to a sway problem....the big rig or wind will just "start" it leading to a more violent "sway" that is hard to recover from.
The best/easiest way to recover from a "sway" is to apply ONLY the trailer brakes which will bring the trailer back to a straight tow position and end the sway.
In a bad sway, if you hit the combination of the truck/trailer brake, hard, like a panic braking, you will most likely end up in a fishtail situation as the trailer is still unstable, and will want to come around the tow vehicle.

You are absolutely correct that moving the pivot point closer to the rear axle will do nothing for getting rid of sway. The person with the towing issue stated that "going downhill or in crosswinds requires extra attention". I do not recall him mentioning that he had sway issues driving down the highway in normal conditions. He also stated that if done again, he would buy an F-150 for the longer WB. That is where moving the pivot point to the rear axle would make a difference. He did say that he weighed the rig on a Cat Scale. It would be very interesting to see what percentage of weight is on the trailer tongue.

 

[JimG_AZ]

I'm going to step in here as a bit of a grammar/tow police thing.

Couple notes.

Just because you have to pay extra attention going down a hill or in crosswind conditions doesn't automatically mean you condemn the towing setup and look for solutions. I guarantee you that 18 wheelers and guys towing 5th wheels in their F450's should pay extra attention in those cases as well. They all feel the wind too, there's nothing odd about it.

Have you ever pulled a 5th wheel?

 

[Grumpaw]

Have you ever pulled a 5th wheel?

I don't know about ctechbob, but I have pulled everything from a 16 foot, 19 foot, 24 foot 29 foot, 32 foot travel trailer, to a 34 foot 5th wheel, had class c and class a motor homes, pulling a small car behind. What is your point ?
Everything he stated from windy conditions to towing down hill/grade condition is spot on....one must always use caution when towing under those conditions.

 

[Jhbryaniv]

Physics isn't trailer dependant...

 

[JimG_AZ]

Physics isn't trailer dependant...

Where Physics comes into play is at the pivot point. If I have a car and I want to push the back end sideways. Which is easier: (1) stand right where the back tires are and push sideways; or (2) attach a bar to the rear differential that extends 40"-48" rearward and push from there? I'll take (2) every time. On most trucks, the hitch ball will be stilling somewhere @ 40-48" aft of the rear axle. So, if I stand there and push on the bar, it will require less force to move the car sideways than it would if I were standing at the rear axle and pushing from there.

 

[Grumpaw]

Where Physics comes into play is at the pivot point. If I have a car and I want to push the back end sideways. Which is easier: (1) stand right where the back tires are and push sideways; or (2) attach a bar to the rear differential that extends 40"-48" rearward and push from there? I'll take (2) every time. On most trucks, the hitch ball will be stilling somewhere @ 40-48" aft of the rear axle. So, if I stand there and push on the bar, it will require less force to move the car sideways than it would if I were standing at the rear axle and pushing from there.

Your reasoning is OK if the rear just glided on bearings....but the rear push your describing does not take into consideration the friction between the tires and the road surface,,,,,your trying to push a forward rolling tire, sideways as in a drift. And, if it was just the truck itself, that is what would happen....it would drift until the rear tires lost total traction, and go into a slide rotating around....no sway involved
In a sway situation, the trailer tires are the ones that are going to break away as the sway/oscillations get worse and worse. The trailer will break away first, trying to jack-knife, and when it does, it will pull the truck around with it.
The truck does not start the sway situation, the trailer does.

 

[ctechbob]

Have you ever pulled a 5th wheel?

Yes, many thousands of miles.

I've been meaning to get into the attic to find the pictures. Used to be part of my job to run around the US representing an audio manufacturer.

 

[JimG_AZ]

Your reasoning is OK if the rear just glided on bearings....but the rear push your describing does not take into consideration the friction between the tires and the road surface,,,,,your trying to push a forward rolling tire, sideways as in a drift. And, if it was just the truck itself, that is what would happen....it would drift until the rear tires lost total traction, and go into a slide rotating around....no sway involved
In a sway situation, the trailer tires are the ones that are going to break away as the sway/oscillations get worse and worse. The trailer will break away first, trying to jack-knife, and when it does, it will pull the truck around with it.
The truck does not start the sway situation, the trailer does.

Interesting points. Even if the vehicle was rolling, the tire friction should be consistent regardless of where the pivot point is. If that is true, it would still be easier to push the tow vehicle sideways from the hitch ball, aft of the rear bumper, than from the rear axle. Not sure if this is applicable, but years ago I used to love to waterski. I skied behind a bunch of different boats ranging from 17' to 21' bow riders and Fish and Ski's. If we used a harness that attached the ski rope from two trailer tie down hooks on the boat's transom, a good slalom skier could easily whip the back end of the boat around. If the ski tow rope attached to a hook at the transom, it became harder to pull the back end of the boat around. If the ski rope was attached to a pylon in front of the motor, we could not push the back end of the boat around.

 

[SumsloppyRanger]

I got to thinking since there's no real way to increase the Ranger tongue weight capacity, I'm not planning on loading anything toy wise inside keep my tanks empty when traveling and possibly relocate the two propane tanks from the tongue of the R.V. would that lower it to within the Rangers scale of towability?

 

[Big Blue]

I got to thinking since there's no real way to increase the Ranger tongue weight capacity, I'm not planning on loading anything toy wise inside keep my tanks empty when traveling and possibly relocate the two propane tanks from the tongue of the R.V. would that lower it to within the Rangers scale of towability?

I have to ask. If you are not planning on loading anything toy wise, why are you looking at a toy hauler trailer. They are specifically designed to have heavy toys loaded in the back. Their axles are located further back to offset the additional weight and actually use it to reduce the tongue weight, to get it back in the optimal 10 to 15 percent range.

If you really need a trailer that large. Your best bet is to look at other similar sized non-toy hauler trailers that fit within the Rangers weight limits.

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