Driveshaft Phasing

[Willcuts93]

Yeah and I'm tempted to contact Dana/Spicer to find out why it is being manufactured like this......

Do you happen to have access to a vcmm with the accelerometers?

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[Frenchy]

Do you happen to have access to a vcmm with the accelerometers?

In do but I dont know when I will have time to set it up

 

[Willcuts93]

In do but I dont know when I will have time to set it up

Might be interesting to see if you could get some screenshots of it. I haven't fought any vibrations on a ranger yet. I've had pretty good luck detecting vibration issues on drivelines by attaching an accelerometers to the carrier bearing bracket though. Just make sure to use a couple zip ties, those magnets don't hold as well under a vehicle while driving.

 

[Frenchy]

Might be interesting to see if you could get some screenshots of it. I haven't fought any vibrations on a ranger yet. I've had pretty good luck detecting vibration issues on drivelines by attaching an accelerometers to the carrier bearing bracket though. Just make sure to use a couple zip ties, those magnets don't hold as well under a vehicle while driving.

I'll keep that in mind. When no do go to mess with it I will try to keep as much data as possible. The funny thing is my Shop Forman is trying to say the driveshaft is normal and he should know better than that. All the old school guys would loom for the driveshaft phasing befor a young pup like myself would.

 

[Porpoise Hork]

I'll keep that in mind. When no do go to mess with it I will try to keep as much data as possible. The funny thing is my Shop Forman is trying to say the driveshaft is normal and he should know better than that. All the old school guys would loom for the driveshaft phasing befor a young pup like myself would.

I'm what you would brand old school as far as mechanics go. I had not been aware of the phasing thing as the vast majority of setups back in the day had clocked splines to prevent this sort of thing. But what set me off to know something's not right here is the sheer number of balance weights all over the shaft. I cannot remember ever seeing one with as many weights on it as this.

 

[blackcat5RS]

HI Matt,

Driveshaft length is determines the critical speed of the shaft. This speed is when the driveshaft starts to "jump rope". When the Driveshaft is too long, critical speed of the shaft can be lowered into the actual vehicle speed range.. Not allowed by Ford. So for longer driveshafts, you can increase the diameter of the shaft, change the material to aluminum or composite, or resort to a two piece shaft which is inherently prone to start up shudder. Why the Ranger program chose the two piece is beyond me, but they did for some reason. This has nothing do do with phasing which is that the U joint Yokes are all aligned. The video with a yard stick is an attempt to show misphased U joints, but failed in my opinion as I could not determine if the two shafts were actually out of phase. Giving benefit of the doubt to the video. It would be that the shafts were one output spline off. The fix is to reindex the the rear driveshaft one spline.

Most times on two piece driveshafts, the misindex is addressed by making the spline shaft with a blocked spline which means the drive shaft and the slip yoke can only go on in one way...but I do not know if the Aussies that designed the Ranger did this.

So my recommendation is to take it back to the dealer for addressing the out of phase driveline.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Well said...I own and run an engineering company that does vibration analysis, phase analysis, balancing, and video Deflection...we also design and build the equipment to do this. The only way to fix phase related resonance is to add mass to dampen it...balance precisely...or change material of construction which does nothing more than to change the resonance frequency. If someone can record the drive shaft with their iPhone in slow motion mode as it turns I can process the video and give concrete evidence that would support the need for something to be done by Ford if the data supports it.

 

[Bob]

The drive shaft can be reindexed - mark rear shaft & yoke with a center punch, Not paint.You will be putting it back together in the original configuration. Take a picture of the step less ear clamp, so it can be put back in the same orientation. It has balance value. The yoke has 2 spline out areas. 1 opposite the other. The stub shaft has blue epoxy on it.One of the grooves is filled or partially filled with epoxy. The groove must be cleaned out with a small cutoff wheel grinder. DON"T cut into the metal. Keep trying for fit. New problem! The shaft will be out of phase about 4 or 5 degrees the other direction and out of balance. Try it if you want, and then you will probably put it back to original. Flange Bolts 81 lb ft carrier bearing 32 lb ft. The softness of the carrier bearing is not a problem. I put 4 small pieces of heavy gas line around it to stiffen it. Made vibration real bad. Phasing is only part of the problem. This from the service manual - DRIVE LINE SHUDDER - occurs during acceleration from a slow speed or stop = Drive line angles out of spec. Since the transmission & carrier bearing angles can't be adjusted to 0 degrees. The Pinion shaft as per the flange must be at the same angle as the front section of the drive shaft. In other words parallel. Mine is off about 2.6 degrees, axle needs shimmed. I bought a new drive shaft in December $600 with shipping. Ford changed the part #. The new shaft had the new #, But when I peeled the sticker off , underneath.was the same old #. Same old out of phase shaft.Have another appointment with my dealer next week. AT FORDS REQUEST. I will Probably have my pinion angle changed and a new drive shaft made locally,at my expense. Then FORD and my dealer will want to void my warranty. I WILL fix this problem!

 

[Marshal.]

Does anyone know if the carrier bearing is available separately? If it’s cost effective, it might be worth reinforcing it with 3M Window Weld to stiffen it up, until/if an aftermarket option is available.
have done this many times on racecars for motor/transmission mounts.

 

[SpaceRanger]

Just curious, do we know if Ford has acknowledged this, the vibration, is an issue? You know, other than dealerships and service departments saying "the vibration is normal"? Because, well, it sure as hell is not normal.

