Ford Tried To Be Tesla, And It Cost The Company Billions

[5thranger]

Ford thought they were onto something calling an electric F150 the Lightning, but they should have kept that moniker on the bad ass ICE F150, with the way the coyote runs they would have sold alot better than a plug and play.

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[Rocketeer61]

I didn't mean to imply they ditched their cars for EV's. I meant that I thought it was a huge mistake ditching their cars in general. But with all the recalls lately who knows what the best choice was because they would've had a lot more recalls if they still produced cars now.

Well, that last sentence is pretty scary if it turns out to be true. Ours cars suck so bad we need to stop making them has to be the worst business model ever.

 

[Jason B]

Musk must not dislike them that much, because he sure takes his fair share of them!! If it wasn't for those subsidies Tesla would be bankrupt! And remember they were totally optional, just like the tax deductions you yourself take. You can always pay full price as Musk could, but you also, do not.

Yeah, I needed a commuter CAR for work and Ford quit making them. Honda and Toyota were out of them, so I looked at Hyundai, and I'm glad I did. I picked up a 2022


Then throw in the greedy dealerships that instantly did a "market adjustment" that weirdly enough, was the exact amount of the rebate. That turned me off to buying anything else made by Ford until they do direct to consumer sales. I've had 4 cars, and 9 trucks by Ford in my life so far.

I wonder if the sudden drop in prices has anything to do with the strict requirements to qualify for EV tax credits. You can get up to $7,500, BUT:

For vehicles placed in service January 1 to April 17, 2023:

• $2,500 base amount
• Plus $417 for a vehicle with at least 7 kilowatt hours of battery capacity
• Plus $417 for each kilowatt hour of battery capacity beyond 5 kilowatt hours
• Up to $7,500 total

And:
Qualified Vehicles
To qualify, a vehicle must:

• Have a battery capacity of at least 7 kilowatt hours
• Have a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 14,000 pounds
• Be made by a qualified manufacturer.
  • FCVs do not need to be made by a qualified manufacturer to be eligible. See Rev. Proc. 2022-42 for more detailed guidance.
• Undergo final assembly in North America
• Meet critical mineral and battery component requirements (as of April 18, 2023).

The sale qualifies only if:

• You buy the vehicle new
• The seller reports required information to you at the time of sale and to the IRS.
  • Sellers are required to report your name and taxpayer identification number to the IRS for you to be eligible to claim the credit.

In addition, the vehicle's manufacturer suggested retail price (MSRP) can't exceed:

• $80,000 for vans, sport utility vehicles and pickup trucks
• $55,000 for other vehicles

Qualified Vehicles
To qualify, a vehicle must:

• Have a battery capacity of at least 7 kilowatt hours
• Have a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 14,000 pounds
• Be made by a qualified manufacturer.
  • FCVs do not need to be made by a qualified manufacturer to be eligible. See Rev. Proc. 2022-42 for more detailed guidance.
• Undergo final assembly in North America
• Meet critical mineral and battery component requirements (as of April 18, 2023).

In addition, the vehicle's manufacturer suggested retail price (MSRP) can't exceed:

• $80,000 for vans, sport utility vehicles and pickup trucks
• $55,000 for other vehicles

To meet requirements set up in the IRA, manufacturers must ensure that battery critical minerals are “extracted or processed in the US or any country with which the US has a free trade agreement,” or recycled in North America. They must also ensure that battery components are “manufactured or assembled in North America.”


Maybe that last statement is what eating at the EV manufactures. I don't know what Ford and Tesla has in mind for their battery tech. It's possible that future batteries may not meet the requirements for tax credits, which means people aren't going to being getting an EV.

 

[WhyNot21]

Really surprised by all the EV haters out here.

I like to have my cake and eat it too. My Ranger got a new stablemate last week.

I didn't buy it for the reasons most on here think. I bought it for its tech and fun factor. It has power on demand at any speed. Some of you should get your heads out of your sandwiches and go test drive one. If for no other reason, just to educate yourselves.

Since this is a Ford forum, I'll give you a quick reason we passed on the Mustang-MachE. The dealers think they're selling gold at silver prices. They really need to get out of the Stone Age.

 

[12Bravo20]

Now add in the power grid that is being hammered by the current heat wave and people should see just how limited electric cars really are currently. Car and Driver has a good article in their current issue about the cost to recharge electrics. Using a public hi volt charger can run up to the equivalent of $12 per gallon. It is far cheaper to home charge but it takes longer and you are still at the mercy of the grid either way.

The power grid is one of the major hurdles. California is a prime example of why going all EV won't work (at this time). California has been having brown outs and blackout due to too many people trying to charge their EV'S at the same time, mostly during summer.

Another factor is not everyone lives in an urban or suburban area. An EV wouldn't work so well for us that live out in the country where major suburban areas are an hour or more away.

