The Lima Motor I would say has proven itself.

fusseli

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My garage space taker upper

15025634_10100845606834373_1373549452123843680_o - Copy.jpg
 

Mastodon

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All start with the Pinto.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone complain about the engine in a Pinto, unless for the standard SMOG controls of the era. Usually it’s always about the fuel tank.

They don’t even talk about the company politics. I think I remember reading something some time ago about Ford could fix the Pinto for something like $11 per car, but chose not to because would cut into their profit too much. Obviously some things never change, or else the Ranger would still have all of it’s tie down straps and folding headrests.
 

P. A. Schilke

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Hi Brian,

Believe it or not...I had a role in the 2.0L Lima motor...not by choice but my Executive Engineer, Dave G knew I was a racer and a gear head... Dave decided we needed an entry level Ranger with a "smaller" engine, so approached Engine Engineering.... He got the go soak your head. Not one to take no, he called me into his office...Now I am three to 4 levels below him. He told me we were going to so a 2.0L motor and I was lead...I had no wish for this but found myself in a career ending situation if I refused, so off to do a 2.0L Two years and some sleepless nights we delivered a 2.0L Ranger to market. It was a poor seller but volumes were such it broke even on investment.

As far as the Pinto...base was a 1.6L Kent (England), German 2.0L and a Lima 2.3 later in the Pinto life cycle.

Much maligned flammability of the Pinto is another story. Rear of the car folded like tin foil. There was a rear facing differential bolt at one spot on the diff that acted as a can opener for the fuel tank. The how and why of this bolt facing the wrong way is still subject to speculation...It should not been there... And so the recall finally put a puncture shield as the fix which was maligned by the press etc... Ford behaved poorly in my mind and that image haunts Ford to this day...

My Pinto, a 1.6 Kent engine twisting to 8500 rpm won its fair share of races before I went to the SuperVee....

71 BS Pinto.jpg


The backwards Scrap on the nose was Small Car Racing and Performance...my side business at the time... The racers told me the Pinto was a pig...yep...a Pig! I made it a very fast Pig! You would not believe the suspension under the body...No way it should work, but it did!

Best,
Phil
 


Ranger in Maine

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Hi Brian,

Believe it or not...I had a role in the 2.0L Lima motor...not by choice but my Executive Engineer, Dave G knew I was a racer and a gear head... Dave decided we needed an entry level Ranger with a "smaller" engine, so approached Engine Engineering.... He got the go soak your head. Not one to take no, he called me into his office...Now I am three to 4 levels below him. He told me we were going to so a 2.0L motor and I was lead...I had no wish for this but found myself in a career ending situation if I refused, so off to do a 2.0L Two years and some sleepless nights we delivered a 2.0L Ranger to market. It was a poor seller but volumes were such it broke even on investment.

As far as the Pinto...base was a 1.6L Kent (England), German 2.0L and a Lima 2.3 later in the Pinto life cycle.

Much maligned flammability of the Pinto is another story. Rear of the car folded like tin foil. There was a rear facing differential bolt at one spot on the diff that acted as a can opener for the fuel tank. The how and why of this bolt facing the wrong way is still subject to speculation...It should not been there... And so the recall finally put a puncture shield as the fix which was maligned by the press etc... Ford behaved poorly in my mind and that image haunts Ford to this day...

My Pinto, a 1.6 Kent engine twisting to 8500 rpm won its fair share of races before I went to the SuperVee....

71 BS Pinto.jpg


The backwards Scrap on the nose was Small Car Racing and Performance...my side business at the time... The racers told me the Pinto was a pig...yep...a Pig! I made it a very fast Pig! You would not believe the suspension under the body...No way it should work, but it did!

Best,
Phil
Hi Phil, love your advice & stories. I thought I remembered you mentioning SuperVee before. Curious if you knew of a Ray Weaver. I knew him as a service advisor at Four J Motors in Huntington Park , California. He was a super guy, he helped me with many VW’s through the 60’s & 70’s. Last I heard he was also inArizona.

