New Ranger Lugging between 1200 and 1500 RPMs - Is this normal?

[Floyd]

Well I have been an engineer for the past 45 years and every decision an engineer makes is a compromise. So to pursume that the transmission tuning is "the best overall performance" is naive. I have no idea why it wants to run the engine down below 1500 rpm where it's not the smooth like most 4cyl engines. Did they simply just port over the coding from the F150 where the 6cyl and 8cyl engines run smooth in that rpm range to save cost. Or, did they consciously do that in an effort to squeak out a fraction of a mpg to improve the corporate fuel economy average.

Additional weight or larger tire diameters will exacerbate the problem but it is not the route of the problem. The two Ecoboost Mustangs I had were not smooth below 1500 rpm and they weighed approximately 1000 lbs less and the tires were about 4" smaller than the tires on my Tremor. If Ford was truly interested in best performance they would have had different tuning for the tranny based on weight and tire diameter thresholds but that would be a significant cost hit and we are right back to compromises.

Am I then to conclude that I should be dissatisfied with with the 2.3L/10R80 combo, based on your subjective judgement,.... or should I base my satisfaction on three years of flawless reliability, excellent fuel economy, and unparalleled towing performance in its class?
I chose the Ranger in large part because of the aforementioned combo and expected it to be excellent.
It has subsequently exceeded every expectation.

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[BassRanger]

Just cruising? No.


But encounter a significant hill or a slight increase in speed where a light roll into the throttle is prudent and now you've introduced a higher load and increased throttle. The conditions thar LSPI thrives upon.

IF the logic were to be sensitive enough to downshift for a slight throttle tip in, that would be fine. But it doesn't, you have to give her the beans a bit to force a downshift.

There are 10 gears in this thing. If it must cruise in 7th, 1300 rpm at 35mph, it should at least kick down a couple to 5th at 1700rpm when you need to accelerate slightly.

Not only does this create POSSIBLY dangerous conditions. It hinders driveability.

The truck downshifts before it opens the throttle. This can easily be observed in a data log. The same is true for pretty much all Ford torque based ECUs. If the torque required dictates the truck needs to downshift it will. There is no circumstance in which this truck will open the throttle in too low of a gear. That's just not how these ECU logics work.

The EcoBoost LSPI issues were almost exclusively on their manual transmission vehicles. Not only that pretty much all the new EcoBoost calibration files I've seen have LSPI tables.

I have not seen a single report of LSPI on these trucks, not one. I don't know why people are set on making this an issue.

 

[Floyd]

Nobody is saying that it doesn't operate as designed. We are saying that it wasn't designed correctly in our opinion. Big difference.

The fact that you like it does not take away from the fact that transmission shift points are THE NUMBER ONE driveability complaint about the Ranger.

Kinda like when you're trying to repair something some idiot engineer hid underneath something else. It's working as designed, it just wasn't well designed.




Is that your official position as an engineer?

LSPI is not a thing and small displacement DI turbo charged motors are not inherently susceptible to it?

Finally !! you have made the salient point!!!
IN YOUR OPINION.
And yes, there have been many times over the years when I would have loved to be locked in the room with the engineer who designed something I had to fix.... this just ain't one of them.

I would love to compare credentials and experience with you some time, but I have nothing I need to prove here.

I have worked with engineers who understood their craft and some who couldn't pour piss out of a boot with instructions on the heel. That's pretty much true in all endeavors.

Your need to be right has now exceeded my patience so ....OK I guess I will just live with this Ranger for the next couple of decades as it is (warts and all)
Its been fun! Really!

(notice it was the "strawman" who wanted a brain?)

 

[Hot Pepper Red Zeppelin]

Gonna have nightmares now about those damn flying monkeys.

 

[Wytchdctr]

Maybe some people like the extra vibration under 1500 rpm?

 

[D Fresh]

The truck downshifts before it opens the throttle. This can easily be observed in a data log. The same is true for pretty much all Ford torque based ECUs. If the torque required dictates the truck needs to downshift it will. There is no circumstance in which this truck will open the throttle in too low of a gear. That's just not how these ECU logics work.

The EcoBoost LSPI issues were almost exclusively on their manual transmission vehicles. Not only that pretty much all the new EcoBoost calibration files I've seen have LSPI tables.

I have not seen a single report of LSPI on these trucks, not one. I don't know why people are set on making this an issue.

The truck most assuredly does NOT downshift before opening the throttle on slight throttle tip in. Mash the throttle? Sure. That's not the way I drive.

You can watch it going up hills all day long.

Yes there are knock sensors and OARs. But, despite the fact that there are safeguards in place I personally would prefer to do my part as well.

