Think I Threw a Rod....

[Leftcoast]

As far as grasping the physics involved in riding a motorcycle, I would have to ask what are your qualifications and objectively quantifiable riding skill level? Based upon your choice of an R3, I think I already know the answer. In my case, my qualifications would include things like my background as an expert-licensed motorcycle road racer, motorcycle road racing instructor, motorcycle road racing race official, and motorcycle road racing endurance crew chief. My objectively quantifiable riding skill level, is about 6 seconds off the absolute lap record of my home track, and during track days, I have turned expert-level lap times with my wife on the back. That's good enough for a major motorcycle manufacturer to recruit me as a rider and model for their advertising campaigns, at the rate of $1,000 an hour.



No. That's how cars work. Cars are long, low, heavy, with brakes that are very small for their weight, and rock-hard tires intended to last tens of thousands of miles. The maximum braking abilities of cars, is limited by traction, until the brakes overheat, at which point they are then limited by braking power. Motorcycles are short, tall, light, with massive brakes, and soft sticky tires that don't last very long. Unless there is something wrong with your motorcycle, your maximum braking on pavement will not be limited by braking power or by front tire traction. The only braking limitation remaining at that point, is weight transfer.

Have you ever wondered why competent road motorcycles typically have two full-floating cross-drilled front brake discs about 300mm or so in diameter, two large radial-mount brake calipers with 8 to 12 front brake caliper pistons, a radial front brake master cylinder, and a single small non-floating rear disc with 1 or 2 brake caliper pistons in the back? That should be a clue to you.



Your first problem there, is that although the rear wheel can stabilize the motorcycle because it's locked in plane with almost the entire motorcycle, the front wheel cannot, because there's a hinge in between the front wheel and all that mass- the steering head.

And your second problem, is that when kids on 20" bikes lock up the rear wheel at 15 mph, they instantly have to balance the bicycle with steering and body english, which is easy because they weigh several times what their bicycle weighs. It's not the spinning front wheel keeping it up. If you remove the steering and body english, the bicycle will fall down when you lock up the rear tire. Body english alone, is not enough for you to be able to keep your 375-pound R3 upright with the rear wheel locked, because it outweighs you by a substantial margin. In theory, you MIGHT be able to keep it upright by steering alone, but in actual practice just about all motorcyclists fall down. Either way, the spinning front wheel will not be contributing to your endeavor. If/when the rear-end steps out enough to pull your foot off the rear brake, you will then high-side. As a police officer, I have seen this to be a VERY common cause of completely avoidable fatal motorcycle crashes.

There is an excellent book on this subject, that I highly recommend- "A Twist Of The Wrist 2" by Keith Code.

IIRC one of the MSF field exercises was to intentionally lock the rear tire and keep it locked until stopped. I don't remember anybody dumping it in class. Now that was decades ago and I'm sure physics has changed.

Sponsored

 

[Obijack]

Lol you guys and all this wasted time trying to change the mind of a stranger on the Internet who happens to own the same model truck as you.

 

[Leftcoast]

Lol you guys and all this wasted time trying to change the mind of a stranger on the Internet who happens to own the same model truck as you.

Do you have a dog in this fight counselor?

 

[DHH]

I'm sorry, but the OP has lost all credibility with those pics. 2.5 months later and the only pics are from a borescope? He obviously hasn't even gone to see the motor, which is absolutely ridiculous.

If this episode did actually happened, which I am still doubting, the pics shown point more towards a broken valve than broken rod. The only itty bitty, teensy weensy, morsel of evidence given, leans towards detonation and broken valve. It's much more likely a "tuned" motor will detonate to that extent than a stock motor.
I have to side with Ford.

 

[FoD]

This thread is a "hot mess o' drift"...

Speaking of which...could you throw a rod?

 

[Sheepdog]

IIRC one of the MSF field exercises was to intentionally lock the rear tire and keep it locked until stopped. I don't remember anybody dumping it in class. Now that was decades ago and I'm sure physics has changed.

Are you saying the Rider Coaches had you do that during your BRC (Basic Rider Course)?

IF the MSF has a drill like that, it could only be a very low speed drill, and the ONLY reason for it would be to teach students that IF they screw up by locking up the rear wheel, NOT to let go of the rear brake while in motion, because at road speed, it would likely high-side them into the ER or the morgue.

Remember, the MSF BRC is where rider training STARTS, not where it ends. The MSF BRC does an EXCELLENT job at taking students who have never been on a motorcycle before, and qualifies them to operate a 12-horsepower mini-chopper with tube-type bias-ply tires and a drum brake activated by a metal rod, at pedestrian speeds in a parking lot. They teach counter-steering, and the SIPDE threat management system (sort of like a gunfighter's OODA-loop). Both of those things are great.

It is only the braking portion of the BRC that I take issue with, as improvements in modern motorcycle chassis, suspension, brakes, and ESPECIALLY tires, has simply passed their curriculum by.

