Rivian or Ranger dilemma

[Motorpsychology]

In GM's case, it was deserved. Their cars were cheaply made and nowhere near as reliable as the Japanese brands back in those days. The 1980's and well into the 2000's is where Japan, Inc. build a reputation for itself here in the US. And they deserve it. They gave us quality cars and still do. The most reliable brands in 2021 is dominated by Japanese cars. Mazda, Lexus, Toyota round out the top three. Ok Buick is #4 beating out Honda in 5th place. But look at historical records, Lexus/Toyota always in top spot. And yes not all Toyota's are built in Japan, many are built in the US. Nationality has nothing to do with it. Only Corporate culture. GM culture and Ford as well isn't known for having this culture and determination to provide quality and reliability until only the last 15 years. Prior to that, they banked on Americans buying American cars to sell. GM was the worst offender.

New United Motor Manufacturing Inc was a joint venture with Toyota and General Motors. GM wanted to learn about Japanese production and logistics practices for potential implementation at the Saturn plant first, then elsewhere. Meanwhile, Toyota needed to know if it would be possible to build a compact car (Corolla) profitably in the US. The Prizm was essentially a Corolla with a Geo badge (later Chevrolet), having practically nothing in common with other GM models. Most of the country new little about the joint venture, and that the cars were nearly isdentical under the skin. Perception became reality: " Oh, GM. Must be junk."
The Pontiac Vibe did better as people became more aware that it was a Toyota Matrix underneath.

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[OCL]

New United Motor Manufacturing Inc was a joint venture with Toyota and General Motors. GM wanted to learn about Japanese production and logistics practices for potential implementation at the Saturn plant first, then elsewhere. Meanwhile, Toyota needed to know if it would be possible to build a compact car (Corolla) profitably in the US. The Prizm was essentially a Corolla with a Geo badge (later Chevrolet), having practically nothing in common with other GM models. Most of the country new little about the joint venture, and that the cars were nearly isdentical under the skin. Perception became reality: " Oh, GM. Must be junk."
The Pontiac Vibe did better as people became more aware that it was a Toyota Matrix underneath.

GM learned nothing because their Saturns had the worst reliability on record. I owned two. Cheap parts. Build quality was fine. But GM used parts that had a high failure rate. Things like Water pumps, transmission pumps, sensors, heater cores, gaskets, would fail early. I had turn signals fail in under 50k miles. Water pump failed twice in that time period. The Body Control Unit failed also with that time period, and so did the power steering rack. Power window motors....etc., etc., This was 2000-2001 model years. We also owned a 2006 Cadillac DTS, the one with the Northstar V8. Great powertrain & chassis. Build quality was high. But motor had piston slap and burned oil. Water pump failed within 50k miles. Transmission pump something failed too and puked fluid all over our garage. Thank god for Extended warranties! There was a joke in the Cadillac forum: "Which check engine light is on in your Caddy!"

Having said that my 2016 GMC Sierra 1500 with the 5.3 V8 and 6-speed automatic was stone ax reliable. Nothing broke on it despite the truck being an ex-Uhaul rental that got beaten to death. So GM has improved to a degree. But the Sierra trucks also had a reputation for vibrating driveshafts and oil burning with their early 5.3's when they first used cylinder deactivation.

 

[landiscarrier]

The average american drives 39 miles a day. using a standard 120 outlet can yield up to 40 miles charge in 8 hours while you sleep. Every home I've lived in has had a 240v dryer outlet. If a home has this, they can definitely support EV charging.

Also technically the best charging for batteries is slower charging and keeping the battery around 50% when not needed. Batteries degrade when charged fast, exposed to extreme hot/cold and left at 100% or 0% for long periods.

Appreciate your thought process but that’s inaccurate. I sell lithium ion batteries for a living. They must be charged at the correct rate. Slow is not the correct way to charge a Lithium battery of this size. Most new/modern EV’s are equipped with a high-frequency opportunity/fast charger that communicates with the battery via CAN bus protocol that charges the battery specifically to its needs at that time. They are not lead acid batteries.​

 

[DukeCanBuildit]

I'm jealous of his "room to spare"!

I‘m with you on that one Chris! Keep your eye on the level hanging from the shelving.

 

[Motorpsychology]

GM learned nothing because their Saturns had the worst reliability on record. I owned two. Cheap parts. Build quality was fine. But GM used parts that had a high failure rate. Things like Water pumps, transmission pumps, sensors, heater cores, gaskets, would fail early. I had turn signals fail in under 50k miles. Water pump failed twice in that time period. The Body Control Unit failed also with that time period, and so did the power steering rack. Power window motors....etc., etc., This was 2000-2001 model years. We also owned a 2006 Cadillac DTS, the one with the Northstar V8. Great powertrain & chassis. Build quality was high. But motor had piston slap and burned oil. Water pump failed within 50k miles. Transmission pump something failed too and puked fluid all over our garage. Thank god for Extended warranties! There was a joke in the Cadillac forum: "Which check engine light is on in your Caddy!"

Having said that my 2016 GMC Sierra 1500 with the 5.3 V8 and 6-speed automatic was stone ax reliable. Nothing broke on it despite the truck being an ex-Uhaul rental that got beaten to death. So GM has improved to a degree. But the Sierra trucks also had a reputation for vibrating driveshafts and oil burning with their early 5.3's when they first used cylinder deactivation.

