One Piece Driveshaft

[Dr3wDrop]

Instead of injecting poly urethane into the bearing support, we can maybe 3D print inserts that can be pushed into the voids to limit movement. If it doesn't work, the inserts could be removed, whereas poly urethane would be a more permanent mod.

Exactly this. If it doesn't work, remove it. If it works, its a relatively easy DIY fix for anyone.

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[Dr3wDrop]

To be clear, my main goal to the DIY brainstorming route is @Shawn at Tom Wood's has no plan on making a drive shaft for my Tremor. So I have limited options.

 

[NotBudule]

be careful if you decide to pour or inject something, mine seemed to be off center (not because the hanging weight ) the cord fell in by itself on drivers side near bottom ,but had to use a flat tip punch and drive it in around the rest of it , if it hardens off center ,that would be bad ..

 

[navsnipe]

be careful if you decide to pour or inject something, mine seemed to be off center (not because the hanging weight ) the cord fell in by itself on drivers side near bottom ,but had to use a flat tip punch and drive it in around the rest of it , if it hardens off center ,that would be bad ..

There have been a few people who have put shims/spacers under the center bearing bracket mount to fix the shudder. I did that for a while but it seemed to still have some vibes at other speeds. It would seem that it would preload the rubber support material and reduce deflection. I learned about it from @Porpoise Hork a couple years ago. I believe he is still running his Ranger this way.

Filling the gap seems to be a better solution for the stock shaft.

 

[AzScorpion]

There have been a few people who have put shims/spacers under the center bearing bracket mount to fix the shudder. I did that for a while but it seemed to still have some vibes at other speeds. It would seem that it would preload the rubber support material and reduce deflection. I learned about it from @Porpoise Hork a couple years ago. I believe he is still running his Ranger this way.

Filling the gap seems to be a better solution for the stock shaft.

Bret traded his Ranger back in August for an F150.

https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/this-is-where-the-cowboy-rides-away.21333/

 

[navsnipe]

Bret traded his Ranger back in August for an F150.

https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/this-is-where-the-cowboy-rides-away.21333/

Thank you for the update. I forgot he had the persistent leak as well as the shudder. I came close to doing the same thing he did.

 

[Shawn at Tom Wood's]

Well that is good to know. That fact raises my confidence in your work and company.

I'm not one to say something like "Don't you know who I am?! I'm an expert and I know everything, listen to what I say!" but also, yeah, I'm sort of an expert. Our company name may be new to the Ford Ranger world but if you look around in the Jeep and 4X4 world I think you'll find that we are generally recognized as one of, if not the, premier sources.

To be clear, my main goal to the DIY brainstorming route is @Shawn at Tom Wood's has no plan on making a drive shaft for my Tremor. So I have limited options.

Plans may change. I talked to a guy a couple days ago about this, who said he really wants to get a shaft to fix his ####ing truck. It seems like the Tremors are also susceptible to severe drive shaft shudders. But I told him, and I'll tell you, that there is still a lot of skepticism amongst the standard Ranger owners as to whether or not we know what we're doing and are able to build something that will work so it's gotta be one new product project at a time. The Tremor will take even more R & D and will require us to develop more complicated (expensive) parts (some sort of adapter for the pinion flange). So until this whole standard Ranger thing is tried and true to a point where everyone can accept the 1-peice as the best solution I'm not going to put any more time or money into developing a Tremor shaft. We'll just have to see how the Ranger thing plays out. Then, in the future, we may come out with something for the Tremor. Frankly though, as much as a pain in the butt this Ranger thing has been, I'm hesitant to wade much further into the Ford shaky shaft waters.

be careful if you decide to pour or inject something, mine seemed to be off center (not because the hanging weight ) the cord fell in by itself on drivers side near bottom ,but had to use a flat tip punch and drive it in around the rest of it , if it hardens off center ,that would be bad ..

This shouldn't actually matter. The bearing mount is not rotating so if it is off-center by a little bit one way or the other all that means is that the position of the bearing is in a slightly different spot that it would otherwise be. Think of raising or dropping the carrier bearing mounting bracket a quarter inch, that would have the same effect on the drive shaft operation (little to none) as casting the support bushing a little wonky.


I don't know why I'm so emotionally invested in exploring all the possible avenues in fixing this problem as I am, but I am. I really want to see what happens with a cast urethane bushing. Because everyone seems too scared to pour urethane directly into their bushing, even though I offered to replace the stock shaft for free if it doesn't work, I'm going to get some 2-part urethane mix and experiment with making a mold then casting some removeable urethane inserts. Hey, maybe I can start a side business selling bushing dampeners! haha. I'll let you guys know how it goes and see if anyone wants some free samples.

 

[navsnipe]

I'm not one to say something like "Don't you know who I am?! I'm an expert and I know everything, listen to what I say!" but also, yeah, I'm sort of an expert. Our company name may be new to the Ford Ranger world but if you look around in the Jeep and 4X4 world I think you'll find that we are generally recognized as one of, if not the, premier sources.



