My new ARE topper installed today.. is this right?

[NickTheEnforcer]

The use of air tools that are operator dependent are the bane of the automotive industry, both the aftermarket and the OEM. OEM are moving to electric torque controlled installation tools to preclude operator judgement. The aftermarket cannot afford these tools and result in situations like this Clearly over torques and likely the fastener was inserted into an air tool and shot into the aluminum frame and the operator failed to stop before the fastener was over torqued. Sad this had to happen to a customer. Hope the company remedies the problem. Ford has always since I was with the company tried to get away from operator dependent installs. Install. Tighten... Good to go. Not install, tighten..OOPS! I will try better on the next one. I have always said, unfortunately, the aftermarket follows the OEM by about 30 years. Not all aftermarket but many. Saw a aftermarket bumper manufacturing video on these forums. Laser cut blanks and then to an operator to use a press brake to form the bumper...operator dependent.... Guy in the video was good, but what if he is a no show after a night at the bar? Same bends on the press brake?

This is a contentious arena and folks stand solidly behind aftermarket parts and in many case the manufacturers produce quality parts for the most part, but the non quality parts slip through the mfg process might be too high. My Class A motor home is a classic example. First trip out my wife opens up a cabinet door over the sink, the door came off in her hand. The operator missed the wood cabinet when he/she shot the screws into the side styles. We chased this malady for several years before we got a handle on simple cabinet install errors.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

agree! with tool technology being what is its someone was too stupid or lazy to adjust the torque on their driver, worst they 'knew' they did it and passed it along as 'acceptable' work...sad.

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[FX4Offroad]

Some of your issues from the install are off-putting, some may be sloppy from the manufacturer. In a previous thread I discussed the cap on my 2009 Ram. At the time I looked at all the major brands/styles. I am lucky to have a good dealer/installer 15 min away. He gave me the pros/cons of each and I ended up with a LEER cap. If its a fiberglass cap there will be some dimensional variance b/c of how they are made. At this point you have to either raise a stink or live with it, if you make an issue of it in 6 months you will be out of luck for sure...JMO.

Either way run it thru a car wash for major leaks/defects. guaranteed you will have some minor water; they are never 100% sealed.

This is where I'm disappointed. I was told that a topper was completely waterproof. I believed it because I had one many, many years ago on a Dakota and it was 100% waterproof.

The guys that installed mine (Terry's Toppers in south Florida) have been in business for 40 years and have an excellent reputation.

Over the years, I've purchased two covers and this will be my 2nd topper from them and have never had a problem. This one leaks at the back window and at the bulkhead in the front. They admit that the '19 Ranger has an unusual bulkhead and have tried to get the leaks resolved by resealing and completely removeing and reinstalling it.

Still leaks

 

[Deleted member 1634]

Either way run it thru a car wash for major leaks/defects. guaranteed you will have some minor water; they are never 100% sealed.

You could make it 100% sealed if you really wanted to. Just have to caulk the whole perimeter where it meets the bed rails, fill all the holes/gaps at the rear window, paint the inside with waterproof sealant, and never want to take the topper off. haha

 

[Deleted member 1634]

agree! with tool technology being what is its someone was too stupid or lazy to adjust the torque on their driver, worst they 'knew' they did it and passed it along as 'acceptable' work...sad.

As someone who's job it is to figure out how to fix defects and damage created during manufacturing, I'm not surprised by any quality issues anymore. Disappointed definitely, but not surprised. There are definitely people out on the floor who care and do their best, but there are also definitely plenty of people who don't and just get the job done and pass it along, no matter the state. I don't understand it, because I do the best work I can everyday, no matter if I'm enjoying it or not. But they're out there all over the place, doing mediocre work and not caring about it. Quite frustrating.

 

[FX4Offroad]

As someone who's job it is to figure out how to fix defects and damage created during manufacturing, I'm not surprised by any quality issues anymore. Disappointed definitely, but not surprised. There are definitely people out on the floor who care and do their best, but there are also definitely plenty of people who don't and just get the job done and pass it along, no matter the state. I don't understand it, because I do the best work I can everyday, no matter if I'm enjoying it or not. But they're out there all over the place, doing mediocre work and not caring about it. Quite frustrating.

You're 100% correct. You see it in all professions. Unfortunately, I believe you're seeing it more frequently.

An "honest days work" doesn't count anymore.

