Turn signal sounds like door ajar alert

THLONE

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What dealer are you at? Not in Tucson I hope.
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P. A. Schilke

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What dealer are you at? Not in Tucson I hope.
Yep...not a fan of Jim Click for sure....

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Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
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P. A. Schilke

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Is there any other options? Theres so much technology and advancement a technician would need to be in training half a year every year to keep up. Technology changes so fast. We are no longer at the 1973 gremlin stage where theres a wire bundle of 6 wires that runs to the back of the car. And a few solenoids and relays to make it all work.
Hi Jeff.

Your comments mirror when we went away from Carburetors to Fuel Injection or from Fuel Injection to EcoBoost. There are still diagnostics. They are just different and with the time of development steaming by me, I am no means up on the latest, but diagnostics are still front and center. They may be different but they are still there for those who are willing to learn and assimilate the info and not just change parts. I still diagnose my wife's computer when it (or she) goofs up...I just do not replace it with a new one...Ditto for the Cell phone...

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
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RedlandRanger

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But to fix the computer, you're likely changing a part. Not fixing the part internally. A power supply, a motherboard, a drive...You need an electronics degree to do that detailed work but then it becomes a cost factor .
The method of diagnostics has changed. Computers are a big part of everything now. How you interpret the info it gives you determines what direction you take.
My helicopter background is no different. When I started 30+ years ago is alot different than now. A laptop is in your toolbox as much as a set of screwdrivers
But the computer has a hard time knowing a plug isn't seated properly. Things like that. It is true computers can do a lot, but the info they provide is only as good as the info they get.

True diagnostics is as much an art as a science. There are still many many things that you cant get from a computer.

Some of the things Phil has posted here are examples of doing real diagnostics. The purpose is to gain information to make an informed decision on where the problem is, not just solely rely on the computers to tell you which part to replace.

It is absolutely a dying skill
 


RedlandRanger

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But in this case, experience is a huge wall for these guys beyond the computers help.
How many of these techs have been working on a ranger for any length of time ?
If a connector isnt seated properly then the component its attached to wont work. That will become obvious no matter how its diagnosed.
That is why experience matters, no matter what some people think. Experience will help with this. Like I said, it is as much an art as a science, especially when you get to the tougher issues.

And a bad connection won't necessarily cause a component to not work. It can cause intermittent failure which is even worse and harder to diagnose.

We may just have to agree to disagree, but I know people who amaze me at how they can diagnose something they really have no idea about - following a logical series of steps to trace down the root cause of an issue. They may not understand the details of WHY it is happening, but they are able to trace down the root cause using logic and a series of carefully designed tests.
 
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Kataphrakt

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Some of the things Phil has posted here are examples of doing real diagnostics. The purpose is to gain information to make an informed decision on where the problem is, not just solely rely on the computers to tell you which part to replace.

It is absolutely a dying skill
you'd be surprised how much this is true even in the engineering community. through college few of my peers showed any ability to attempt troubleshooting. They would try random things without attempting to isolate each problem first.
 

P. A. Schilke

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That is why experience matters, no matter what some people think. Experience will help with this. Like I said, it is as much an art as a science, especially when you get to the tougher issues.

And a bad connection won't necessarily cause a component to not work. It can cause intermittent failure which is even worse and harder to diagnose.

We may just have to agree to disagree, but I know people who amaze me at how they can diagnose something they really have no idea about - following a logical series of steps to trace down the root cause of an issue. They may not understand the details of WHY it is happening, but they are able to trace down the root cause using logic and a series of carefully designed tests.
Hi Rob,

We have already seen several instances of intermittent problems traced back to improperly seated electrical connectors on this forum.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
 

RedlandRanger

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Hi Rob,

We have already seen several instances of intermittent problems traced back to improperly seated electrical connectors on this forum.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
My point exactly.... :)
 

P. A. Schilke

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you'd be surprised how much this is true even in the engineering community. through college few of my peers showed any ability to attempt troubleshooting. They would try random things without attempting to isolate each problem first.
Hi Tim,

Agree...Colleges do not teach diagnostic skills any more. I was an auto mechanic while going through Engineering Collage which is where I learned my diagnostic skills. Not taught in College. Even when I got my Masters degree, no hint of diagnostic taught.

