Ping when cold

[seasprite]

Mine makes ping like sounds when ambient is 51-58 degrees regardless of engine temp, heat soak, etc. I got all sort of advice it was the tune (did it stock so not a LMS issue... and the dealership said it was normal hpfp noise) and was told it was because I ran 93 and I was dumb... here on this board for running 93 octane. I just learned to live with this thing sounding like crap. Well... that and I'm about to throw exhaust on it to drown out the stupid.

That said. I wish you the best of luck getting anyone to give you a solid solution. Dealer or forum. The forum fixed the second of my annoying bird like noises with the dealer fixing the first.. so .. there is hope. (No smartass)

Just getting started going down this rabbit hole, finding same complaints on the Bronco forums and explorer so hopefully with some research and diag help from here we'll find a common issue

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[seasprite]

Probably what has been described in these threads:

https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/engine-rattle.21658/

https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/intermittent-engine-rattle-under-moderate-acceleration.8732/

Looks like I'm not the only one with this. I'm going to continue to look into this because something had to change for this to start happening.

 

[RangerBill]

Looks like I'm not the only one with this. I'm going to continue to look into this because something had to change for this to start happening.

It might be worth trying using Motorcraft 5W-30 synthetic blend motor oil, recommended by Ford. I've read where engine oil can contribute to pre-detonation problems.

 

[seasprite]

Had a chance to look at some data today and I'm not finding anything thats standing out as an issue. Here's some screen capt. of the data I collected. I also went ahead and looked at mode 6 data and didn't see anything.
Cold soaked

warm

and mode 6

I also grabbed the waste gate rod and wiggled it and the only play I could feel was linkage play and it wasn't vary much.

Oh and the fuel pressures seemed to track with desired but didn't seem to line up with the posted values for 30mph and 55 mph but I had a hard time figuring where I was at 55 ? Should of put up the rpm or a speed pid

 

[Wytchdctr]

Watching this to see I'd it helps with my weird temp based noise issue. My guess is maybe a no since yours is engine temp and mine is ambient temps.

 

[airline tech]

The things that stand out on the COLD:

The Low Side Fuel Pressure and Desired - Spec is 69.47 (Idle) - Not bad but small discrepancy.

The Fuel Rail Pressure - Is the standout, now I will have to dig some to see why the desired and actual are so far off, possibility being cold and engine is not warmed up yet.
But I noted how close the actual pressure is to the Low-Pressure Pump (Pressure)
This brings attention to the HP Fuel Pump and Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor.
See below for a Description of Pressure Sensor: and note what it does in the event of failure.
Closely matches your posted readings.

Fuel Rail Pressure (FRP) Sensor
The FRP sensor is a diaphragm strain gauge device. The FRP sensor measures the pressure difference between the fuel rail and atmospheric pressure. The FRP sensor nominal output varies between 0.5 and 4.5 volts, with 0.5 volts corresponding to 0 MPa (0 psi) gauge and 4.5 volts corresponding to 26 MPa (3771 psi) gauge. The sensor can read vacuum and may lower the output voltage to slightly below 0.5 volts. This condition is normal and is usually the case after several hours of cold soak before the vehicle dome light is turned ON. The FP assembly is energized at the same time the dome light is commanded ON. A disabled or malfunctioning dome light does not affect the FP assembly control.

The FRP sensor is located on the fuel rail and provides a feedback signal to indicate the fuel rail pressure to the PCM. The PCM uses the FRP signal to command the correct injector timing and pulse width for correct fuel delivery at all speed and load conditions. The FRP sensor, along with the fuel volume regulator (part of the fuel injection pump), form a closed loop fuel pressure control system. An electrically faulted FRP sensor results in the deactivation of the fuel injection pump. Fuel pressure to injectors is then provided only by the FP assembly. When the fuel injection pump is de-energized and the injectors are active, the fuel rail pressure is approximately 70 kPa (10 psi) lower than FP assembly pressure due to the pressure drop across the fuel injection pump. Thus, if the FP assembly pressure is 448 kPa (65 psi), then the fuel rail pressure would be approximately 379 kPa (55 psi) if the injectors are active.

So to test this, get a long-handled screwdriver or Mechanics Stethoscope, and listen to pump when cold vs when hot, and see if pump is actually being deactivated. I'm sure you should be able to hear some kind of sound difference.

The other item is the Knock Counter - Cylinder 1 and 4, although these are low counts and might be normal - I would have to hook up and see if mine show the same.
These tie into the Octane Learned PID and Spark Advance PID
Spark Advance @ Idle should be around 1.5 Deg.

