One Piece Driveshaft

[D Fresh]

I was going to mention maintenance, but thought it wasn't a big enough concern. After all, every home mechanic on here is amazing by their own accord so it shouldn't be failing because they failed to grease a fitting.

You're in a thread talking about driveshafts on a RWD platform. And you don't think maintenance has anything to do with failure rate?

You of all people should know that failure rate of any mechanical device is almost directly proportional to preventative maintenance.

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[JohnnyO]

I really should just walk away from this conversation at some point but here's some insight as to why shafts fail, as someone who has been a part of the industry for 23 years.

Don't walk away. We appreciate your insight although I realize most of us have jobs to do and can't spend all day on message boards. And don't stop making Ranger driveshafts until I can save up to get one.
I don't have a stop/start shudder but I do get vibration sometimes at highway speeds. Haven't been able to narrow down the cause yet. I'm leaning toward my new tires not balancing well, had them rebalanced twice now. I'm thinking tires, road surface, rear shocks related to road surface, or driveshaft.

 

[CO2Ranger]

Pulled out the cord and replaced with some vacuum hose that i split and worked over the little nubs on the inside , i would guess that if the factory is 0 (1 to 10) my original cord made it a 9.5 , I'd say now I'm at a 5 or 6 and ready to test ...

Is that your stiffness scale you're referring to?

 

[NotBudule]

Is that your stiffness scale you're referring to?

Yes , kinda , 0 being nothing crammed in there and 10 being an electric cord crammed in there, the 10 scares me a little taking ALL the play out , I plan on backing it back down until I start to feel the shudder again , not very scientific but so far effective...

 

[TJC]

I found the details of the failed driveshaft previously pictured and updated my comment to include a picture of the vehicle, and the official accident report with photos. Worth the quick read. FWIW, it was a 2 piece cardan coupled u-joint in the driveshaft that failed. The part had a 50K mile life cycle but the information concerning the replacement cycle was never communicated to the local service centers. The vehicle had ~77K miles on it (the driveshaft had been replaced in a recall).
It was the front driveshaft (driving the front axle) that failed.

And to be clear, the Ranger 2 piece driveshaft does not use the same style joint that failed. And neither does the Tom Wood's Ranger solid driveshaft.

https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/one-piece-driveshaft.21381/page-20#post-490535

- T

 

[Jason B]

And one last data point. My 2005 Ford Ranger is scheduled for its 3rd recall for the same airbag! I no longer believe Ford gets it right the 1st time, or 2nd time... or..... seems to be the same unsafe debris issue.

-T

It case you didn't know, Ford doesn't make air bags, or drive shafts.

You're in a thread talking about driveshafts on a RWD platform. And you don't think maintenance has anything to do with failure rate?

You of all people should know that failure rate of any mechanical device is almost directly proportional to preventative maintenance.

Is there PM on our drive shaft? Most vehicles I've driven have 'permanently lubricated' joints with no way to give them a squirt. I think it's time I crawl under my truck and get familiar with the underside.

 

[Jason B]

I'm not one to say something like "Don't you know who I am?! I'm an expert and I know everything, listen to what I say!" but also, yeah, I'm sort of an expert. Our company name may be new to the Ford Ranger world but if you look around in the Jeep and 4X4 world I think you'll find that we are generally recognized as one of, if not the, premier sources.



Plans may change. I talked to a guy a couple days ago about this, who said he really wants to get a shaft to fix his ####ing truck. It seems like the Tremors are also susceptible to severe drive shaft shudders. But I told him, and I'll tell you, that there is still a lot of skepticism amongst the standard Ranger owners as to whether or not we know what we're doing and are able to build something that will work so it's gotta be one new product project at a time. The Tremor will take even more R & D and will require us to develop more complicated (expensive) parts (some sort of adapter for the pinion flange). So until this whole standard Ranger thing is tried and true to a point where everyone can accept the 1-peice as the best solution I'm not going to put any more time or money into developing a Tremor shaft. We'll just have to see how the Ranger thing plays out. Then, in the future, we may come out with something for the Tremor. Frankly though, as much as a pain in the butt this Ranger thing has been, I'm hesitant to wade much further into the Ford shaky shaft waters.