When I headed up Chassis CAE, almost 100% of my engineers knew where to put the gas in the car and that Jiffy Lube took care of this stuff called engine oil. For example, my steering column engineer, PhD Dr. Z. C. had no idea of what device attached to the end of the column. ie. the intermediate shaft and then the steering rack.... I fixed that in a real hurry by having them have to follow lab fatigue testing and they had to help the test engineers set up the test fixtures. Really helped on more exact analysis too as the engineers understood more clearly how to define boundary conditions. I even brought my race car into work for them to look at and ask questions...understanding vehicle systems is key to good analysis.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
 

RedlandRanger

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you'd be surprised how much this is true even in the engineering community. through college few of my peers showed any ability to attempt troubleshooting. They would try random things without attempting to isolate each problem first.
That is scary - that engineering students can't do logical thinking to isolate issues for troubleshooting. That is a complete failure of the educational system, IMO. Of ANYONE I would expect potential engineers to be able to do this. Hopefully not many of those students went on to become actual engineers.

I do software for a living, but I try and use engineering concepts in my work - I took several Software Engineering masters level courses to learn more about it, but far too few software developers have that kind of mindset unfortunately.
 

Kataphrakt

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Hi Tim,

Agree...Colleges do not teach diagnostic skills any more. I was an auto mechanic while going through Engineering Collage which is where I learned my diagnostic skills. Not taught in College. Even when I got my Masters degree, no hint of diagnostic taught.
I am fresh out of college, but I learned the troubleshooting skills i have mainly from FIRST robotics where we would have things go wrong, and there sure as heck was no manual for the robot we just built! Also a lot of debugging skills from learning programming, where it's actually easy to segregate a portion of code and see if that is testing as it should.

I would like to see engineering schools move towards more project work rather than the extensive theoretical they have. A project is a great place for unpredictable things to happen, and it's only through dealing with those unexpected issues that you can really grown in design and troubleshooting.

For example, my steering column engineer, PhD Dr. Z. C. had no idea of what device attached to the end of the column. ie. the intermediate shaft and then the steering rack.... I fixed that in a real hurry by having them have to follow lab fatigue testing and they had to help the test engineers set up the test fixtures.
I may not particularly know what most of the parts in an engine do practically, but I know well-enough how to start looking it up if i needed to! At the place I work (Making outside mirrors, inside mirrors, and door handles for cars) the biggest responsibility of new intern/coop students is benchmarking competitor's parts. This is an invaluable task to give to interns as it helps us quickly learn the norm of the industry.

Hopefully not many of those students went on to become actual engineers.
Unfortunately for us they just got their diplomas... The real test will be if they can get a decent job, as they are often the students who do not get hired on by the company they interned at.
 
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Dealership says they were able to condemn the "Smart Data Link Module" as malfunctioning. They're on back order at least a week though. The girl working my case from Ford is trying to get one pulled and overnighted. More wait and see, oh joy.
 

uthunter

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Dealership says they were able to condemn the "Smart Data Link Module" as malfunctioning. They're on back order at least a week though. The girl working my case from Ford is trying to get one pulled and overnighted. More wait and see, oh joy.
Make sure Ford takes care of you. When I got the distinction of having the first Ranger to get towed to the shop, they had to wait for a part so I was out the truck for an extended period. I raised a stink and Ford comped me an Extended Service Plan... FYI.
 
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Recoil1

Recoil1

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Day 27, Smart Data Link Module replaced, issues still not resolved. I cannot understand why they don't have an engineer out to look at this thing yet.
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