Single Piece Driveshaft

[Ogden Dan]

Once I had bought a set of brand new tires(cheapos) and had the same problem. The tires were balanced by 2 different shops. turned out it was 1 tire had a belt that was little off and caused the vibration. There was no visible bulge on the tire. long story short, you get what you pay for. Since then I've used nothing but Cooper tires until the Michelins on the Ranger.

I have read about others having the same issue as you. I still have the stock tires on my truck, but that doesn't mean there could be something wrong. They've been balanced a few times already but I'm going to have them road force balance this morning. Up until now I believe they were just balanced on a traditional balancer.

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[Ogden Dan]

Phil,
I'm using an app called myFrequency. It's on the Google Play store $9.95

Dan

Today I remeasured vibration frequencies again without the phone case. I seem to get better coupling to the truck without the case. in the attached graph you can see I'm getting spikes at frequencies of 16, 32 and 59 Hz. Measurements were taken at 85 mph. The 16 Hertz is the tire rotation speed. The 32 Hz signal is twice rotation speed which I assume is tire/wheel balance related (any suggestions)? There's also a spike approximately 59 Hz which corresponds to drive shaft rotation speed (16*3.73).

Dan

 

[Cape Cruiser]

Dan,Phil will hook you up. Thats right in his wheelhouse. Bret

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Today I remeasured vibration frequencies again without the phone case. I seem to get better coupling to the truck without the case. in the attached graph you can see I'm getting spikes at frequencies of 16, 32 and 59 Hz. Measurements were taken at 85 mph. The 16 Hertz is the tire rotation speed. The 32 Hz signal is twice rotation speed which I assume is tire/wheel balance related (any suggestions)? There's also a spike approximately 59 Hz which corresponds to drive shaft rotation speed (16*3.73).

Dan

Hi Dan,

Not knowing the scale in the frequency domain as you show, I think the 16 hz first order is wheel balance...The second order is likely Ovality of the tires and the two are related such that force balance should reduce both. The driveline frequency could be driveshaft balance or driveline system. Try loosening the center bearing and retightening, but this can be induced by the tire imbalance. Once force balance, rerun placing the phone in the same exact position. Amazing that what I had to use with $10,000 of equipment and pricey cables and accelerometers can now be done with a smart phone! If it had the ability to use an instrumented impact hammer and accelerometer on the place where the phone was placed it would show the natural frequency of the systems as additional data. love it when the math shows the exact axle ratio, eh? Likely the background is what we called road hash...

What I cannot tell is the excitation source. Is it tire/wheel or driveline or both, however a rerun after force balance will likely be more telling on the systems sensitivity.

BTW...where is the phone placed to detect the vibration? We used the seat track, the steering column and the dash panel. Also throught a B&K microphone, sound analysis at what we called Driver's Right Ear.

Way cool!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[Ogden Dan]

Hi Dan,

Not knowing the scale in the frequency domain as you show, I think the 16 hz first order is wheel balance...The second order is likely Ovality of the tires and the two are related such that force balance should reduce both. The driveline frequency could be driveshaft balance or driveline system. Try loosening the center bearing and retightening, but this can be induced by the tire imbalance. Once force balance, rerun placing the phone in the same exact position. Amazing that what I had to use with $10,000 of equipment and pricey cables and accelerometers can now be done with a smart phone! If it had the ability to use an instrumented impact hammer and accelerometer on the place where the phone was placed it would show the natural frequency of the systems as additional data. love it when the math shows the exact axle ratio, eh? Likely the background is what we called road hash...

What I cannot tell is the excitation source. Is it tire/wheel or driveline or both, however a rerun after force balance will likely be more telling on the systems sensitivity.

BTW...where is the phone placed to detect the vibration? We used the seat track, the steering column and the dash panel. Also throught a B&K microphone, sound analysis at what we called Driver's Right Ear.

Way cool!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Had road force balancing done today. STILL getting bad vibration at 85. I reran the test with my phone. The 16 and 32 Hz signals do appear to be lower but the driveshaft frequency still seems to be very prominent. I put the curser at the peak of the 56.89 Hz signal where you can see the magnitude in the upper right hand corner of the screen. As far as phone placement is concerned, I was putting it flat on the center console right behind the shift lever. I have a Galaxy Note 10 plus so it sits fairly wide and flat against that surface.
Not happy I can still scramble eggs at 85 mph. ?

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Had road force balancing done today. STILL getting bad vibration at 85. I reran the test with my phone. The 16 and 32 Hz signals do appear to be lower but the driveshaft frequency still seems to be very prominent. I put the curser at the peak of the 56.89 Hz signal where you can see the magnitude in the upper right hand corner of the screen. As far as phone placement is concerned, I was putting it flat on the center console right behind the shift lever. I have a Galaxy Note 10 plus so it sits fairly wide and flat against that surface.
Not happy I can still scramble eggs at 85 mph. ?

Hi Dan,

If you want to try to fix this yourself...try this:

There is a service trick that can be done too. Put two hose clamps around the rear driveshaft with both heads of the clamps side by side. Drive the vehicle. If worse, clock the pair around the shaft until you feel the imbalance is the lease. Then mark that spot and clock the heads of the clamps in opposite directions equal distance from the mark. Again evaluate. keep clocking in this same manor until the vibration is gone. If this equal clocking makes it worse, you need more weight and add another pair of hose clamps and repeat the equal distance from the mark clocking and see if that helps. I have used this trick before with pretty good results on shafts that clearly show a balance weight was thrown.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[JimJa]

For those of you with a vibration you are unable to diagnose, here's another data point.