 

[MountainRanger92382]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if they outsourced the shaft assembly to an overseas company who has little to no understanding of proper phasing/balance techniques or procedures.

I have the inclining to take these pictures and the videos of the shaft bouncing around to a local drive shaft specialist to see what they say about it. I mean it's almost worth paying them to run a diagnostic on it to see what they find.

Just curious, do we know if Ford has acknowledged this, the vibration, is an issue? You know, other than dealerships and service departments saying "the vibration is normal"? Because, well, it sure as hell is not normal.

I spoke to Ford on Friday and worked my way up the manager food chain as I have the same issue. To say that they have not acknowledged the problem and are not too interested in discussing it is an understatement. I am having to put myself in time out with them as their lack of give a sh*t is infuriating. I have truly enjoyed, if that is the right word, having this forum as a point of reference on everyone else's experience.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

I spoke to Ford on Friday and worked my way up the manager food chain as I have the same issue. To say that they have not acknowledged the problem and are not too interested in discussing it is an understatement. I am having to put myself in time out with them as their lack of give a sh*t is infuriating. I have truly enjoyed, if that is the right word, having this forum as a point of reference on everyone else's experience.

Hi Andrew,

I know you are infuriated with Ford Customer Service and I do not blame you. I cannot defend these folks as they treat retirees worse as we are supposed to shut up and tough it out.... I have had no success getting to anyone in Light Truck Engineering to respond to my other than the PVT Manager. He could not recall from the time of the 2019 launch to his retirement about 6 months ago of any driveline problems, so I would estimate that this has not bubbled up at the plant engineering level for some reason... The PVT supports and conducts production vehicle evaluations, and it is puzzling why it has not been flagged by the PVT.

I am about out of options inside the company...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[CompDude]

I am hoping this gets worked out before I purchase our new ranger..

 

[stubob]

I saw this on another thread. Might be relevant.

https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/take-off-vibration-video.7368/post-138177

 

[MountainRanger92382]

Hi Andrew,

I know you are infuriated with Ford Customer Service and I do not blame you. I cannot defend these folks as they treat retirees worse as we are supposed to shut up and tough it out.... I have had no success getting to anyone in Light Truck Engineering to respond to my other than the PVT Manager. He could not recall from the time of the 2019 launch to his retirement about 6 months ago of any driveline problems, so I would estimate that this has not bubbled up at the plant engineering level for some reason... The PVT supports and conducts production vehicle evaluations, and it is puzzling why it has not been flagged by the PVT.

I am about out of options inside the company...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

What are the chances that a custom fabricated one piece driveshaft would solve all of this completely?

 

[P. A. Schilke]

What are the chances that a custom fabricated one piece driveshaft would solve all of this completely?

Hi Andrew,

I would be concerned to several things. First is does the shop have software to determine the critical speed of the driveshaft to make is is beyond the driveshaft speed of the top speed of the vehicle. Second is the diameter of the driveshaft they are going to fabricate. Third is out of what material are they making the shaft. Steel...forget it. Aluminum...Maybe...Composite likely would work.

I have a couple back stories on driveshafts and the Ranger. First story...

We had an idea pitched by Marketing to make a 4x2 Ranger look like a 4x4 and called the Edge.
We looked at lifting a 4x2 but dismissed this for many engineering reasons. What we decided was to use a 4x4 frame with torsion bar suspension but no front axle. We stripped a 4x4 of the front axle, using only the spindles stripped the powertrain of the Transmisson/transfer case. Fitted a 4x2 powertrain and driveshaft. We were concerned with driveshaft clearance to the No 3 crossmember. We did a jounce study that showed the clearance to the driveshaft was about ¼" and Ford requirements for rotating components to non rotating components was 1". Was not going to comply, but we decided to try and see under dynamic conditions if the 4x2 driveshaft would actually hit the crossmember. My engineer and I decided to remove the rear shocks and try to see if we had driveshaft to crossmember contact. This engineer was a bit of a cowboy and seized the opportunity for a test on our undulating road protion of the Dearborn Test Track. So "cowboy Dave" headed out to attack this test...approaching the woops at about 40 mph. Whooh Nelly...he experienced a wild ride. Now we had clayed up the crossmember so we could measure the clearance to the driveshaft. He came back into the X garage and we saw that the shaft was not all that close to the crossmember.. about half an inch. So we had the crossmember modifies to gain the needed half inch as it did nothing in that area other than to be a fuel tank support on the left side. An so the Ranger Edge was born... I still see one on occasion here in Green Valley.

Another back story on the Econoline. The Econoline program decided to put a composite driveshaft into the E350. We tested this and it was wonderful... So the composite driveshaft went into production. Almost immediatelly the plant drives flagged a serious vibration at all speeds. Since I was in NVH at the time, I was sent the to the Lorain Assembly Plant. I verified that this was a do not build condition...unacceptable vibrations. Short story. The driveshaft manufacturer hand built the prototypes but in production used drying racks to support production shafts at each end of the shaft, this resulted in a sag of the shaft and caused a jump rope condition. So we pulled the driveshafts out of production and reverted to steel until the manufaturer could manufacture straight driveshafts. Sheesh!

So be aware of packaging of custom driveshafts... It may bite you.... Way too much Scotch tonight to type any more....good night!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

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