Do I need to get winter/snow tires ?

[TechnicallyReal]

+1 for the 'get winters' vote from me.

I mean you can 'make do'.. until you can't. Just takes one unexpected event to change your life, or the lives of others.

FWIW insurance is more without winters, and your neighbors in Quebec have to put on winters by-law.

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[Fastfitzy]

Ab

I used to laugh, every Winter, on my 45 minute commute on the Maine turnpike watching SUV's and 4x4's go flying by me as I'm doing my sedate 45mph in snow storms and 15 or 20 minutes later I see them way off in the willy-wacks or upside down in the ditch. Two wheel drive, or four wheel drive, we still have the same four tires on the ground to stop with. Bigger vehicles just have go farther into the woods to stop when they go off the road in a storm.

absolutely, the overconfidence of 4x4 trucks and SUVs is so sad. Before my ranger I’ve driven a FWD Scion TC for the last 10 years. And on icy interstates it did superb, while seeing truck after truck in the ditch

 

[VAMike]

absolutely, the overconfidence of 4x4 trucks and SUVs is so sad. Before my ranger I’ve driven a FWD Scion TC for the last 10 years. And on icy interstates it did superb, while seeing truck after truck in the ditch

people are dumb--they don't understand that 4x4 only gets you started, don't have a plan for stopping

 

[tugger50]

I have always said that the difference between 2WD & 4WD is that in 4WD it's like having 4 roller skates on instead of two.

 

[VAMike]

Thanks for that link.

I love this part in the article: (emphasis mine)

Many drivers fail to understand that, largely due to the confusing three-peak mountain snowflake symbol displayed prominently on the sidewall of many all-terrains. That symbol is awarded by the U.S. Tire Manufacturer’s Association to any tire that demonstrates acceleration on snow that’s 10 percent greater than a reference all-season tire.

You can probably spot the trouble there: A 10-percent improvement isn’t great. Plus, that reference tire is now decades old and wasn’t exactly a good snow tire to begin with. That makes the three-peak mountain snowflake essentially meaningless.

Also really important to realize that this is only a useful metric for getting moving in soft snow--says nothing at all about ice or plowed/packed snow. Highway regs should really be updated to abandon the three peaks and move to something more relevant.

Our big problem here is that the last couple of years have had stretches of January temperatures well above what's recommended for winter tires. So putting winters on for driving north or up in the mountains comes at the expense of driving locally for a big chunk of the winter. (Or really burning through the winters on warm pavement.)

 

[FordFreak]

The FX4 package comes with AT tires. I don't think you will need to purchase specific tires. I think you will have an excellent idea once you see them. I have yet to drive in huge snow, so I can't vouch for the OEM tires but they look like they would do the job.
v/r,
Rich

I can vouch for the Hankook tires in snow. They SUCK!

 

[Deleted member 1634]

I can vouch for the Hankook tires in snow. They SUCK!

They're fine in snow. They're just not good in ice, slush, hardpack, or any other type of winter condition. But some nice fresh snow covered roads, those they have no real problem with. Those types of road conditions don't happen very often around here though, so that's why mine are not good winter tires.

 

[slowmachine]

Also really important to realize that this is only a useful metric for getting moving in soft snow--says nothing at all about ice or plowed/packed snow. Highway regs should really be updated to abandon the three peaks and move to something more relevant.

Our big problem here is that the last couple of years have had stretches of January temperatures well above what's recommended for winter tires. So putting winters on for driving north or up in the mountains comes at the expense of driving locally for a big chunk of the winter. (Or really burning through the winters on warm pavement.)

I’ve seen commentary saying that the ASTM test is badly outdated, and that there is a push to adopt a new reference standard. The best tires are currently performing at 130-140% of the reference tire, so a tire that barely qualifies for the mountain snowflake symbol is far behind the leaders in performance. Echoing my earlier comments, I like to see the actual numbers, not subjective opinions.

Even in New Hampshire, I switched back and forth between snow and all-season tires several times in last January's unusually warm weather. The hassle of doing that is part of my motivation to test the Coopers.