Sad

 

[gfitzge2]

The use of air tools that are operator dependent are the bane of the automotive industry, both the aftermarket and the OEM. OEM are moving to electric torque controlled installation tools to preclude operator judgement. The aftermarket cannot afford these tools and result in situations like this Clearly over torques and likely the fastener was inserted into an air tool and shot into the aluminum frame and the operator failed to stop before the fastener was over torqued. Sad this had to happen to a customer. Hope the company remedies the problem. Ford has always since I was with the company tried to get away from operator dependent installs. Install. Tighten... Good to go. Not install, tighten..OOPS! I will try better on the next one. I have always said, unfortunately, the aftermarket follows the OEM by about 30 years. Not all aftermarket but many. Saw a aftermarket bumper manufacturing video on these forums. Laser cut blanks and then to an operator to use a press brake to form the bumper...operator dependent.... Guy in the video was good, but what if he is a no show after a night at the bar? Same bends on the press brake?

This is a contentious arena and folks stand solidly behind aftermarket parts and in many case the manufacturers produce quality parts for the most part, but the non quality parts slip through the mfg process might be too high. My Class A motor home is a classic example. First trip out my wife opens up a cabinet door over the sink, the door came off in her hand. The operator missed the wood cabinet when he/she shot the screws into the side styles. We chased this malady for several years before we got a handle on simple cabinet install errors.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Phil.

I agree the electric torque controlled installation tools are really a great quality improvement to the auto industry. I walked my 2011 SuperDuty through the plant as it was built. When it came off the line I got a CAL supervisor to print me a build report. It showed every torque tool pass/fail reading. Mine was particularly clean in that only one torque tool failed , it was an automatic nut runner and it passed on the second try. To your point, it is an added expense to the manufacturer to purchase, maintain and keep them in calibration. But they greatly improve quality and they flag any problems so that they hopefully get rectified and don't get out of the plant. It is good that Ford uses them almost every where.

While I am on this soap box let me mention that robotic welders, riveters painters, etc. also improve quality. They go to the same place every time. Almost always if there is a location problem it has to do with metal fit or an issue with the end of arm tooling. The robot didn't just decide to change the location of it's path. It also didn't have a late night out last night or a disagreement with its boss, or just a bad attitude.
Some will say, but what about the jobs that the robot replaces? Yes they do replace some jobs. Dirty, dangerous and dull jobs are the prime candidates for automation. And they create some more technical jobs to program and maintain them. I spent 28 years doing just that.

Back on subject. It looks like ARE could use some better equipment and quality control inspection.

 

[NickTheEnforcer]

You could make it 100% sealed if you really wanted to. Just have to caulk the whole perimeter where it meets the bed rails, fill all the holes/gaps at the rear window, paint the inside with waterproof sealant, and never want to take the topper off. haha

I'm in construction [past 25 years] so I'm very familiar with hi-performance sealants. Since I dont and never did buy-into that a truck bed with a cap or cover would be 100% sealed I never entertained the ideal to go 'caulk crazy'..I know folks who have though. JMO.

 

[ch47dmechanic]

This is where I'm disappointed. I was told that a topper was completely waterproof. I believed it because I had one many, many years ago on a Dakota and it was 100% waterproof.

The guys that installed mine (Terry's Toppers in south Florida) have been in business for 40 years and have an excellent reputation.

Over the years, I've purchased two covers and this will be my 2nd topper from them and have never had a problem. This one leaks at the back window and at the bulkhead in the front. They admit that the '19 Ranger has an unusual bulkhead and have tried to get the leaks resolved by resealing and completely removeing and reinstalling it.

Still leaks

Maybe it's just me, but mine doesn't leak under normal circumstances. I've camped in it in the rain many times and haven't had any leaking issues. The only time I see water intrusion is if I spray the hose too closely to the rear glass window's corners while washing it. Even then though, it's minimal at best and dries quickly on the BedRug. ?‍

 

[Deleted member 1634]

I'm in construction [past 25 years] so I'm very familiar with hi-performance sealants. Since I dont and never did buy-into that a truck bed with a cap or cover would be 100% sealed I never entertained the ideal to go 'caulk crazy'..I know folks who have though. JMO.

Oh, I wouldn't do it either. Just throwing out there that it's not impossible for anyone who wants to if they try hard enough. haha

 

[2019hotpepper4x4]

You're 100% correct. You see it in all professions. Unfortunately, I believe you're seeing it more frequently.

An "honest days work" doesn't count anymore.

Sad

Agreed, in my industry, home building, I feel
Like we have done this to ourselves by driving prices down and losing quality tradesmen in the process. We, and our customers, are now paying the price for years of driving costs down. True, qualified workers are hard to find at the rates the larger builders are willing to pay. It’s sad, not just for the quality but for the workers and the end product.