One last hijack of this thread and I'll rest:
My original intent was to show that perception can equal reality. The Geo Prizm-cum-Chevrolet Prizm & Toyota Corrolla were essentially the same car mechanically, built on the same line by the same people, supervised to a great extent by Toyota. But the presence of GM badging made the car perceived to be inferior to the one with the Tri-Elipse badging.
I totally agree that GM was slow on the implementation of what NUMMI was supposed to be for; NIH-Not Invented Here was the mantra at GM back then, which perpetuated the stereotype, arguably undeserved in the Prizm's case.

 

[OCL]

My original intent was to show that perception can equal reality.

I'm with you and totally agree with you. I was just venting against GM. I've been a loyal GM customer for years. I like all brands to be honest (this is why I have Fords too and have owned Japanese cars and SUV's in the past). My past GM cars were not as reliable as they aged. 5 years and things started to fail. Having said all that, I also currently own two relatively recent GM cars and they're both Buicks. 2012 Lacrosse and 2012 Regal Turbo. 9 years old. Exceptionally reliable! The Regal's VVT solenoid failed at 40k miles, replaced very easily for $50. Been solid since then. The Lacrosse water pump gasket failed at 30k, replaced under warranty. Nothing else has gone wrong. We keep waiting and hoping for the best and so far we've been happily surprised!

 

[Jrel209]

There is someone who lives in my neighborhood w/ a Rivian, saw them yesterday coming home. Pulled up to the side to ask him how the truck was and tell him it looked good etc etc etc. He works at Rivian so has apparently had it for a couple months already, but he said something that made me roll my eyes. He said w/out a doubt, "its the best truck EVER BUILT!" I mean thats cool, i'd be stoked w/ the first EV truck as well, but felt that statement was pretty damn premature. I have a feeling the Rivian crowd will be just as bad as the original Suburu WRX STi crew when they finally came to the USA, just a bunch of snobsters. With that said, I would like to drive one around and test it out though.

 

[slowmachine]

There is someone who lives in my neighborhood w/ a Rivian, saw them yesterday coming home. Pulled up to the side to ask him how the truck was and tell him it looked good etc etc etc. He works at Rivian so has apparently had it for a couple months already, but he said something that made me roll my eyes. He said w/out a doubt, "its the best truck EVER BUILT!" I mean thats cool, i'd be stoked w/ the first EV truck as well, but felt that statement was pretty damn premature. I have a feeling the Rivian crowd will be just as bad as the original Suburu WRX STi crew when they finally came to the USA, just a bunch of snobsters. With that said, I would like to drive one around and test it out though.

People are very enthusiastic to be part of a paradigm-changing event. There are huge numbers of Tesla owners that simply ignore the spotty build quality, extremely poor customer service, and lack of replacement parts. I wouldn’t expect early Rivian owners, especially employees, to be anything less than rabid fans. Time will tell…

 

[pbethel]

In Kingman AZ yesterday.
At first I thought there must be some special event going on with about twenty Teslas parked nose to tail down the street.
But then I realized they were lined up waiting their turn at the charging station. It was full.
At least during the busy holiday season, traveling in a Tesla has some drawbacks.

 

[Jason B]

After reading about and seeing that guy blow up his Tesla because they wanted $20K to replace the battery, EV's are a no go for me for the time being. Sure, battery tech has improved it the last 10 years, but I'll wait 10 more and see what happens.

 

[slowmachine]

After reading about and seeing that guy blow up his Tesla because they wanted $20K to replace the battery, EV's are a no go for me for the time being. Sure, battery tech has improved it the last 10 years, but I'll wait 10 more and see what happens.

The guy bought a used luxury sedan (fastest depreciation of all car classes)
from the 1st year of production (never the best quality/reliability)
with no warranty (too bad for him, but maybe not the best way to save money)

This is no different from buying a used high-end BMW or Mercedes, ten years old, from a Craigslist or eBay ad. As-is, no warranty stated or implied. The buyer assumes the risk. The cost to replace the Tesla battery is probably not terribly higher than a factory-remanufactured German V8 long block. The guy made some money by selling parts from the car, and some more by putting the video on YouTube.

I see nothing here that says “don’t buy an electric car.” I do see that there is an advantage to buying the used car directly from Tesla, with a warranty.

 

[Motorpsychology]

The guy bought a used luxury sedan (fastest depreciation of all car classes)
from the 1st year of production (never the best quality/reliability)
with no warranty (too bad for him, but maybe not the best way to save money)

This is no different from buying a used high-end BMW or Mercedes, ten years old, from a Craigslist or eBay ad. As-is, no warranty stated or implied. The buyer assumes the risk. The cost to replace the Tesla battery is probably not terribly higher than a factory-remanufactured German V8 long block. The guy made some money by selling parts from the car, and some more by putting the video on YouTube.

I see nothing here that says “don’t buy an electric car.” I do see that there is an advantage to buying the used car directly from Tesla, with a warranty.

Much the same for the guy that destroyed the front diff on his 2021 Bronco. The YouTube video went viral, and the revenue to his channel no doubt more than offset the expense of repairs.

Pretty much the same for most of the "Hold my beer and watch this" type videos

 

[OCL]

My neighbor's son in law works for Rivian, he is based in the Bay Area of California. This guy is the most arrogant SOB I have ever met. He thinks (no surprise) the Rivian is the second coming. Asks me why I didn't get an electric truck because it's so much better.

Tell you what Junior: let's drive to the desert. Let's see how long your Rivian will last on any long distance drive. 300 mile range under ideal conditions, my guess is cruising at 75 mph. Don't know how he'd return home without finding and detouring for a Tesla Supercharger station.

That's not very practical until they have charging stations more widely available. You're basically going to be constantly watching that range meter and planning your long trips based on charging station availability.

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