Quarts of ULV per Fitzstick Graduation?

[harringtondav]

Just finished installing my PPE pan and new trans filter. One qt LubeGuard and five qts of ULV. Cold engine off level was around '3'.
After a good warm up drive the stick was dry. So off to the dealer for more ULV. I'm starting in the blind, but think two qts should get me close to Mike's recommended level.
Does anyone have experience with quart of ULV vs Fitzstick measurements?
PS. Another forum member suggested using a extractor pump to drain the pan. I did and glad of it. With two more top off quarts I'll have pulled eight quarts....over 2/3 of the transmission's volume of old ATF.

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[RedlandRanger]

There is a whole discussion in this thread:

https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/thre...ngs-measured-at-different-ambient-temps.33733

The bad news is that no one has quite figured out exactly how much it takes to go up one number (or even hash mark) - I think part of it depends on what the temp of the fluid is - the fluid expands quite a bit when hot.

If you used the pump to extract it, I would start with replacing exactly what you pulled out (minus the lubeguard). On a warm transmission I'm pretty sure one quart of fluid will bump you up at least one number on the stick - and probably more. It doesn't take a lot to change the level quite a bit.

 

[Tom_C]

Short story. I installed the stick, read a high value, tried to drain using a pump and only got out a few quarts, cold. Added in 15oz lubeguard and enough fluid to get be back up to *some* level.

When warm, I still can't get a good reading, but then using MBS recommendation to read the stick in dim light, I can sort of see that I'm now high.

The truck drives OK at this level, but my next step is to warm it up and drain it down using the dim light method to try to get a good read.

This is not bashing MBS. It's a great product. It's just really hard to see the level on the stick.

 

[got3fords]

This is not bashing MBS. It's a great product. It's just really hard to see the level on the stick.

Indeed it is. If you have some sort of white lint free wipe (Kimwipe?), you can press the stick to it and see where the wet spot is. Just an option.

 

[harringtondav]

Thanks all. I'll recheck tomorrow when up to temp. I recall MBS's instructions caution about getting a good reading. I don't have Kwickwipes, but I have toilet paper.
The truck ran fine, so the sump level was high enough to feed the pump.
Also I know fluid expands when hot, but I also believe a trans sump level drops once the pump starts and refills any drainage from the TC and valve body.
I did a little trickery when pumping the sump. Once I was pulling bubbles I briefly started the engine to shake out any more TC fluid. ...thinking residual lube would prevent any bearing damage. ...got about 1/2 qt more.

 

[got3fords]

Thanks all. I'll recheck tomorrow when up to temp. I recall MBS's instructions caution about getting a good reading. I don't have Kwickwipes, but I have toilet paper.

Just be sure not to leave any TP "fuzz" on the stick.

 

[harringtondav]

There is a whole discussion in this thread:

https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/thre...ngs-measured-at-different-ambient-temps.33733

The bad news is that no one has quite figured out exactly how much it takes to go up one number (or even hash mark) - I think part of it depends on what the temp of the fluid is - the fluid expands quite a bit when hot.

If you used the pump to extract it, I would start with replacing exactly what you pulled out (minus the lubeguard). On a warm transmission I'm pretty sure one quart of fluid will bump you up at least one number on the stick - and probably more. It doesn't take a lot to change the level quite a bit.

After I installed the Fitzstick and heated up the trans, the level was a bit low, around 2. Since the truck ran fine for 30K miles, with towing, I towed my boat again and waited until today to adjust.
I pulled about 5.5 qts with the pump plus a bit more in the catch pan. So I figured 5 qts of ULV + I qt of LubeGuard would put me back close to 2-3.
Following responses recommend extra care when reading the Fitzstick, which I will do tomorrow.

 

[harringtondav]

Just be sure not to leave any TP "fuzz" on the stick.

Understood. I'll give the stick a good wipe with a left over red ATF rag before I put it back.

 

[TJC]

The easiest way that I have found to get the level right is to check it cold. You can easily see the level on the dipstick when the fluid is cold.

Start up the truck on level ground, run through the gears from park to sport and back in 5 second intervals.

Immediately check your fluid level. It should be no higher than 1/4" on the Fitzstick. This will get you solidly in the 4-5 range when fluid temps at 215F.

If you wait even a few minutes this method will not be accurate.

I initially set my fluid level at 215F to be on the diamond between 4 and 5. I then let the truck sit overnight and checked the level as I described above. Follow this link to my findings - With a supplied dipstick chart, and a timing table. Ambient air temp when I started was 75F. Fluid temp was 77.4F at start of the measurement test.