 

[VAMike]

I’ve seen commentary saying that the ASTM test is badly outdated, and that there is a push to adopt a new reference standard. The best tires are currently performing at 130-140% of the reference tire, so a tire that barely qualifies for the mountain snowflake symbol is far behind the leaders in performance. Echoing my earlier comments, I like to see the actual numbers, not subjective opinions.

"What do we want?" "4 peaks!" "When do we want it?" "Before winter!"

 

[BCRanger]

In my experience you only see really awful wear on "real" snows when it is really hot, i.e. around 30 C. Where I live you could end up with conditions where you need for snows from early November through early April, so almost half the year. In fact usually when I buy winters for car I really think about it like getting a "summer" tire and then a tire for the rest of the year. That's awesome for a car because you can get a really grippy summer high performance tire without "all season" compromises. But for a truck the logic is reversed, if that makes sense.

During shoulder season we will be using the truck in really mixed conditions, lots of dry roads but also muddy and rocky trails in addition to winter conditions. We have a FWD EV car that ironically we will be using to get up to the ski hill most of the time and it has high end dedicated snows.

My concern comes into play more around road trips and so on. I don't worry about getting stuck in the snow. That's a pain in the ass but generally isn't unsafe -- and I can't think of the last time its happened to me where I couldn't get out with a little creativity and finesse. My concern is purely about how tires deal with unexpected encounters with black ice or those days when we have freezing rain on packed snow and the street in our hilly town become a skating rink. All seasons are generally worthless in those kinds of conditions, but it looks like newer tires like the AT3 4S have been able to crack that nut to some extent.

By the way in my experience it's almost as important how a tire responds to ice than absolute traction. I'd prefer a tire that didn't have ultimate grip but lost grip predictably than a tire that seems to have decent traction but then breaks away suddenly. A car that is already drifting is much more controllable than one that wasn't and suddenly is!

My current strategy is to try the Coopers and then be ready to abort and grab dedicated winters if they end up feeling the least bit sketchy. This video suggests that they won't be completely worthless.

 

[BCRanger]

FYI, a good thread from Tacoma owners on the Coopers. A lot of folks saying they are good for first season or two and then not, but that's pretty consistent with snow tires as well.
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/cooper-discoverer-at3s-on-snow-and-ice-whats-too-much.540693/

 

[slowmachine]

FYI, a good thread from Tacoma owners on the Coopers. A lot of folks saying they are good for first season or two and then not, but that's pretty consistent with snow tires as well.
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/cooper-discoverer-at3s-on-snow-and-ice-whats-too-much.540693/

Interesting. No mention of tread depth. Even here in snow country, a lot of people don’t understand that 1/4” is the minimum tread depth for snowy conditions. I keep running them through the summer if the tread is 8/32 or less when the weather warms up, then trash them for new tires in October. I don’t think we’ve ever gotten more than two winters of use from any real snow tire, so I can’t comment on the rubber hardening over time.

 

[BCRanger]

I don’t think we’ve ever gotten more than two winters of use from any real snow tire, so I can’t comment on the rubber hardening over time.

Yeah exactly my experience, especially with the softer crazy good ice tires like Blizzaks. Not planning to put a lot of miles on the truck, but I think the issue is simply losing tread depth and the sipes just don't have enough depth anymore.

 

[SPEEDBUILT]

The FX4 package comes with AT tires. I don't think you will need to purchase specific tires. I think you will have an excellent idea once you see them. I have yet to drive in huge snow, so I can't vouch for the OEM tires but they look like they would do the job.
v/r,
Rich

Nope, AT tires suck in the snow. They also suck on ice, especially when braking. Snow tires are such a huge upgrade and one of the best bang-for-your-buck upgrades. You have four points of contact with the road-don’t skimp on tires!!!

 

[weasel1]

Two hours? That’s a 36-hour Drive.

Do you measure by time zones or do you have a crazy performance tune you should be telling us about?

I live two hours West of the OP, who lives in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Read harder.

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