Take care of yourself & your Margie & the tortoise!
Dave
 

drvred

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Hi Brian,

Believe it or not...I had a role in the 2.0L Lima motor...not by choice but my Executive Engineer, Dave G knew I was a racer and a gear head... Dave decided we needed an entry level Ranger with a "smaller" engine, so approached Engine Engineering.... He got the go soak your head. Not one to take no, he called me into his office...Now I am three to 4 levels below him. He told me we were going to so a 2.0L motor and I was lead...I had no wish for this but found myself in a career ending situation if I refused, so off to do a 2.0L Two years and some sleepless nights we delivered a 2.0L Ranger to market. It was a poor seller but volumes were such it broke even on investment.

As far as the Pinto...base was a 1.6L Kent (England), German 2.0L and a Lima 2.3 later in the Pinto life cycle.

Much maligned flammability of the Pinto is another story. Rear of the car folded like tin foil. There was a rear facing differential bolt at one spot on the diff that acted as a can opener for the fuel tank. The how and why of this bolt facing the wrong way is still subject to speculation...It should not been there... And so the recall finally put a puncture shield as the fix which was maligned by the press etc... Ford behaved poorly in my mind and that image haunts Ford to this day...

My Pinto, a 1.6 Kent engine twisting to 8500 rpm won its fair share of races before I went to the SuperVee....

71 BS Pinto.jpg


The backwards Scrap on the nose was Small Car Racing and Performance...my side business at the time... The racers told me the Pinto was a pig...yep...a Pig! I made it a very fast Pig! You would not believe the suspension under the body...No way it should work, but it did!

Best,
Phil
The DC region of SCCA that races at Summit Point at one time had a GT Pinto class, always fun to watch.
I don't know if it has faded out or not.
And I have owned a 1.6 Capri, a 2.0 Capri, and a Tbird with the 2.3 Turbo.
 

db_tanker

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Seeing what the UK was able to do with the 4 cylinder Ford engines in their Escorts were awesome. Of course, some help from Cosworth never hurt :p
 

Fitzmotor

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We ran a 2.0 in a mini stock, spun it to 10,200 every Sat night, had to put a heat treated crank in it every 2 races as the 16:1 comp ratio would groove the Nitrided crank badly, welded the chambers to get the compression, ran 4 round slide snowmobile carbs, really potent package, we were in pick a part every other week, scavenging cranks, now those engines are hard to find.

And I'm old enough to say, I did that recall on Pinto's as a Ford tech.

The story goes, 4 college kids stopped in the middle of the road just over a rise in the road to steal a sign from the side of the road, as soon as they got back in the Pinto, along came a car at speed and the 4 wheel road flare was born, it was sad.

Always been a great engine, so much so that Dan Esslinger (of Esslinger Engineering) went on to copy it in aluminum, improve on it and turn it into one of the most affordable, fast Midget race engines ever, it's still being used!!
 

P. A. Schilke

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We ran a 2.0 in a mini stock, spun it to 10,200 every Sat night, had to put a heat treated crank in it every 2 races as the 16:1 comp ratio would groove the Nitrided crank badly, welded the chambers to get the compression, ran 4 round slide snowmobile carbs, really potent package, we were in pick a part every other week, scavenging cranks, now those engines are hard to find.

And I'm old enough to say, I did that recall on Pinto's as a Ford tech.

The story goes, 4 college kids stopped in the middle of the road just over a rise in the road to steal a sign from the side of the road, as soon as they got back in the Pinto, along came a car at speed and the 4 wheel road flare was born, it was sad.

Always been a great engine, so much so that Dan Esslinger (of Esslinger Engineering) went on to copy it in aluminum, improve on it and turn it into one of the most affordable, fast Midget race engines ever, it's still being used!!
Hi Mike,

Yeah...Dan and I had a rocky relationship...I wanted to see what the new Mazda 2.3L would do so gave Thompson Automotive $100K and a few motors and told Brian Thompson to not call until the dyno pulls showed at least 320 hp... Dan was not pleased, with all the effort he had in place for the Lima motor.... I think it was Hot Rod magazine that featured Thompson's work as it was on the front cover with the title Ford Banger.... Then Ford and Mazda parted ways and the Mazda motor was never developed for full potential. At the time the Esslinger was about 340hp and the Mazda was at 350hp with some potential untapped... Oh well.....