I had the same issue with my '05 and was unable to fix it. Finally as a last resort I took the truck to a drive line shop. The driveshaft was not only out of balance, it also slightly bent. They said it wasn't that far out but their tolerance was significantly less than OEM.

An out of balance driveshaft, no matter how slight, will have a negative long-term effect on, not only drivability, but bearings and seals on either end of the shaft. My '00 Explorer's drive shaft was so bad from the factory it had to be replaced.

I tend to keep my vehicles for a long time and high miles. I've considered having my '19 Ranger's driveshaft balanced just as a preventive. Your driveshaft may be the source of your vibration.

 

[Ogden Dan]

For those of you with a vibration you are unable to diagnose, here's another data point.

I had the same issue with my '05 and was unable to fix it. Finally as a last resort I took the truck to a drive line shop. The driveshaft was not only out of balance, it also slightly bent. They said it wasn't that far out but their tolerance was significantly less than OEM.

An out of balance driveshaft, no matter how slight, will have a negative long-term effect on, not only drivability, but bearings and seals on either end of the shaft. My '00 Explorer's drive shaft was so bad from the factory it had to be replaced.

I tend to keep my vehicles for a long time and high miles. I've considered having my '19 Ranger's driveshaft balanced just as a preventive. Your driveshaft may be the source of your vibration.

I agree. The vibration testing I did showed vibration which followed the driveshaft rotation.
The truck is back at the dealer as of yesterday and they indicated they were going to focus on the driveshaft. I shared my vibration testing results with them and it seemed to reinforce their efforts with driveshaft balance.
The service advisor indicated they currently have another Ranger in the shop with the same problem.
Hopefully strength in numbers will prevail.

We'll see what happens this time and I hope they get it figured out. I think this is a really awesome little truck, but my enthusiasm is definitely is starting to wane.

Dan

 

[JimJa]

Dan,
I note you are from Utah. If you are near SLC the place I took my '05 to was GRS Driveline (801-972-1753, 930 W 2100 S. Very professional and they do nothing but driveshafts including 18-wheelers.

 

[Ogden Dan]

Dan,
I note you are from Utah. If you are near SLC the place I took my '05 to was GRS Driveline (801-972-1753, 930 W 2100 S. Very professional and they do nothing but driveshafts including 18-wheelers.

Thanks for the information. I'll definitely keep that in mind if the dealer strikes out with my truck. I'm up here in Ogden but I do tend to get down to Salt lake City often.

Dan

 

[DukeCanBuildit]

Hi Dan,

Not knowing the scale in the frequency domain as you show, I think the 16 hz first order is wheel balance...The second order is likely Ovality of the tires and the two are related such that force balance should reduce both. The driveline frequency could be driveshaft balance or driveline system. Try loosening the center bearing and retightening, but this can be induced by the tire imbalance. Once force balance, rerun placing the phone in the same exact position. Amazing that what I had to use with $10,000 of equipment and pricey cables and accelerometers can now be done with a smart phone! If it had the ability to use an instrumented impact hammer and accelerometer on the place where the phone was placed it would show the natural frequency of the systems as additional data. love it when the math shows the exact axle ratio, eh? Likely the background is what we called road hash...

What I cannot tell is the excitation source. Is it tire/wheel or driveline or both, however a rerun after force balance will likely be more telling on the systems sensitivity.

BTW...where is the phone placed to detect the vibration? We used the seat track, the steering column and the dash panel. Also throught a B&K microphone, sound analysis at what we called Driver's Right Ear.

Way cool!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Phil, I love how you are totally geeking out on this smart phone diagnostic technique. It really highlights your passion for "getting it right" and your contribution to the Rangers that came before these. It also explains why I loved my '91, '96, and '01 so much. Thanks!

 

[DukeCanBuildit]

since phil is geeking out....i have a blender that seems to be shaking itself off the countertop when i'm crushing ice for my drinks....Phil? are you up for a real challenge??

the constant car crap must get annoying after awhile

Phil will hook you up - here is a pic of Phil's blender...

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Phil will hook you up - here is a pic of Phil's blender...

Hi Duke,

Actually, since I managed Ford's Off Raod Racing for some 25 years...there was a fellow in the paddock at every race in the Nevada area that had a blender similar to this one...I was quite amused at the crowd around his blender. I could never partake of his concoctions as I was always in Ford garb and was "all business" at these races.

Oh Well...I was into kicking ass of Toyota, Chevy, Dodge, Nissan etc...and we did to the tune of three times the win rate for Ford Trucks over all the other manufacturers combined. We put the teeth into the Marketing "Built Ford Tough"....

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[navsnipe]

A friend of mine was mentioning his F150 Roush exhaust was leaking a had to get under it and tighten things up. I mentioned my driveline shudder on my Ranger , he never had any on his F150. I looked underneath his truck and there was a monster diameter single piece driveshaft on that truck. I'm guessing 4 or 5 inch. I guess Roush knows a thing or two about Ford drivelines.

Does anyone know what driveshaft design the Roush Ranger has?

 

[Ogden Dan]

A friend of mine was mentioning his F150 Roush exhaust was leaking a had to get under it and tighten things up. I mentioned my driveline shudder on my Ranger , he never had any on his F150. I looked underneath his truck and there was a monster diameter single piece driveshaft on that truck. I'm guessing 4 or 5 inch. I guess Roush knows a thing or two about Ford drivelines.

Does anyone know what driveshaft design the Roush Ranger has?

I didn't think Roush changed the driveline, but yours is a good question if they did. I'd probably run right out and get one (or at least replicate it).

Dan

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