This shouldn't actually matter. The bearing mount is not rotating so if it is off-center by a little bit one way or the other all that means is that the position of the bearing is in a slightly different spot that it would otherwise be. Think of raising or dropping the carrier bearing mounting bracket a quarter inch, that would have the same effect on the drive shaft operation (little to none) as casting the support bushing a little wonky.


I don't know why I'm so emotionally invested in exploring all the possible avenues in fixing this problem as I am, but I am. I really want to see what happens with a cast urethane bushing. Because everyone seems too scared to pour urethane directly into their bushing, even though I offered to replace the stock shaft for free if it doesn't work, I'm going to get some 2-part urethane mix and experiment with making a mold then casting some removeable urethane inserts. Hey, maybe I can start a side business selling bushing dampeners! haha. I'll let you guys know how it goes and see if anyone wants some free samples.

#1 I didn't know who you were, because prior to this problem with the Ranger, I never gave drive shafts any thought. But reading all your valuable input I can clearly see that you know what you are doing. I apologize if I said anything to denigrate your company.

#2 Plans are changing. The 2024 Ranger will be out soon. I wonder if it will have the same driveline as Gen5?

#3 From reading all your insights and input into this topic, my guess is that you like to see things through and like challenges. If you did have a bushing alternative for sale, I would definitely try that route before buying a new DS.

 

[TJC]

It case you didn't know, Ford doesn't make air bags, or drive shafts.

Very few corporations are fully vertical anymore.

But Ford sources them, and should test to insure quality. Ford used to advertise heavily that "Quality is Job One!"

Our supply chain in IBM did just that on every component sourced that went into a PC or laptop. If quality dropped, the source was dropped. We caught sources on several occasions slipping the standards, and they were quite clever at it.

We would give them a success rate, and they would meet, but not exceed it, to maximize their profit. They would slip in defective parts right to the limit. We caught on quickly and closed that loophole.

Even today, Thinkpad laptops are known to be bullet proof. I have several that are 10+ years old and still running strong, happily running the latest Linux Mint Operating System(v21).

-T

 

[Shawn at Tom Wood's]

Let's talk more about drive shaft failures.

I already explained it, what types of failures are most common, but lets back that up with some evidence so that you all don't have to rely on my word. Trust but verify, remember? Take a look at a couple of google image searches for examples of different types of failures.

1. Driveshaft critical speed failure. Almost every result is a chart, diagram, or engineering drawing. Academic theory, not real life results.
2. Driveshaft carrier bearing failure. Now we're seeing some real life examples.
3. Driveshaft u joint failure. Again, lots of results with real life examples.

Just based on the evidence in the links above, try and forget everything discussed up to this point, looking at the demonstrable examples of drive shaft failures, what type of failure are you most afraid of? Driveshaft failures are scary and potentially dangerous, yes. But we need to be more careful and clear on what examples we are using to support specific claims or theories.

Because the firetruck shaft in the previous picture/post was a front drive shaft, anyone want to know what you've got in the front of your truck? It uses what we call Rzeppa CVs at each end. A word of caution to anyone who wants to lift their Ranger, this is what can happen to those Rzeppa CVs. The video in that link was not made by us or with our involvement in anyway. Just a Jeep guy who bought a couple of shafts from us to replace the shafts in a lifted Jeep. This is a super common problem with lifted Jeeps, from 2007 on, and is one of if not the most common applications for which we build drive shafts.

 

[NotBudule]

Just got home from work , the"#6" carrier bearing shim (split vacuum hose ) preformed better than the "#10" shim (electric cord) , the #10 (solid mount ) had some issues coming DOWN the hill from work with a little engine breaking going on , #6 did not , good to and from ...im going to pull #6 back out as i stopped and got some smaller hose to try go down in size till the shudder comes back ...

