Take off vibration (video)

[P. A. Schilke]

Very interesting - never heard of this before. That video explained it well.

Thanks for posting it!

Believe the cause of this issue has been found. The drive shaft is out of phase, if you look at the rear section of the two piece driveshaft the u-joints at the rear end and carrier bearing are a few degrees off from one another.

I'll try to get pictures later but this video explains the science behind phasing:

Hi Klay,

Excellent video on phasing! Thanks for sharing!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

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[Sparky]

I haven't looked at my driveshaft - I also don't have any vibration issues. I also haven't altered the ride height of my truck and don't plan to as this also induces driveline issues.

But -- Ford isn't the only one who will slightly offset the u-joint alignment.

For those who have a Yamaha YXZ -- Your drivehsaft u-joint alignment is off by one spline on the slip yoke.

 

[commbubba19]

i wonder if the offset drive shaft splines may not have a block spline but a key spline that only allows it one way.

I still feel mine but it's not as bad as it was. It also dissipates as the day goes on and the drive train warms up.

 

[WLFPIR8]

There was another thread I found that has the install instructions from the Rough Country lift kit, and it looks like the shaft can ONLY be rotated at 90 degree increments. I'm waiting to see if anything comes of that and if someone tries it.

 

[shred5]

I have the vibration on take off as I have said in the other thread.
I saw that video on the other thread and thought maybe that is what is happening but that is how it is feels. Like something is shaking or out of sync.
My truck is not lifted and is stock..
The two truck I test drove did not seem to have this. I never test drove mine it came from from another dealers lot and it had it right away.
It seems to have got worse with summer and for sure more when the back is loaded.

 

[rdgallo]

Does anyone know if Ford is addressing this vibration/shudder issue behind the scene? Wasn't this Ranger being sold in Australia for a few years before being introduced into the U.S. market? If so, was this issue present in the Australian Rangers? I have to believe Ford is aware of the problem and surely will address it. I am not sure I would have purchased my Ranger had I known of this issue. I am trying to ignore it when I drive, but after 2000 miles, I am still aggravated by it.

 

[Porpoise Hork]

Does anyone know if Ford is addressing this vibration/shudder issue behind the scene? Wasn't this Ranger being sold in Australia for a few years before being introduced into the U.S. market? If so, was this issue present in the Australian Rangers? I have to believe Ford is aware of the problem and surely will address it. I am not sure I would have purchased my Ranger had I known of this issue. I am trying to ignore it when I drive, but after 2000 miles, I am still aggravated by it.

The only way to know is to check on any Australian based forums for the Ranger and see if they have reported the issue and if Ford has acknowledged it for them. If they have then it may only take a few registered complaints with Ford corporate. But that only after taking the trucks to the dealer and not having the issue resolved at the local level. If however there are not any reports of it from that market then we likely face an up-hill battle and a statistically large number of complaints to get Ford to acknowledge this and issue a TSB to repair\resolve it.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

The only way to know is to check on any Australian based forums for the Ranger and see if they have reported the issue and if Ford has acknowledged it for them. If they have then it may only take a few registered complaints with Ford corporate. But that only after taking the trucks to the dealer and not having the issue resolved at the local level. If however there are not any reports of it from that market then we likely face an up-hill battle and a statistically large number of complaints to get Ford to acknowledge this and issue a TSB to repair\resolve it.

Hi PH

I think that due to the 2.3L being North American only, the driveshafts are going to be unique to our 5G Rangers. It is likely that Engineering is aware that a small percentage of Rangers exhibit this concern but also likely Engineering has not spent time to develop a fix and generate an associated TSB. I have been unsuccessful in getting to anyone in Ford Truck familiar with the problem...most I get is this is an Aussie question to address as they did the engineering.....

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[rdgallo]

Hi PH

I think that due to the 2.3L being North American only, the driveshafts are going to be unique to our 5G Rangers. It is likely that Engineering is aware that a small percentage of Rangers exhibit this concern but also likely Engineering has not spent time to develop a fix and generate an associated TSB. I have been unsuccessful in getting to anyone in Ford Truck familiar with the problem...most I get is this is an Aussie question to address as they did the engineering.....