I prefer that my students simply don't use the rear brake at all while in motion- it's simpler, easier, safer, and they will be able to shed velocity just as quickly.

 

[Sheepdog]

add a motorcross background to...

I've never met anyone who has any actual experience in motocross, that can't even spell it.

Inexperience is the biggest cause of dumping a bike. period.

No. Lack of skill, and attempting to operate a motorcycle beyond that lack of skill, is the primary cause of crashing. "Experience" is simply the passage of time, and has no correlation to skill level. Some people learn VERY fast. I earned my expert road racing license after my first weekend on track, and was instructing in our racing school a few months later.

while I appreciate guys with tons of track time, and track experience....not all of that is transferable to the street.
A guy who can turn blistering track times can just as easily find himself in a left turn scenario with no where to go on the street. You dont get left turners on tracks.

You get a lot of cars turning left into your path in "motorcross"?

...generally dont get gravel and sand in crazy spots on corners...

Interestingly enough, the rear tire generally runs through anything that the front tire runs through.

...you dont get the unexpected very often...

You've clearly never been on a race course before.

I dont care if you're a world series champion, world series champions dont survive any better than me on the street.
with track racing, you have the best of the best going for you at all times and that allows you to push it harder.

A race course is the ONLY place that it is safe for you to learn the limits of braking and/or turning, both of which are critical accident avoidance skills.

Motorcyclists don't rise to the occasion, they fall to their level of training. You're probably not gonna just spontaneously learn these skills in the last instant of your life.

I have some opinions on SD that I will keep to myself.

Instead of making passive-aggressive inuendos, why don't you just state your qualifications and state your case...

 

[Leftcoast]

I've never met anyone who has any actual experience in motocross, that can't even spell it.



No. Lack of skill, and attempting to operate a motorcycle beyond that lack of skill, is the primary cause of crashing. "Experience" is simply the passage of time, and has no correlation to skill level. Some people learn VERY fast. I earned my expert road racing license after my first weekend on track, and was instructing in our racing school a few months later.



You get a lot of cars turning left into your path in "motorcross"?



Interestingly enough, the rear tire generally runs through anything that the front tire runs through.



You've clearly never been on a race course before.



A race course is the ONLY place that it is safe for you to learn the limits of braking and/or turning, both of which are critical accident avoidance skills.

Motorcyclists don't rise to the occasion, they fall to their level of training. You're probably not gonna just spontaneously learn these skills in the last instant of your life.



Instead of making passive-aggressive inuendos, why don't you just state your qualifications and state your case...

I’m calling BS. Nobody gets their expert license in their first weekend of track riding from any reputable club. Are we talking Nintendo?

 

[Sheepdog]

So you can't spell motocross, but you can spell Nintendo...hmm...

What color do those number plates look like to you?

 

[Sheepdog]

FYI, motocross is an international motorsport that dates back over 100 years in Europe. It wasn't introduced into the U.S. until the late 1960s.

Since that time, a lot of Americans have claimed a "motocross background", when in reality they actually only fooled around on old dirt bikes in empty fields when they were kids, and never actually competed in any sanctioned motocross competitions...

 

[OFC Ranger]

I admit I have a "i love me room". Basically an office that has my accolades or news articles or other items regarding my life or family hanging on the wall or sitting on a shelf.

There is still a big difference between a "I love me room" and an office room where someone has solo pictures of themselves hanging on the wall which I have a sneaking suspicion some people here have.

 

[CB750F]

I'd like to see this get to 100 pages so ...

I have a friend that's a mechanic & races, he only races, never goes on the street, it's too dangerous.
Since no one is talking bike stories, here's one. Back in 1992 I decide to go tour Newfoundland, what an awesome rock! I was on my CB750F. Anyway here I am
going up the west part in extremely windy & wet weather. I'm on the left side of the
road, between the oil in the middle & the puddles of water in the tire tracks. I'm
cresting a hill & it's cut out, so kinda like a canyon about 100' wall on each side.
As I crest, the front wheel lifts off & by the time it hit the ground I'm halfway
on the oncoming lane. Thankfully, no oncoming vehicles. OH, my 750 has
a 3/4 Rickman fairing, somehow I think that helped push the bike.
I did come across a dead moose on the side of the Trans Canada. While
driving down the highway, which was a 2 lane, meeting, it had 3 feet of gravel
for the shoulder & the trees started... I remember thinking, holy crap, if a moose
decides to stick out it's head, I get decapitated!

 

[Clump]

Don't mean to further jack this already jacked thread, but I'm still stuck on " Harley-Davidsons are not competent road motorcycles. "

Millions of people with millions of miles would disagree.

 

[FoD]

Speaking of dampers...

 

[CB750F]

Don't mean to further jack this already jacked thread, but I'm still stuck on " Harley-Davidsons are not competent road motorcycles. "

Millions of people with millions of miles would disagree.

Well, I think my Harley is awesome when parked in front of the pub!

You should ask Sheepdog about a review of an FLH & an Aprilia on a track?

Sponsored