Sound Deadening

P. A. Schilke

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Is it not a cost point decision?
There is always better. One can always add more sound deadening.
At some point manufacturers balance cost against meeting average buyer expectations. Those on pickier end of expectation want more. Those on lower end could care less. Auto manufacturers seem to take offense to many comments. The Ranger can not be a Bugatti, but if one wants that there is aftermarket, money and time.
Hi Pete,

There are cost tradeoffs for sure. I think the NVH engineers missed the boat with rear passenger door road noise. clearly needs improvement. I don't know the actual sound path but someone does. removing the door panels and installing mastic might be ineffective. So I just live with the road noise...:frown:

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering,
Ford Motor Company Retired
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Sandman Ranger

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Hi Pete,

There are cost tradeoffs for sure. I think the NVH engineers missed the boat with rear passenger door road noise. clearly needs improvement. I don't know the actual sound path but someone does. removing the door panels and installing mastic might be ineffective. So I just live with the road noise...:frown:

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering,
Ford Motor Company Retired
Agree on rear door.
The sheet metal here feels weak. I notice it when I wash the truck. Tar backed sheets might help here. But for the most part the truck is very good. If I want more then the aftermarket is large and growing.
If AMP would just sell power steps some day! Thanks.
 

Wayne Kubeck

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I ordered sound deadening material along with closed cell foam to line the doors to cut down on both speaker vibrations in the doors as well as outside noise.

I’ll post pictures of the install once I find a diagram on how to remove the door panels without damage.
I am totally planning o doing the same thing!! Glad to hear about the improvements. I'd love to drop the headliner and do the roof as well
 

Zaph

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Need a bit of data...OEM are crap is a judgement...Why.? not big enough, poor frequency response? High notes truncated.

I am betting it is just the fact the speakers are OEM. Please provide some objective data as this is how Ford addresses concerns and strives for improvement and you can help drive this improvement process.
I have a bit of an audio engineering background. When summer rolls around, I'll likely get frequency response curves and harmonic distortion plots of the factory drivers, both mounted to a test baffle and in place. But my ears tell me the woofers are likely fine and the tweeters are the weak point. They are crossed over high, yet still seem a little ragged on the low end of their response, and the integration and imaging is relatively poor because of the high crossover point. I believe the system can be improved with an upgraded tweeter, a revised lower crossover point, the addition of a subwoofer to add extension, and the removal of enhanced engine sound processing. Biggest problem with the door drivers is the door itself and not the drivers.

I have the 301a package. (not the B&O package so I can't speak to that)

The last ranger I bought there was a product I installed that worked really well to improve door sound. They don't make it anymore. (that was 20 years ago) But I found a close equivalent in "Speaker Tweaker Anechoic Pads". These do a little rear wave absorption, but the primary improvement is how well they damp the raw steel right behind the speaker where the vibration is the worst and where it affects the sound the most. You can tell just with a knuckle rap on the back of the door before and after, it goes from a twang to a dull thunk. This is very heavy sound deadening material. Highly recommended. Just plain deadening pads aren't enough.
 

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Agree on rear door.
The sheet metal here feels weak. I notice it when I wash the truck. Tar backed sheets might help here. But for the most part the truck is very good. If I want more then the aftermarket is large and growing.
If AMP would just sell power steps some day! Thanks.
While I can confirm the door panels are very thin, I've not had a problem with noise in the rear (although if you ask my wife I have quite a hearing loss problem - so take it with a grain of salt). One of the things I really like about my Ranger is how quiet it is on the Freeway. It is a great daily driver and road trip vehicle.

I wonder if part of that is due to active noise cancellation technology?
 


P. A. Schilke

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I have a bit of an audio engineering background. When summer rolls around, I'll likely get frequency response curves and harmonic distortion plots of the factory drivers, both mounted to a test baffle and in place. But my ears tell me the woofers are likely fine and the tweeters are the weak point. They are crossed over high, yet still seem a little ragged on the low end of their response, and the integration and imaging is relatively poor because of the high crossover point. I believe the system can be improved with an upgraded tweeter, a revised lower crossover point, the addition of a subwoofer to add extension, and the removal of enhanced engine sound processing. Biggest problem with the door drivers is the door itself and not the drivers.

I have the 301a package. (not the B&O package so I can't speak to that)

The last ranger I bought there was a product I installed that worked really well to improve door sound. They don't make it anymore. (that was 20 years ago) But I found a close equivalent in "Speaker Tweaker Anechoic Pads". These do a little rear wave absorption, but the primary improvement is how well they damp the raw steel right behind the speaker where the vibration is the worst and where it affects the sound the most. You can tell just with a knuckle rap on the back of the door before and after, it goes from a twang to a dull thunk. This is very heavy sound deadening material. Highly recommended. Just plain deadening pads aren't enough.
Hi Z,

The sound power mapping is key to understanding where to apply damping material...otherwise you are guessing...Doing Audio enhancements/upgrades are a different deal, but the acoustic response you describe can be a real problem and damping this improves this but may not resolve root cause... Besides, if you have the sound system cranked up...road noise is muted big time. I rarely drive with the radio on as I want to concentrate on driving without unnecessary distractions for me....I am not advocating to stop listening to the sound system...This is just me...Way too many screaming Indy Car engines in my past and moderate to sever hearing damage to the point I have to be aware sounds that better hearing might be heard above the normal sounds inside the vehicle, eg...ambulance and police siren at a cross intersection. Wife begs me to get hearing aids, but my Masters of Mechanical Engineering was in Noise, Vibration and Harshness...I know hearing aids are not my solution until they become as smart as the human brain...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
 

Wschnitz

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Im actually surprised people have that much of an issue with the sound in the truck, I think its a little on the low end frequency wise but it prevents the ear strain really cheap OEM systems often have because of the cheaper tweeters. Out of all the new cars I've been in recently its still the best stock system I've heard.