 

[Shawn at Tom Wood's]

As a side note to the post above and the google searches: If you do a non-image search for "driveshaft carrier bearing failure" the top result is this https://vehiclefreak.com/10-bad-carrier-bearing-symptoms-causes-fixes/. This article is total baloney. They even say that a check engine light could be due to the sensors that monitor your carrier bearing! Anyone want to check and see if you've got a sensor on your carrier bearing?! You don't. I've never seen that and never heard of it, I don't even know what a sensor could possibly be monitoring, rubber deterioration? Carrier bearing sensors, I think those are on the shelf at O'Reilly right next to the blinker fluid. Difficulty steering, uneven tire wear? ? How are these things possibly a symptom of a bad carrier bearing?!! The article in the link above was written by a company focused on one thing and one thing only, getting google ranking and clicks. For those of you who don't know, this is what's called SEO or Search Engine Optimization. A couple years back I gave an SEO company a try, hired them to do some SEO work on our website. One of the biggest components to this was writing "tech articles". I told them upfront. "Make sure you consult me on the tech info so I can make sure the information presented is accurate." They told me that they are very good at researching topics and getting accurate information. I said "Okay, sure, but still, you have free access to an expert in the field, use me as a resource." Surprise, they didn't they just wrote a bunch of bogus info and even used a picture of an axle shaft on the page instead of a drive shaft. All the syntax was weird too. I was like, "Why are you guys using such strange language and syntax? And why won't you have the tech writer talk to me directly on this?". Then I looked at the user login info on our website and all the SEO company's logins were from Dehli, India. The company was based out of Arizona. They were farming the work out to people who know nothing about the topic they are presenting and who don't even speak english as a first language. They have one focus and one focus alone, to increase website traffic. I fired that company and re-wrote the tech article myself. That Vehicle Freak website above exists to get website traffic and to sell advertising. They don't care if you actually learn anything while you are there. Nor do they care if the information is correct or, in the case of the article above, wildly inaccurate. Comically inaccurate. Just a warning and some insider industry knowledge I wanted to share with you all. Not only is not everything you read true, but some things, despite being the #1 google search result, are incredibly inaccurate and misleading.

 

[TJC]

Just got home from work , the"#6" carrier bearing shim (split vacuum hose ) preformed better than the "#10" shim (electric cord) , the #10 (solid mount ) had some issues coming DOWN the hill from work with a little engine breaking going on , #6 did not , good to and from ...im going to pull #6 back out as i stopped and got some smaller hose to try go down in size till the shudder comes back ...

Impressive work and results!

 

[TJC]

Just got home from work ,mostly uphill on the way TO work , mostly downhill on the way home , I think I feel a little something at certain speeds engine braking that I didn't before , maybe ... not sure , maybe need some flex after all , I'm going to split the difference and recheck...

That shake on deceleration is what my 2005 Ranger suffered from and it was driveshaft related. Installed a new one and it cured the symptoms. It was a Dorman Aluminum shaft that closely matched the original.

 

[NotBudule]

My very non scientific "cram stuff in there till it stops" carrier bearing experiment seems to indicate that for ME , and MY TRUCK ONLY , that about 50% less flex than factory is the sweet spot , before when I had it solid , downhill had issues that I didn't notice before , I softened it up and all seems good now , as an added bonus, and I just may have jinxed it , my stoplight "bump " , which I assumed was the slip joint, seems to have disappeared since I started messing with it , not sure why on that but I'll take it , again , non scientific, unloaded truck , not pulling anything, maybe it will be terrible under those circumstances, maybe my actual carrier bearing will go bad now and start screaming, no idea ...

@Shawn at Tom Wood's
Do you know of something that could be mixed and poured in there that would still have some flex to it?
Or maybe if too stiff a series of holes could be drilled around it to give more flex ? I can't imagine anything I cram in there will stay long term , the electric cord was wiggling out a little with only about 20 miles on it , I assume the hose I have in there now will also ...

 

[myothercarizahearse]

Do you know of something that could be mixed and poured in there that would still have some flex to it?

liquid latex?

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