It is critically important not to overfill your transmission. And it is very easy to do just that.

 

[TJC]

I know my fluid level at 215F is accurate as I drilled a hole in the middle of the diamond between 4 and 5 on my fitzstick to capture the fluid film at the middle range fill point, at the fluid temperature top range limit.

I would advise folks not to attempt to drill through the dipstick. The steel is very hard and the bit will wonder. You can easily end up with a ruined dipstick. Then you'll end up being a repeat MBS customer!

And if you add fluid during this process, you are going to have to wait for the fluid to drain down the tube into the pan (several minutes) to obtain an accurate reading.

The transmission temperatures when fully warm at idle typically will be in the 180F-200F range. The fluid level at the 180F-200F temp range is between 5 and the first hash mark above 5 on the FitzStick..

It took my truck 37:20 to heat up to 180F at idle on a 75F day with AC on.

 

[jdamtb918]

I know my fluid level at 215F is accurate as I drilled a hole in the middle of the diamond between 4 and 5 on my fitzstick to capture the fluid film at the middle range fill point, at the fluid temperature top range limit.

I would advise folks not to attempt to drill through the dipstick. The steel is very hard and the bit will wonder. You can easily end up with a ruined dipstick. Then you'll end up being a repeat MBS customer!

And if you add fluid during this process, you are going to have to wait for the fluid to drain down the tube into the pan (several minutes) to obtain an accurate reading.

The transmission temperatures when fully warm at idle typically will be in the 180F-200F range. The fluid level at the 180F-200F temp range is between 5 and the first hash mark above 5 on the FitzStick..

It took my truck 37:20 to heat up to 180F at idle on a 75F day with AC on.

After work last night I checked my level when I pulled in to driveway. My temps were at 185 so I did a little power brake and got temps up to 210. At that temp I was reading right above the 4. So I should start removing some correct?

 

[Fitzmotor]

Yes, the question about fluid per hash mark, interesting one to answer, I tried to get a accurate number, I'm guessing the variance is the internal shape of the transmission, each full number step hash mark seemed to be a little different volume.

It is about only 6-8 oz between each number, the ULV fluid is so thin and clear that bright light makes it hard to read, I use the reflection off the trucks front amber marker light, or in the shade, sunlight works fine for older fluid.

So just add a little, start with about 6 oz if you are one number low, remove the same if you are a little high.

TJC did an great write up, it's linked above.

My browser is not getting along with 5G this morning, I can't quote or like any posts!

 

[Tom_C]

Indeed it is. If you have some sort of white lint free wipe (Kimwipe?), you can press the stick to it and see where the wet spot is. Just an option.

I do use the cloth method, and can sort of see the level. The only problem is the excess fluid on the stick makes that method hard as well. Cleaning the stick and then sliding it back down the tube distributes more fluid... I just have to try to determine the solid fluid mark on the rag, opposed to the lighter 'drip' marks above the true level.

It would be nice to see the true level on the stick without jumping through those hoops, but it is what it is.

 

[HeatXfer]

Food for thought:

The coefficient of thermal expansion (CTE) of ULV is very low, approx 0.0008/C°. If you start with 65°F(18.3°C) fluid, then warm the trans up to 215°F (101.7°C), the formula is as follows: [CTE x volume x delta T° = delta volume]

0.0008 x 7.2qts x (101.7°C - 18.3°C) = .480qts.

So if the 10R80 cold fluid capacity is 7.2qts, then that means it's designed to operate with 7.7qts at operating temperature (195°F - 215°F). But remember the torque converter can hold up to 2qts by itself - that's probably why we typically see about 5½qts when we drain the transmission.

 

[isslandboy]

Short story. I installed the stick, read a high value, tried to drain using a pump and only got out a few quarts, cold. Added in 15oz lubeguard and enough fluid to get be back up to *some* level.

When warm, I still can't get a good reading, but then using MBS recommendation to read the stick in dim light, I can sort of see that I'm now high.

The truck drives OK at this level, but my next step is to warm it up and drain it down using the dim light method to try to get a good read.

This is not bashing MBS. It's a great product. It's just really hard to see the level on the stick.

Old trick I learned as a mechanic, if you slap the dipstick against your coveralls, you will get an extremely light coat of dust on the dipstick, makes reading very easy. I know I will get flamed for adding "dirt", but it is an infinitesimal amount.

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