So with you saying you have noted a loud HP Fuel Pump noise, Is it abnormally noisy?
So with the information you have provided, I would look into that HP Pump Noise and or Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor.
Once Warm - all is normal, except the Knock Counters picking up a Knock, but a low number count may not be a concern, but the PCM is addressing this count by Spark Advance. Retard or Advance Timing

Edit:

Look at the PID: Octane Learned - Should be (0), if high negative numbers, then it is type of fuel being used. and also look at Spark Advance PID: and check against spec of 1.5 Deg @ idle.

If those are good, then dig deeper into the HP Fuel Pump and Fuel Rail Pressure, as you stated the engine stumbles for a brief moment after starting, this could be the HP Pump being deactivated by the Fuel Rail Pressure sensor.

 

[seasprite]

Just for clarification the cold soak is KOEO to see how far down the pressure bleeds off over night. I'm kinda surprised that prime pressure on the low side didn't equal desired. But figure as soon as the start signal comes on it will bump up.On the hp side looks like its suppose to bleed down with desired at 8.7psi while pressure is still at 65psi.

As far as the fuel pump noise, it makes me think its purging air and when it stabilized and noise goes away is when I get shudder then everything is normal quiet after that.

 

[airline tech]

Ok, that makes sense.
At KOEO:
The Fuel Pump (75%) is the duty cycle command - It is a valid (%) to command the HP Pump off, it is commanded off due to (no) crankshaft sensor input.
So the desired 8.7 PSI is due to the fact of no engine rotation, and the Fuel Rail Pressure reading is only showing the LP Pump Pressure (+) a small bump from the HP Pump.
As soon as engine cranks, the desired (Fuel Rail Pressure) should change to normal readings.

as all the Warm - Readings are normal, I am curious about the Knock Counters showing counts with KOEO and Warm

So with that cleared up, everything looks normal fuel pressure wise (KOEO and Warm)
I plan on hooking up my Autel shortly just to see if anything stands out different.
Mainly on the Knock Counters and see if I can find the Octane PID

 

[seasprite]

Ok, that makes sense.
At KOEO:
The Fuel Pump (75%) is the duty cycle command - It is a valid (%) to command the HP Pump off, it is commanded off due to (no) crankshaft sensor input.
So the desired 8.7 PSI is due to the fact of no engine rotation, and the Fuel Rail Pressure reading is only showing the LP Pump Pressure (+) a small bump from the HP Pump.
As soon as engine cranks, the desired (Fuel Rail Pressure) should change to normal readings.

as all the Warm - Readings are normal, I am curious about the Knock Counters showing counts with KOEO and Warm

So with that cleared up, everything looks normal fuel pressure wise (KOEO and Warm)
I plan on hooking up my Autel shortly just to see if anything stands out different.
Mainly on the Knock Counters and see if I can find the Octane PID

I'm wondering if the counters stay there for so many key cycles then resets? Thing is I have no idea how long they have been there.

I'm not busy right now I'll step out and see if I can find the octane pid

 

[airline tech]

Correction:
At KOEO
Fuel Rail Press: Spec = 343.74
Fuel Rail Desired = 10.15
This is what the Specs show is should be, I will hook up and see what mine shows - To Compare

 

[Rp930]

Looks like I'm not the only one with this. I'm going to continue to look into this because something had to change for this to start happening.

Could be just an ambient temperature change. Minor ping could be a small glitch in programming or intentional to meet emissions. (more timing to clean emissions). Purge valve activation could come into play. With small knock counts on two cylinders I would not be losing much sleep.

 

[seasprite]

Correction:
At KOEO
Fuel Rail Press: Spec = 343.74
Fuel Rail Desired = 10.15
This is what the Specs show is should be, I will hook up and see what mine shows - To Compare

I know yesterday when I shut the Engine off the hp fuel pressure started to climb from 219 psi over 300 psi which I expected with the fuel heating up after shut down

 

[seasprite]

Oh yay I couldn't find anything that looked like an octane pid and forscan wants to update to v2.3.53

 

[seasprite]

Could be just an ambient temperature change. Minor ping could be a small glitch in programming or intentional to meet emissions. (more timing to clean emissions). Purge valve activation could come into play. With small knock counts on two cylinders I would not be losing much sleep.

Not loosing any sleep, and I'm leaning towards the ambient temp thing as we go through this. Seems to be doing it less as spring time temps come up. A side benefit is we are learning more on how these engines behave and what is normal and what is not. And if I have to take it to the dealer its nice to have data to back up your issue.

 

[Rp930]

Not loosing any sleep, and I'm leaning towards the ambient temp thing as we go through this. Seems to be doing it less as spring time temps come up. A side benefit is we are learning more on how these engines behave and what is normal and what is not. And if I have to take it to the dealer its nice to have data to back up your issue.

No problem. Just trying to help.

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