Plans may change. I talked to a guy a couple days ago about this, who said he really wants to get a shaft to fix his ####ing truck. It seems like the Tremors are also susceptible to severe drive shaft shudders. But I told him, and I'll tell you, that there is still a lot of skepticism amongst the standard Ranger owners as to whether or not we know what we're doing and are able to build something that will work so it's gotta be one new product project at a time. The Tremor will take even more R & D and will require us to develop more complicated (expensive) parts (some sort of adapter for the pinion flange). So until this whole standard Ranger thing is tried and true to a point where everyone can accept the 1-peice as the best solution I'm not going to put any more time or money into developing a Tremor shaft. We'll just have to see how the Ranger thing plays out. Then, in the future, we may come out with something for the Tremor. Frankly though, as much as a pain in the butt this Ranger thing has been, I'm hesitant to wade much further into the Ford shaky shaft waters.



This shouldn't actually matter. The bearing mount is not rotating so if it is off-center by a little bit one way or the other all that means is that the position of the bearing is in a slightly different spot that it would otherwise be. Think of raising or dropping the carrier bearing mounting bracket a quarter inch, that would have the same effect on the drive shaft operation (little to none) as casting the support bushing a little wonky.


I don't know why I'm so emotionally invested in exploring all the possible avenues in fixing this problem as I am, but I am. I really want to see what happens with a cast urethane bushing. Because everyone seems too scared to pour urethane directly into their bushing, even though I offered to replace the stock shaft for free if it doesn't work, I'm going to get some 2-part urethane mix and experiment with making a mold then casting some removeable urethane inserts. Hey, maybe I can start a side business selling bushing dampeners! haha. I'll let you guys know how it goes and see if anyone wants some free samples.

ECS Tuning added making urethane inserts for various German cars to deal with soft rubber bushings and mounts about 15+ years ago. I used a few as my last four vehicles before my Ranger were Audi's and VW's. If you build something that fixes a problem, they will buy it.

 

[NotBudule]

Because everyone seems too scared to pour urethane directly into their bushing

No fear here , just didn't want to take it off and do something irreversible until I'm satisfied it will make a difference... my OCD would still require I center it before I pour anything in there ...

 

[AzScorpion]

Hey, maybe I can start a side business selling bushing dampeners! haha.

I knew I liked this company for a reason! ?

 

[JohnnyO]

For two years I have dealt with the shudder and vibration issue and is well documented on this forum. I have dealt with two dealerships, a Ford Technical Service Manager (corporate level), and a Field Service Engineer in an attempt to fix my truck. The end result was "this is the best it's going to get, your shudder is pretty mild compared to some of the other Rangers we have seen" I reached out to a close family member who has worked for Ford for the past 27+ years and he was the one who facilitated the FSE interaction. It does not seem that Ford wants to provide a solution to the problem, probably number one reason is cost, secondly, they have bigger problems to fix on other products, and thirdly, the Ranger seems to be the least marketed vehicle in the lineup

I did my research and spoke with many people for possible solutions. I understand the risks of a one-piece driveshaft. Tom Woods stands by their product and if the driveshaft did not do what I expected they would take it back and refund my money.

Shawn Woods reached out to you for your technical advice only for you to accuse him of baiting you. I have spoken with Shawn on a few occasions now and find him to be sincere, intelligent, and very open to learning about his craft wherever possible.

I would be very hesitant on buying another Ford product based upon my experience with my 2020 Ranger. I owned a new 1994 Ranger for about six years and it was a very good experience. I had a driveline shudder on that truck too. The difference is the service manager gave me his truck for the day, took mine to get fixed, and returned it with no shudder. No drama, no excuses.

That's why I asked earlier in this thread about my first two Rangers (99 and 02) having driveshaft related problems but both of them had OE one-piece driveshafts and I doubt they were much if at all longer than the one on my 2020.

 

[TJC]

The shim would be the solution for me. The single-piece critical speed is to low for me to be comfortable with when I've had the cruise control at 85 on I70.

The critical speed has been estimated at 6K rpm(which was 75% of one engineer's test calculations), but Shawn lowered it to 4K to be safe and conservative. More on why at the bottom of this note. It has never been tested and confirmed.

I wonder if any driveshaft designs are tested on a physical test bed where they are brought up to near critical speed (where resonant frequency and harmonic balance come into play).

They may all simply run computer simulations. One can obtain any result one wants from simulations (CO2 emissions linked to global warming comes to mind).

Until one sees the actual data and methodology used to test the Driveshaft designs, we can only accept the manufacturers word. Do I trust Ford or Spicer/Dana over Tom Wood's Driveshafts? Most people would (normalcy bias at play).

If Ford farms out the work, does Ford run independent tests on these designs? Or do they simply trust their supplier? Does the supplier run actual physical tests or computer simulations?

Engineers push the limits... that is what engineers do. How else do you determine safe operating parameters?