I would seriously consider the Maverick Hybrid if it had the same 4,000 pound towing capacity as the 2.0L Eco Boost with the factory tow package.

 

[Fordup]

Really surprised by all the EV haters out here.

I like to have my cake and eat it too. My Ranger got a new stablemate last week.

I didn't buy it for the reasons most on here think. I bought it for its tech and fun factor. It has power on demand at any speed. Some of you should get your heads out of your sandwiches and go test drive one. If for no other reason, just to educate yourselves.

Since this is a Ford forum, I'll give you a quick reason we passed on the Mustang-MachE. The dealers think they're selling gold at silver prices. They really need to get out of the Stone Age.

Not EV haters ,just smart enough to know the current EV won't work for us and they are far from going green when you understand the facts.

 

[WhyNot21]

Nor EV haters ,just smart enough to know the current EV won't work for us and they are far from going green when you understand the facts.

What won't work for you?

As I stated, going green had nothing to do with our decision. Have you driven one?

 

[AzScorpion]

Really surprised by all the EV haters out here.

I like to have my cake and eat it too. My Ranger got a new stablemate last week.

I didn't buy it for the reasons most on here think. I bought it for its tech and fun factor. It has power on demand at any speed. Some of you should get your heads out of your sandwiches and go test drive one. If for no other reason, just to educate yourselves.

Since this is a Ford forum, I'll give you a quick reason we passed on the Mustang-MachE. The dealers think they're selling gold at silver prices. They really need to get out of the Stone Age.

It's not so much I hate them it's I don't like the government trying to force something down my throat. Let the free market dictate if EV's are the newest and best technology. Also if they were there wouldn't be a need for all the subsidies which we see now that sales went down once they took them away. I still think they're trying to put the cart before the horse. Perfect Hybrids and a good PHEV which I think would be the most beneficial to the average driver/commuter. No need for home charging which no one who lives in an apartment or condo will ever be able to do with an EV. Not everyone lives and works in the city and HOA's will never allow extensions running all down the front of your house to charge your EV parked in lot or the street. lol

I'm sure EV's are great for some but for others like myself they're totally impractical. I'm sure technology will advance and the trucks will be able to tow/haul for longer mileage at some point too. But for now I need a truck and paying $100K for something that can't get me even 200 miles towing is a joke.

 

[Fordup]

What won't work for you?

As I stated, going green had nothing to do with our decision. Have you driven one?

I won't, the power grid we are on has become very unreliable lately with frequent outages. The towing numbers I have seen in real world tests are terrible. And a neighbor bought one last year that he dumped in less then 3 months because of the cost of cold weather charging with the heaters constantly running. Could barely make it to town and back during freezing weather. Just talked to a farmer that went to buy a lightning and his family has been dealing with the same salesman for years. He was told don't buy now because Ford still has major battery issues.

 

[WhyNot21]

It's not so much I hate them it's I don't like the government trying to force something down my throat. Let the free market dictate if EV's are the newest and best technology. Also if they were there wouldn't be a need for all the subsidies which we see now that sales went down once they took them away. I still think they're trying to put the cart before the horse. Perfect Hybrids and a good PHEV which I think would be the most beneficial to the average driver/commuter. No need for home charging which no one who lives in an apartment or condo will ever be able to do with an EV. Not everyone lives and works in the city and HOA's will never allow extensions running all down the front of your house to charge your EV parked in lot or the street. lol

I'm sure EV's are great for some but for others like myself they're totally impractical. I'm sure technology will advance and the trucks will be able to tow/haul for longer mileage at some point too. But for now I need a truck and paying $100K for something that can't get me even 200 miles towing is a joke.

Yes, this thread was originally directed at the F150 Lightning, which I agree, has limited purpose in its current form. They have to start somewhere, or progress will never happen, though. I was driving back in the '70's when emission standards started causing vehicles to be neutered. 0-60 times on say a 1975 Corvette were ~8 seconds! Look at what's possible now.

HOA's are starting to come around. It's advantageous for them to setup charging networks in their communities. Think of it as another revenue source for them. When I was in my first HOA, they wouldn't allow satellite dishes on individual units. It didn't take long for that to change.

In my many years of being on this earth, I've learned there is one thing that is constant. That is change. You either go with the flow, or be left behind screaming. I don't have many years left here, so I may as well enjoy what I can.

I've said my piece, so carry on...

 

[Jason B]

I have come around to owning an EV. My daily drive is 27 miles one way, easy for an EV.
One of the problems keeping me from buying into it is that I don't have a garage, so no way to get a home charger. Without home charging, EV is a big no.

 

[AzScorpion]

Yes, this thread was originally directed at the F150 Lightning, which I agree, has limited purpose in its current form. They have to start somewhere, or progress will never happen, though. I was driving back in the '70's when emission standards started causing vehicles to be neutered. 0-60 times on say a 1975 Corvette were ~8 seconds! Look at what's possible now.