That being said, If I wanted to push power through it I would definitely pick up different speakers if they really are only 20W Max. The speakers in my 89 BMW are even 80-100W max...

Definitely picking up a bunch of the material listed here eventually just to cut down a bit on the noise in doors.
 

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Hi Z,

The sound power mapping is key to understanding where to apply damping material...otherwise you are guessing...
If by power sound mapping you are referring to working out pressure nodes within the door, this pad I linked to isn't damping material for the primary purpose of rear wave absorption. It's for sheet metal damping, and that is needed the most right behind the cone. The rear wave gradually dissipates outwards.

I would disagree with you anyway. That kind of pressure node mapping in a door isn't needed because of how lossy the enclosure is. Nobody is going to waste their time doing that kind of work in a car door, the most imperfect enclosure known to man.

I installed one of these damping pads behind the woofer in my last Ranger door and I could hear the difference.
audio-speaker5-ranger-door.jpg

I designed the crossovers for these and took the frequency response curves myself. Had some great sound in that truck, was sorry to see it go but at nearly 200K miles it was starting to get maintenance heavy.
 

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So just to clarify, people are having an issue with music vibration on certain bass frequencies ? Because I have the b&o system, and my door panels stil vibrate at 12 and it’s super annoying..
 
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So just to clarify, people are having an issue with music vibration on certain bass frequencies ? Because I have the b&o system, and my door panels stil vibrate at 12 and it’s super annoying..
I found it was loose cabling vibrating against frame and door panel in ours. I was able to stop our vibration by using sticky foam insulation tape where I found the trouble spot to be, right on my hip. level. Dealer did nothing. I was able to put some foam strips in between cable and door surface it was knocking against without taking door apart too much. Vibration gone, and my wife listens to hers uncomfortably loud. I tried all sorts of music types and frequencies, hopefully lasts.
 

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Regarding road noise, one variable that shouldn't be overlooked is tires, as some brands/models are noisier than others. My XLT came with Bridgestones, but I have noticed other Rangers on Hankooks, and other brands.

On my previous trucks (F-150 and Tacoma), switching to Michelins from OEM was night and day difference in road noise, and I was prepared to swap these Bridgestones out too but they are actually very quiet.
 

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Hi Pete,

There are cost tradeoffs for sure. I think the NVH engineers missed the boat with rear passenger door road noise. clearly needs improvement. I don't know the actual sound path but someone does. removing the door panels and installing mastic might be ineffective. So I just live with the road noise...:frown:

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering,
Ford Motor Company Retired
Morning Phil! I had road noise and some vibrations in my f150 after I upgraded all of the speakers. I used dynamat on all 4 doors, both the inner and outer door skins (inner lower 1/3 to 1/2 based upon access) also did the back of the cab from the window to the floor. Made a HUGE difference in sound quality of the stereo plus cut the road noise down by 75% based on my hearing alone. You could tap on the outer door skin with your knuckle and it was a solid thud as opposed to the higher frequency tap before (bedside vs door tap was astounding difference) I didn't want or need to pull the headliner down. This summer I will do the same with the ranger. I have tinnitus really bad especially my right ear, 10 plus years of a 100 watt siren right over my head before osha made all agencies move them to the front. Surprised the auto makers who produced a police package never added sound deadening in the roof to protect the occupants.

I did not add any foam, didn't need it. Won't this time most likely.
 
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Dahctor

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Wish someone would check Db meter readings before and after a job like this over same road and speed. I switched from run flats to non-RFs on my car. Checked a Db meter before and after. Was surprised the sound changed by less than 1 Db. Curious the true effect of sound deadening in the Ranger. Do you think the floor will need some material?
The transmission loss change from inside to out will be negligible, as that is primarily controlled by the door seals which are the weakest point in the sound transfer path.
What this actually would reduce is structure borne noise of the vehicle itself. The mass of the doors will be a little higher which will change the sound characteristic and make the speakers more efficient. The structural damping will be higher, which will make any vibrations in the doors go away faster, which makes them worse radiators of sound.
I'm on week 3 of my Ranger, and I was looking at trying this. The easier way of determining transmission loss from inside to out is to use the sound system in the truck, and measure sound on the outside. Just need to make sure that your background noise outside the vehicle is low enough. Might be a project for me to tinker with.
More to come.
 

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Did our SuperCrew today very solid door closure.. Anyone remove the back seat to do the back of the cab? Just curious how big a job that was..
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