 

[Deleted member 1634]

Agreed, in my industry, home building, I feel
Like we have done this to ourselves by driving prices down and losing quality tradesmen in the process. We, and our customers, are now paying the price for years of driving costs down. True, qualified workers are hard to find at the rates the larger builders are willing to pay. It’s sad, not just for the quality but for the workers and the end product.

Same here. When someone can get the same amount, or even more, working at the gas station down the road then it's hard to get skilled people to come to work. Or go down to The Cities and get paid almost twice as much (especially engineers). Of course the cost of living is more, but it still works out in your favor if you're willing to move.

Most of the long term skilled people here are either hold overs from starting the company or they have other ties to this area and it wouldn't make sense for them to move for none work related reasons.

 

[GTGallop]

This is where I'm disappointed. I was told that a topper was completely waterproof. I believed it because I had one many, many years ago on a Dakota and it was 100% waterproof.

I had an '84 Ranger with an Aluminum Leer Topper. Nice set up. It was the kind that pushed up against the cab and you could slide the cab window open and reach back into. That seal had to go like a half moon or horse shoe all the way around the rear window. Lots of area to seal! It was 99.999% waterproof. Only time it leaked at all was when I took it through the car wash and the high pressure jets hit it. Some drops would make it through. Other than that, we had the technology 36 years ago to make a topper out of inferior material with a poor design but they can't make one waterproof today? We don't even have a functioning Space Shuttle any more? Should be TONS of scientists laying around to get on this problem.

 

[Chili Rick]

easier said than done... the dealer is almost four hours away. so if this is par for the course ill just deal with it. but if this is not typical, and/or moving the topper will improve its function it would be good to know!

I don't have experience with your topper. The telephone or email to the manufacturer would be a good starting place for both the fit and (IMHO) the very crappy interior workmanship. Personally I would be pitching a fit over what was delivered. I know shells are a lot more expensive than the $2K I have in my tonneau cover, and I would at the least have the trim replaced. I think I might chose to install it rather than the dealer.

Hope it works out in the end.

Cheers
Rick

 

[Michael Bailey]

Howdy folks. newbie here. we bought a new ARE topper and had dealer install today. now that its home im looking around and im a little surprised about a couple things. wanted the experienced folks' advice here.

1) is this seated correctly? from a glance, i would have guessed it should have sat about a centimeter further forward. the leading edge seems to sit just a tad to the rear of where i would have expected it to produce a clean line. not sure that matters much.

the rear seems to sit a tad further back than what would make a clean line. that one matters to me because at the corners it leaves more of a gap than i would like. it will be cludgy to seal these corners with rubber trim etc and while the rear center of the topper liftgate meets the top center of the tailgate, i suspect the topper liftgate would likely flex a little and allow a better fit across the entire top if the entire topper was a little forward, and would avoid those gaps at either side.

2) i guess i was a little taken aback at the workmanship. we splurged on ARE because of almost universal reviews that it was a 'higher quality' topper. but this one looks like it was put together by a teenager that didnt care about his work. almost 50% of the screws holding the aluminum track that lines the side windows have bent the tracks (like they couldnt afford a driver with a clutch) and some are stripped, there are lots of scratches in the aluminum track on the inside where the black paint has been chipped or scratched off the track. and the C-clamps are bulky and are each about 4 inches away from another clamp site with a hole in the rail that makes it look like it was previously mounted on a different truck for a while.

this was new. to our specifications. is this normal? from what i can tell, none of these will ultimately affect the function of the topper, but its disappointing in a new pricey item, and i dont know if less than perfectionist workmanship suggests we are going to be struggling with leaks and failures further down the line.

im interested in folks' experience here. especially as it will take me some time to seal the many gaps and holes, and doing that will make shifting it around a pain in the butt.

The front to back issue is minor, you just loosen the fasteners and slide it back. But those other flaws are fatal and I would just take it back and tell them to keep it.

I shopped a bit and decided against ARE because of their poor quality reputation.

 

[charwest]

i certainly appreciate your collective advice. update for folks who were interested:

the dealer hemmed and hawed and made a lot of excuses and claimed that everything was normal and there was 'no way' ARE was going to consider this out of spec, but i insisted they check and apparently ARE does consider this poor work. they are sending new windows for replacement and the dealer says they will adjust the cap and seal it again.

however after such a haphazard install and bad service we are tired of that dealer so found another one in a roadtrip worthy direction and will have them replace the windows and seal the cap. because currently it isnt sealed at all.

we'll see, but im feeling cautiously optimistic. thanks again, everyone.

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