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Thanks for trying, Phil. Do you think it is only a small percentage that have this vibration? I thought that most had it. I wonder what is different in the trucks that don't have it vs those that do?
Do you think this will cause other driveline/seal/bearing issues in the future? The vibration bothers me, but I think I can eventually learn to ignore it. LOL.

 

[shred5]

Thanks for trying, Phil. Do you think it is only a small percentage that have this vibration? I thought that most had it. I wonder what is different in the trucks that don't have it vs those that do?
Do you think this will cause other driveline/seal/bearing issues in the future? The vibration bothers me, but I think I can eventually learn to ignore it. LOL.

When I did a test drive I did not feel it and I test drove 2 different Rangers but when mine came in it did.
Some have been told this is a characteristic of the truck which would mean they all do..

I do not feel it all the time on my truck it is only at take off and under certain acceleration.. I will say I do feel it more and more now tho. Is it getting worse, is it the warmer weather or is it just I feel it more now?

 

[Porpoise Hork]

Hi PH

I think that due to the 2.3L being North American only, the driveshafts are going to be unique to our 5G Rangers. It is likely that Engineering is aware that a small percentage of Rangers exhibit this concern but also likely Engineering has not spent time to develop a fix and generate an associated TSB. I have been unsuccessful in getting to anyone in Ford Truck familiar with the problem...most I get is this is an Aussie question to address as they did the engineering.....

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Thanks for trying. I wonder, even with different engines if Ford used the same drive-train components for the NA market as with the AU/EU market. If so then it's possible that this could be something as simple as incorrect installation at the factory seeing as third party companies like Rough Country specifically have instructions on re-clocking the shaft by 90 degrees. If this is an error in assembly and Ford NA is aware of it then they might issue the TSB. Now if none of the owners have reported it to Ford after the dealer failing to correct it then it is likely that the Ford will do anything about it.

Thanks for trying, Phil. Do you think it is only a small percentage that have this vibration? I thought that most had it. I wonder what is different in the trucks that don't have it vs those that do?
Do you think this will cause other driveline/seal/bearing issues in the future? The vibration bothers me, but I think I can eventually learn to ignore it. LOL.

While the vibration caused by the shaft being out of phase is most noticeably observed at low speed, it is still vibrating throughout the entire speed range of the truck. This will certainly cause issues over the life of the truck. Most notably with premature failure of the carrier bearing mount as the rubber ages and hardens over time. This vibration can also lead to secondary failure points in the U-Joints as well as transmission output shaft seal failure, and/or rear axle pinion bearing and/or seal failure. So it is a problem that needs to be addressed, either by Ford, or by taking the truck to an independent specialist to be diagnosed and fixed.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Thanks for trying. I wonder, even with different engines if Ford used the same drive-train components for the NA market as with the AU/EU market. If so then it's possible that this could be something as simple as incorrect installation at the factory seeing as third party companies like Rough Country specifically have instructions on re-clocking the shaft by 90 degrees. If this is an error in assembly and Ford NA is aware of it then they might issue the TSB. Now if none of the owners have reported it to Ford after the dealer failing to correct it then it is likely that the Ford will do anything about it.



While the vibration caused by the shaft being out of phase is most noticeably observed at low speed, it is still vibrating throughout the entire speed range of the truck. This will certainly cause issues over the life of the truck. Most notably with premature failure of the carrier bearing mount as the rubber ages and hardens over time. This vibration can also lead to secondary failure points in the U-Joints as well as transmission output shaft seal failure, and/or rear axle pinion bearing and/or seal failure. So it is a problem that needs to be addressed, either by Ford, or by taking the truck to an independent specialist to be diagnosed and fixed.

Hi PH and Ron,

I would not worry about durability issues for start up shudder, however driveline vibrations throughout the rev range of the engine, a different issue. As far as a percentage of vehicles that sudder, I would think it is quite small, but even all the Forum members represent just a small fraction of Ranger sales.... I know that my truck has no shudder at start up and several other forum members have also indicated no start up shudder. On my Ranger it is maybe because darling little wifelet calls me a numbass...??? I really do not have a feeling for percentage of Rangers that have this concern...certainly not 100%.