I guess it all boils down to trust.

Tom Wood's Driveshafts has been in business for almost 25 years doing one thing, making driveshafts. Tom Wood has over 45 years doing this work, and I suspect Shawn has been at it since being able to work. They have hard earned practical knowledge about what works and what doesn't.

Additionally, They are a small operation and can't afford to not do things right. If they get it wrong, word will spread fast, and they are quickly out of business.

If Tom Wood's Driveshaft is hit with a lawsuit, it would be financially devastating to the company. Does Ford or Spicer/Dana have the same exposure/risk? I don't think a lawsuit would result in insolvency to either Ford or Spicer/Dana.

I guess what I am getting at is that Tom Wood's Driveshaft has a bigger incentive to get it right than does Ford or Spicer/Dana. I know that they do not have the resources that Ford or Spicer/Dana has, but they focus on one small part. And companies that focus on one thing tend to do that one thing very well.... and usually better than those that have many more product lines to manage.

I know that the U-joints, Yoke, and Slip Joint are overbuilt, well beyond the Ford Spec'd Driveshaft. That leaves only the 4" DOM steel shaft in question.

Personally, I am satisfied that the Tom Wood's Driveshaft outperforms the Ford part. I had a very bad shudder (truck shaking) at >=75mph. I now have none. I had a shudder at <20 mph (speeding up and slowing down). I now have none.

Just one last thing. I have no axe to grind against anyone. I am simply a satisfied Tom Wood's Driveshaft customer. I am not speaking for Tom Wood's Driveshaft, only for myself. My words and thoughts are my own.

So step right up and pick your poison gents!

-T

 

[JohnnyO]

No but did have plenty of drive shaft center bearings crap out lmao.

It's getting to be a common problem in the Sport Trac world I came from. The Gen 2's have a two-piece rear driveshaft and the carrier bearings are crapping out once they get north of 10 years and 150,000 miles. 2wd you can replace just the bearing but the 4wd unit is different and you have to replace the whole thing, I did.

 

[Shawn at Tom Wood's]

Two gallons of 2-part urethane ordered. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

ECS Tuning added making urethane inserts for various German cars to deal with soft rubber bushings and mounts about 15+ years ago. I used a few as my last four vehicles before my Ranger were Audi's and VW's. If you build something that fixes a problem, they will buy it.

I know it! We have quite a few products that no-one else has. I'm not even talking about drive shafts, but drive shaft components and transfer case slip yoke eliminators. Ironically, a couple of these things started as an idea that we brought to other companies who we thought could do a good job making and selling them, as a free idea. Usually that is met with "I don't know. . . we don't get a lot of people asking for anything like that, I don't know how well it would do." I always think "No duh nobody is asking you for it, it doesn't exist yet!", then we end up putting up the time and money to develop the product for ourselves instead. Then we end up monopolizing the market by default because everyone else lacked either the courage or the ambition to do something new. It's crazy.
I actually have no interest in getting into the polymer casting business so if this seems like a product with a lot of potential I'll probably try and encourage someone who does urethane bushings to bring it to market. If they shoot it down, who knows?

And FWIW, I am staying with the one piece driveshaft. My truck has never driven so smooth. And it is one less point of failure over the long haul.

- T

Could it be that the best solution is right in front of us?!

 

[JohnnyO]

Well mine is doing it some , not bad (got worse after this thread though , inception ? ) but its there , so i crawl under there to check things out and grab the driveshaft at the center bearing and "holy crap! " thats a LOT of movement with almost no resistance to it , the rubber feels like squishy foam , the video of the floppy driveshaft makes sense now ... my addled brain immediately wanted to drive shims in there or fill it with something that would cure hard or see if anybody made a stiffer housing , anyway , read through a bunch of stuff and it seams pretty common to have too soft rubber causing shudder , lots of info on an Audi forum , and i know these wont fit the Ranger , but since these exist , makes me think that carrier is the problem ...

The stock center support bearing carrier is designed to reduce NVH to the cabin by loosely holding the center bearing with a flimsy rubber bushing. During launches and shifts, the driveshaft is allowed to travel off-center, decreasing throttle response and causing oscillations through the drivetrain. As they age, the carrier rubber sags and dry rots, ruining the driveshaft alignment. Fix or prevent this common issue with JXB Performance's Driveshaft Center Support Bearing Upgrade! JXB utilizes a simple but extremely effective 2-piece design which allows you to install this upgrade and replace bushings with ease. The stock center support carrier is simply cut away, allowing the JXB bushings to "clamp" down on the driveshaft bearing and hold the driveshaft securely in place, maintaining driveshaft alignment at all times.

I'm not an engineer either, I'm a funeral director but I know a thing or two about cars, my take is that if you make the rubber in the bushing too hard it will transmit too much vibration throughout the vehicle and if you make it too soft then the driveshaft will move around too much and transmit too much vibration throughout the vehicle. So there's probably a balance to attain.

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