I must be weird cause I do the same when backing up. Despite having a camera back there I still use my mirrors and look over my shoulder first.

 

[D Fresh]

Finally !! you have made the salient point!!!
IN YOUR OPINION.
And yes, there have been many times over the years when I would have loved to be locked in the room with the engineer who designed something I had to fix.... this just ain't one of them.

I would love to compare credentials and experience with you some time, but I have nothing I need to prove here.

I have worked with engineers who understood their craft and some who couldn't pour piss out of a boot with instructions on the heel. That's pretty much true in all endeavors.

Your need to be right has now exceeded my patience so ....OK I guess I will just live with this Ranger for the next couple of decades as it is (warts and all)
Its been fun! Really!

I thought it was pretty well understood that we were talking about opinions.

If you don't understand that I'm questioning where you think you are posting?

 

[BassRanger]

The truck most assuredly does NOT downshift before opening the throttle on slight throttle tip in. Mash the throttle? Sure. That's not the way I drive.

You can watch it going up hills all day long.

If the truck does not downshift, that means the requested torque can be fulfilled in the gear the truck is in.

If you are just easing into the throttle, then it makes sense that the truck hold gear if it can provide the acceleration in that gear. If you want more acceleration, just push the skinny pedal harder. It's really that simple. If the truck is doing what you want it to, why worry about what gear it's in?

Do you really want a trans that's hopping gears every time you breathe on the throttle pedal? I personally do not, and I'd wager most drivers don't. Fortunately there are tune options for those that do.

 

[Dgc333]

Am I then to conclude that I should be dissatisfied with with the 2.3L/10R80 combo, based on your subjective judgement,.... or should I base my satisfaction on three years of flawless reliability, excellent fuel economy, and unparalleled towing performance in its class?
I chose the Ranger in large part because of the aforementioned combo and expected it to be excellent.
It has subsequently exceeded every expectation.

The only thing you are to conclude is that I am not satisfied with the transmission tuning along with a lot of other people. The fact that the engine running well under 1500 rpm when cruising in Drive does not bother you is just fine but because you are happy does not mean everyone else should be happy. I chose to have a custom transmission tune done that now has the transmission shifting the way I want it to. IMHO, the way it is now is how Ford should have done it and if they had there would not be these threads complaining about it.

I can't speak to towing because I don't tow. Also, can't speak to reliability since I have only owned the truck 7 months and 10k miles. My expectation is the truck will go for at least 10 years and 200,000 miles with no major issues like the majority of the vehicles I have owned over the past 50 years.

I chose the Ranger because of the 2.3 Ecoboost engine. I have had turbo charged 4cyl powered vehicles for the past 37 years and consider them to be the perfect combination of performance and economy. So far the Ranger has delivered on that.

 

[Floyd]

The only thing you are to conclude is that I am not satisfied with the transmission tuning along with a lot of other people. The fact that the engine running well under 1500 rpm when cruising in Drive does not bother you is just fine but because you are happy does not mean everyone else should be happy. I chose to have a custom transmission tune done that now has the transmission shifting the way I want it to. IMHO, the way it is now is how Ford should have done it and if they had there would not be these threads complaining about it.

I can't speak to towing because I don't tow. Also, can't speak to reliability since I have only owned the truck 7 months and 10k miles. My expectation is the truck will go for at least 10 years and 200,000 miles with no major issues like the majority of the vehicles I have owned over the past 50 years.

I chose the Ranger because of the 2.3 Ecoboost engine. I have had turbo charged 4cyl powered vehicles for the past 37 years and consider them to be the perfect combination of performance and economy. So far the Ranger has delivered on that.

Trust me....No matter how perfect a product is there will always be "posts complaining about it!

Please notice that you are now saying almost precisely what I said in post #41 .
I still maintain that the truck is not flawed. I have modified nearly every car/truck which I have ever owned. Not because Ford was incompetent, but because they provided a great foundation for custom mods which suited my needs. Same goes for others....

Quote from post #41....
"Bottom line is that a custom tune for specific applications can be a good thing, but the truck is factory tuned to offer the best overall performance for the normal range of targeted applications.
My truck simply would not benefit from an aftermarket tune (engine or transmission).
The good news is that you have that option! "

So we are now on the same page!

I too like small displacement turbocharged engines.
My first (turbo) project was to turbocharge a 1981 RX7, then an SVO 2.3L turbo in my 1980 Pinto.
Remember the Merkur XR4Ti Great car, even better than the Saab.
IMO the EcoBoost cars are well developed and the right solution for today's transportation needs.
In addition to the Ranger we have a 2.3L EcoBoost Mustang and a 3.5L EcoBoost Explorer in the family today.