A bit of a back story....I was a young engineer on the F150 SuperCab launch. We had a two piece driveline in the supercabs. We were driving pre production vehicles and about 25% of them exhibited terrible start up shudder....It sent Dearborn Engineering in to full panic mode. So at the plant in desperation, we started creating a space to lower the center bearing. This fixed the problem units, but the the non problem units started exhibiting the problem. Talk about a dilemma! The top execs decided to start production and drive more units and assess and the larger sample size of some 500 trucks showed the problem to be in the 5% range and the shim corrected them, so there was an extended drive and repair of problem units. Then came the TSB and how to make a spacer that the dealership could contain on customer complaints. The plant drives then stopped. A frame mod fixed it permanently...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co.

 

[rdgallo]

I would think Ford would have someone monitoring a forum like this. I believe they monitored an F150 forum for awhile as whoever was monitoring it would offer to assist with getting problems resolved.

Hi PH and Ron,

I would not worry about durability issues for start up shudder, however driveline vibrations throughout the rev range of the engine, a different issue. As far as a percentage of vehicles that sudder, I would think it is quite small, but even all the Forum members represent just a small fraction of Ranger sales.... I know that my truck has no shudder at start up and several other forum members have also indicated no start up shudder. On my Ranger it is maybe because darling little wifelet calls me a numbass...??? I really do not have a feeling for percentage of Rangers that have this concern...certainly not 100%.

A bit of a back story....I was a young engineer on the F150 SuperCab launch. We had a two piece driveline in the supercabs. We were driving pre production vehicles and about 25% of them exhibited terrible start up shudder....It sent Dearborn Engineering in to full panic mode. So at the plant in desperation, we started creating a space to lower the center bearing. This fixed the problem units, but the the non problem units started exhibiting the problem. Talk about a dilemma! The top execs decided to start production and drive more units and assess and the larger sample size of some 500 trucks showed the problem to be in the 5% range and the shim corrected them, so there was an extended drive and repair of problem units. Then came the TSB and how to make a spacer that the dealership could contain on customer complaints. The plant drives then stopped. A frame mod fixed it permanently...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co.

Thanks for the info, Phil.

 

[Porpoise Hork]

@P. A. Schilke Thank you for posting that up. I find it interesting how the engineering process evolves over time. It definitely points towards Ford eventually sorting it out.

I agree that there's probably a very small percentage experiencing the shaft vibration at speed and that's where long term reliability issues can possibly arise.

While mine does not vibrate at speed it does shudder off the line. It's not what I would call bad enough to make me want to take it in for just that. It does give me a small bit of concern that the potential for premature failure of the carrier bearing mount is higher than it would be if there is not any shudder. This would of course be after several years of city driving wearing on the rubber in the bearing mount getting jostled around.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

@P. A. Schilke Thank you for posting that up. I find it interesting how the engineering process evolves over time. It definitely points towards Ford eventually sorting it out.

I agree that there's probably a very small percentage experiencing the shaft vibration at speed and that's where long term reliability issues can possibly arise.

While mine does not vibrate at speed it does shudder off the line. It's not what I would call bad enough to make me want to take it in for just that. It does give me a small bit of concern that the potential for premature failure of the carrier bearing mount is higher than it would be if there is not any shudder. This would of course be after several years of city driving wearing on the rubber in the bearing mount getting jostled around.

Hi PH,

I think you will find that the rubber will hang in there long term. The elasticomeric suppliers know their rubber compounds very well. Think of the rear suspension front spring eye bushings, upper and lower control arm bushings. Exhaust hangers etc. If you are up to some development, try preloading the center bearing. loosen the center bearing to frame bolts. The insert a shim that is only over the rubber. Then tighten up an evaluate and see if this makes a change. The change might be worse or better. The results are important to understanding the vibration in absence of the sophisticated tools I used to use. It is my opinion that the compliance of the center bearing is part of the equasion, but since my vehicle is symptom free. Not something I would be able to take on for the purpose of this experiment. Changing the rubber "preload" might produce interesting results that can be fed back to Ford Engineering wrt the start up shudder.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

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