My SCCA Racetruck test mule had a 2.85L Lima motor....Ran like scalded dog! Crank was a Dearborn shell molded crank but we switched to Moldex.

Best,
Phil
 
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Fitzmotor

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Ha, Dan is good at what he does but we have also had a rocky relationship, we were ahead of his Esslinger sponsored car (Kenny Smith) in the points battle, the rules were stock iron block and head, he got the association to allow his de-stroked 2.3 with the aluminum head, (as a series sponsor they didn't say no to him) we still won some races but ultimately finished 2nd in the championship, there were other things that had us at odds, questionable parts that failed, but my favorite was the sponsorship rule that said we HAD to run the Esslinger sticker on our car, but they didn't stipulate where (yet) so when they questioned us, we pointed to the muffler, we were proudly displaying the stickers on the muffler, next race it was mandatory on the body. LOL!!
 

P. A. Schilke

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Ha, Dan is good at what he does but we have also had a rocky relationship, we were ahead of his Esslinger sponsored car (Kenny Smith) in the points battle, the rules were stock iron block and head, he got the association to allow his de-stroked 2.3 with the aluminum head, (as a series sponsor they didn't say no to him) we still won some races but ultimately finished 2nd in the championship, there were other things that had us at odds, questionable parts that failed, but my favorite was the sponsorship rule that said we HAD to run the Esslinger sticker on our car, but they didn't stipulate where (yet) so when they questioned us, we pointed to the muffler, we were proudly displaying the stickers on the muffler, next race it was mandatory on the body. LOL!!
Hi Mike,

I love it...muffler! Since I was managing Truck's off road racing and we were in Out West Desert and short course CORR, primarily Crandon. We were doing well with the F Series but not so much the CORR Pro Lite Rangers as it as dominated by Toyota and their potent 4 cylinder. Pro Lite needed to be quite nimble and the Lima Esslinger was nose heavy. I wanted a lighter motor up front in the nose of the Ford Rangers. I tried to get SVO to do the Mazda 2.3L program, but Dan had gotten SVOs ear and they said no dice...darn... I knew the teams might get around to it but iffy and I wanted to be winning in Pro LIte as well as Pro 2 and Pro 4, so I decided to fund the development for the teams, thus Thompson Automotive in a quasi Hush, Hush development. When we got good dyno numbers and Brian Thompson wanted some time in the Sun via the Hot Rod article, I okayed letting the cat out of the bag...I caused a bunch of lost sleep for the Taco guy....Heh, Heh! Then things fell apart with Mazda and the rest is history....

best,
Phil
 

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Its funny the way Dan has steered various engine programs, as a side project at Honda I was trying to get the 2.4 Honda Civic engine (the mono ex port version) up to power as a budget Midget engine, the bore spacing was just to close, couldn't bore it, stroking it put it outside the displacement rules, stuck at 305ish HP, but USAC was tired of 50-70K Toyotas driving away the little guy, only top tier teams could afford that.
Once we put a 102mm stroke crank in it, bam we hit 350ish hp with stock block and head, Dan was the "almost" budget engine at the time, we approached USAC to allow the 2.35 liter rule to be increased for us, Badger was good with it (a smaller series) but USAC stated that the other engine mfg had concerns about it, so we figured it was not Toyota, they had most of the field anyways and won the most.
In the long run we gave up on it as there was no money in it for Honda, anybody can pull a K24 from junkyard and build it, now the guys at 4piston have a potent Honda Midget engine as well as others.
I know Dan (who no longer owns Essinger) was always good at his engines, but seemingly equally good at getting them in a solid place in the rules.
For years that Mazda engine did do really well in the Formula Atlantic open wheel cars.

Cheers,
Mike
 

P. A. Schilke

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I live in Lima and drive by the engine plant on my way to work.
RIP Lima 2.5L...its final displacement....Heavy boat anchor by today's standards...

Best,
Phil
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