HOA's are starting to come around. It's advantageous for them to setup charging networks in their communities. Think of it as another revenue source for them. When I was in my first HOA, they wouldn't allow satellite dishes on individual units. It didn't take long for that to change.

In my many years of being on this earth, I've learned there is one thing that is constant. That is change. You either go with the flow, or be left behind screaming. I don't have many years left here, so I may as well enjoy what I can.

I've said my piece, so carry on...

I'm looking at this solely from a truck perspective right now. I have no use for a car but maybe one day I will but I still believe a hybrid is the way to go for now. Until we get better batteries (longer range/towing & hauling) they just make more sense for those doing truck things.

I'm not against going green and I do have solar for my house. Of course I'd be a hypocrite to say I wouldn't have done it without the tax breaks which were almost $10K on my system.

One major problem I see for now is the time/length it takes to charge. Ok so an HOA puts in several charging stations in their community but how do they determine who gets to use them? There's only so much free space where you can add these stations to if any at all. My community would have to wipe out their green spaces (which would have to go before the city planning board) if they wanted to do that. Even them there's 308 houses here with an average of 2 vehicles per house. You'd need several hundred charges to make everyone happy or there will be fights I can guarantee you that.

But I just read this article where Tesla (who else ) is on the verge of making a deal witha German company called Wiferion for wireless charging for industrial robots and EVs. This will be a huge benefit depending on cost and setup. I hate change of any kind but maybe there is some hope for me after all.?

https://news.yahoo.com/tesla-may-brink-adopting-futuristic-021938457.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

Electrek reported that Tesla may be close to acquiring a German company called Wiferion that was founded in 2016 and focuses on creating inductive — wireless — charging for industrial robots and EVs.

While the deal is not done yet, Tesla has been named in an official filing. According to Business Insider (Google-translated from German), “One of the Wiferion investors had confirmed the exit to an ‘interesting buyer’ without naming a name. … Tesla is likely to have paid at least a mid-to-high double-digit million amount for the Bavarian startup.”

One issue with wireless charging is it has been much less efficient than plug-in charging. However, according to Electrek, “the technology has been closing the gap in recent years,” opening the door for this futuristic advancement.

 

[dtech]

According to Google the answer is
To start, the legal owner of Taco Tuesday® is actually Taco John's, a popular Midwestern chain of Mexican restaurants. This sounds pretty straight forward on the surface, but there's a wide variety of other factors that need to be considered. Well, isn't Taco Tuesday just a common phrase?

Been many yrs since I've eaten at Taco bell, tried Taco John's once and it was awful, occasionally have eaten at qdoba, won't patronize Chipotle as when their hq was in Denver they skunked me on an deal , Taco John's iirc has hq in Cheyenne wy, tried to sell them some sh*t but besides pos they have little need for it stuff. Casa Bonita has finally reopened in Denver, my daughter ate there and reports the food is better as it should be for a price of $39. Casa Bonita is Denver landmark with cliff divers and known for bad Mexican food, the south park guys bought it a few yrs back.

 

[pbethel]

In the early 2000's it was woe is me the grid is failing. That was soon after the A new Ice Age is coming.
Now it is CO2 is bad even though 99% of the warming effect has taken place by 150 ppm and plants won't hardly grow under that level.
We must shift to renewable electricity. It will be easy. It will actually create more jobs and stimulate the economy and cost you and I nothing.
That's the narrative. The manufacturers are being forced to play along.
My question.... Are we being set up by who knows who for the New World Order?
Or, more likely, are we just a huge reality TV show for an advanced alien species?

 

[subquark]

I agree Benny. Like you I've tried all the Big 3 and a few others and have primarily owned Fords most of my life. Almost a dozen F150's which never had any recalls or were ever in the shop except for regular maintenance. Even my '19 Ranger was great sans the HVAC box but even that didn't really bother me because living here it's a 5 minute (twice a year) dyi fix. I'll admit I was scared to get another Ranger and if the ZR2 was on lots I probably would've given those a hard look. So far I'm more than happy with MP2 and the transmission shift WAY better stock than MP1 ever did and I have almost 7,000 miles on it now.

Sadly everything is driven even more now by profits and the shareholders demand higher returns now more than ever. Since Covid the whole world's been upside down and they (large & small companies) now get away with giving us sup par products. They use inflation to keep jacking up their prices and supply chain issues to keep building junk! Sorry but if that's really the case stop trying to build so many vehicles that you know you can not produce and produce efficiently. What ever happened to "don't bite off more than you can chew"? It use to be the business model to follow so you wouldn't piss off your customer base taking on to much work that you knew you couldn't do. Here's hoping your Bronco, my Tremor and everyone else's trucks hold up well and Ford gets their sh!yt together soon especially with the new 6G.

A ZR2?!?

Yuck, just get a TESLER SIBER TRUCK. =p

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