 

[D Fresh]

If the truck does not downshift, that means the requested torque can be fulfilled in the gear the truck is in.

If you are just easing into the throttle, then it makes sense that the truck hold gear if it can provide the acceleration in that gear. If you want more acceleration, just push the skinny pedal harder. It's really that simple. If the truck is doing what you want it to, why worry about what gear it's in?

Do you really want a trans that's hopping gears every time you breathe on the throttle pedal? I personally do not, and I'd wager most drivers don't. Fortunately there are tune options for those that do.

That's the thing.

It's not doing what I want it to.

As smooth as this thing shifts, yes I'd love it to actually use all of it's capability. Or hold a gear longer like it does in Tow/Haul or S

Eventually it will be tuned. Till then I'll live with the tow/haul button.

 

[Floyd]

Took a short trip today in the Ranger.
56MPH in 10th gear is exactly 1500 RPM.
The truck simply can not be coaxed into 10th gear until 50MPH... even that requires no load or even a light lift on the throttle.
At 50MPH it will then coast along on flat ground at +-1300 RPM unless it encounters a load of any kind (I.E. a slight grade, or gentle acceleration). At which point it simply drops a gear or more depending on demand.
I generally set the cruise at +- 63MPH which is about 1700 RPM. on two lane rural highways.
That is optimal.
I could not induce "lugging" even intentionally although I did not attempt to manually upshift at a low speed. Not sure it would even allow that.
If I lift at 60MPH it will downshift with no load at +- 50MPH.
If I get back on the throttle it will simply choose the appropriate gear for the demand, I have to activate the dash readout if I want to know if or when it downshifts on a grade while on cruise.
Local small town and 23MPG on this tank of fuel.

Of course others may have a different experience, but I am impressed.

 

[Racket]

I use a tune from Unleashed and Torrie said he didn't fool with the shift tables... until one version kept me out if 10th for very long periods and wouldn't let me manually shift. Tow mode included. And S wouldn't manually give me going up gear once I downshifted. It was odd until he revised the tune.

Every time I removed a tune or installed one the driving behaviour revolving around the transmission would be a little late and hard/clunky shifting for a few days -or more if I was highway driving a lot.

To get the transmission 'used' to resetting itself I'd use all the modes and it seemed to smooth out. I got the latest tune with the (supposed) transmission 'smooth shift' update and while it's subtle I feel it's been more refined than putting it back to 'stock.' But then I've tweaked a few things along the way.

Not aware of there being a particular vibration and I haven't manually checked the transmission fluid level either.

 

[Dgc333]

Took a short trip today in the Ranger.
56MPH in 10th gear is exactly 1500 RPM.
The truck simply can not be coaxed into 10th gear until 50MPH... even that requires no load or even a light lift on the throttle.
At 50MPH it will then coast along on flat ground at +-1300 RPM unless it encounters a load of any kind (I.E. a slight grade, or gentle acceleration). At which point it simply drops a gear or more depending on demand.
I generally set the cruise at +- 63MPH which is about 1700 RPM. on two lane rural highways.
That is optimum.
I could not induce "lugging" even intentionally although I did not attempt to manually upshift at a low speed. Not sure it would even allow that.
If I lift at 60MPH it will downshift with no load at +- 50MPH.
If I get back on the throttle it will simply choose the appropriate gear for the demand, I have to activate the dash readout if I want to know if or when it downshifts on a grade while on cruise.
Local small town and 23MPG on this tank of fuel.

Of course others may have a different experience, but I am impressed.

I think you mention you have a 2wd Ranger, don't know the diameter of the tires but my Tremor has tires that are almost 32" in diameter. At 55 mph the engine would be turning 1200 to 1300 rpm in 10th. The 2.3 Ecoboost should never go below 1500 rpm in a steady state cruising state. As I said before it may not be detrimental but it sure is not smooth and it grates on me and degrades my enjoyment of the truck. This goes back to what I said earlier, if Ford was really interested in making this tranny the best it could be they would have tuned it to the tire diameter.

With the custom transmission tune my engine does not shift into 9th until just past 50mph and won't shift into 10th until a little over 60mph. Basically the transmission runs one gear lower than it did with the stock tune and keeps the rpm between 1500 and 2000 rpm in all steady state cruising situations.

 

[NotBudule]

With the custom transmission tune my engine does not shift into 9th until just past 50mph and won't shift into 10th until a little over 60mph. Basically the transmission runs one gear lower than it did with the stock tune and keeps the rpm between 1500 and 2000 rpm in all steady state cruising situations.

Is that pretty close to tow mode minus the engine braking?

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