Brakes failed!

dtech

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Hi Folks,

This is a summary of FMVSS 105 as it is way too complicated to post here. This is from the Haynes manual.


"By 1967, it was mandated by the Federal Government that all vehicles use a dual-brake master cylinder, with separate circuits in case of the failure of a line or other issue. The resulting dual circuit master cylinders typically have two separate chambers that separate the front and rear brake circuits, though some still are split diagonally.


This type of system prevents the total loss of braking action in the event of the system being compromised. The brakes still work even in the event of one seal in the master cylinder going bad, or a pressure leak in the system.


Either systems will stop the vehicle with only one circuit operating, and prevent an accident, though stopping distances are much greater. More than 75% of your braking is done with the front wheels, so if the rear brakes fail you may not even notice."

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
Conversely if the front brake circuit fails - as in the OPs case you notice it and quickly. Loaned my Saab to my brother and he brings it home one night saying " I think there is something wrong with your brakes" Well a front flexible line was slashed - and the there wasn't much fluid left nor braking , can't believe he even made it home. Moron. Took nearly a week to get the part as nobody local stocked them - extremely rare occurrence.





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Trigganometry

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I’ve had my pucker moment a few times with my 97 Ranger. 1st time was rear brake line rusted through at T fitting. Fronts still got me to stop but took some vise grips and pinched/folded line and got it to slow leak mode. That got me home!

Second time was a bit different but similar to what OP experience. Mine was caused by a stick that I drove over with the tire. From my racing days any debris on the road don’t straddle. If unavoidable drive over it with the tire and hope for the best. So when driving over a 2 foot 1” or so round stick it flipped up behind the wheel. I heard it snap and thought nothing more about it. Well it hooked my brake line in front and badly fractured it. Pucker moment 2 and this time zero braking power. Emergency to the floor and 10% of norm was all I got. Lucky I wasn’t flying or that would have been hell.

If I do anything like that now as soon as I can pull over and take a look and a hard pump test to see if all is well still.

Edit: can’t spell brake ether! 😆
 
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Sparky2

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Sure... feed the lawyers and sue Ford for an accident that didn't happen. Then complain why the cost of vehicles and other things by major corporations get so dang expensive.
My thoughts exactly!
 
OP
CB750F

CB750F

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UPDATE:

Picked up the truck, they replaced the hose & wheel, balanced, cleaned, greased, all good.

We asked about pre-inspection & they claim it was done, I can't prove it was not. They can claim
we took the wheel off & damaged it, but can't prove that either.

So we decided to pick our battles & this one was too grey.

Bottom line, no material damage, no personal injuries, no accident.
They fixed everything under warranty.

My assumption is, I'll be going there for the next 5 yrs for normal maintenance & the truck will last 200k miles with normal issues.

UNLESS!!!! They come out with the PHEV Ranger, then I think I'll trade, depending on specs.
By far most miles driven, 80/90%, is under 30 miles a day, so this would be a great option.

They lent us an Escape SE AWD, I don't like SUVs, wife was not crazy about it, consumed a lot of gas, seat were not comfortable for neither of us. We both love the Ranger seats.

Have a pleasant weekend.
 

Tracy Bowman

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UPDATE:

Picked up the truck, they replaced the hose & wheel, balanced, cleaned, greased, all good.

We asked about pre-inspection & they claim it was done, I can't prove it was not. They can claim
we took the wheel off & damaged it, but can't prove that either.

So we decided to pick our battles & this one was too grey.

Bottom line, no material damage, no personal injuries, no accident.
They fixed everything under warranty.

My assumption is, I'll be going there for the next 5 yrs for normal maintenance & the truck will last 200k miles with normal issues.

UNLESS!!!! They come out with the PHEV Ranger, then I think I'll trade, depending on specs.
By far most miles driven, 80/90%, is under 30 miles a day, so this would be a great option.

They lent us an Escape SE AWD, I don't like SUVs, wife was not crazy about it, consumed a lot of gas, seat were not comfortable for neither of us. We both love the Ranger seats.

Have a pleasant weekend.
Glad you had a good outcome!
 

12Bravo20

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CB750F,

I am glad that you got everything fixed and you have your truck back.

And from personal experience the dual-brake master cylinder, with separate circuits is not fool proof. The system definitely did not work like it should have on my wife's 2001 Chevy Cavalier, yes I know a Chevy. One of the lines to the rear brakes rusted out right at the firewall (underneath the vehicle) and I had zero brake pressure. I would not have gotten the vehicle stopped without the parking/emergency brake. I was just glad that I was driving and was in town at 25Mph.
 

GitRDone

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Glad you got it fixed, and it seems odd that this happened in the first place. In all the vehicles I have owned and/or worked on, I do not recall any with a hydraulic brake hose long enough to reach the wheel/tire, even with the attachment hardware removed. Hopefully Ford spots and corrects this potential liability before someone gets injured or killed.
 
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bearrug

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After reading through this entire post I think I will go check my brake lines.
 

P. A. Schilke

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Glad you got it fixed, and it seems odd that this happened in the first place. In all the vehicles I have owned and/or worked on, I do not recall any with a hydraulic brake hose long enough to reach the wheel/tire, even with the attachment hardware removed. Hopefully Ford spots and corrects this potential liability before someone gets injured or killed.
Hi Andrew,

Each new model where there are spindle or wheel tire etc changes, the Vehicle Dynamics area does a very involved jounce study where any brake hose to tire/wheel would have been flagged. I believe the dealer indicated that the bracket was bent. How this happened is not yet determined and maybe never will be determined. The jounce study requires the vehicle be chained to the ground on the hoist via huge bull rings and cables. The hoist is then used to cycle each side through droop to full jounce with the jounce bumpers removed...then one wheel is in droop while the other is in full metal to metal jounce and then the sides are reversed. At each point the wheels are cycled lock to lock. It is a time consuming process but critical to catch issues and or verify things are okay per the design requirements. Change spindle, wheel offset etc...you are in uncharted territory that a mere static visual will likely not show any problem that occurs dynamically.

Root cause in this case is how did the bracket get bent.... I choose to not speculate as I have not seen the pieces. It has been postulated that it is shipping damage....maybe so, but since we have a rail and haulaway test...it would have likely found during this test during the design engineer post test inspections of test vehicles.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
 

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