New Transmission time. 😮‍💨

[MountainGoat]

It is your truck, you are welcome to do as you wish, but that 150k interval is not set with the best interests of the truck owner in mind. Take a look through the GM 8-speed lawsuit documents that have been released and you'll catch a glimpse of the inner workings of how decisions are made by big companies in regards to setting maintenance intervals. (Hint: Wwill it get us to XXXXXX miles? If so, and we get there with an acceptable number of losses, then that is the number we'll use).

Keep in mind that an automatic transmission, by design, is the only oil-lubricated part of the entire vehicle that actively sheds debris into the oil (Both magnetic steel, and fiber). Yes, there is a filter, a pretty nice one at that, but it isn't going to catch microscopic magnetic particles in the oil. Over time those will be collected by the magnetic solenoids and can cause valve sticking issues.

You only have to look at te multiple TSB's that mention rebuilding or re-flashing the valve bodies for one reason or another in an attempt to free up the sticky valves or program around the slower valves.

Me? I intend to keep as much of this debris out of the oil as possible, and to do that you have to change the fluid to get the particles out of there that the filter won't catch.

Of course, this only solves half the problem. The drum issue is a separate issue that still might rear its head with my unit, but there's not much I can do about that.

Funny thing is our 10 speed was a Ford/GM collaboration. They worked together and still couldn't get it right. Also why brand loyalty is pretty pointless in 2024.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/08/lawsuit-brought-against-ford-transmission-co-developed-with-gm/

Sponsored

 

[ctechbob]

Funny thing is our 10 speed was a Ford/GM collaboration. They worked together and still couldn't get it right. Also why brand loyalty is pretty pointless in 2024.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/08/lawsuit-brought-against-ford-transmission-co-developed-with-gm/

Yup.

Time will tell how much of the blame can be laid at the engineer's feet and how much to be put on beancounters. Time-after-time the purchasing department swoops in and F%^$'s up a perfectly good design. Not that the GM 8 Speed is the greatest, but the root of most of their problems was caused by their purchasing department swapping from a carbon based clutch in the torque converter, to a paper based friction material made by another company because it would save them...........

$2 a unit.

Sure, that adds up, but ask GM now if they'd have rather spent that $2. Granted, it wasn't their only problem, the fluid they designed was a huge part of it, but had they stuck with the original carbon-based clutch, they could have swapped the fluid later (which they did) and cut WAYYY down on their warranty outlay.

 

[MountainGoat]

Yup.

Time will tell how much of the blame can be laid at the engineer's feet and how much to be put on beancounters. Time-after-time the purchasing department swoops in and F%^$'s up a perfectly good design. Not that the GM 8 Speed is the greatest, but the root of most of their problems was caused by their purchasing department swapping from a carbon based clutch in the torque converter, to a paper based friction material made by another company because it would save them...........

$2 a unit.

Sure, that adds up, but ask GM now if they'd have rather spent that $2. Granted, it wasn't their only problem, the fluid they designed was a huge part of it, but had they stuck with the original carbon-based clutch, they could have swapped the fluid later (which they did) and cut WAYYY down on their warranty outlay.

Well that's their endless pursuit of profit margins, taken to it's extreme. Your only recourse is to not buy it, stick with used. Of course the EPA breathing down their necks makes a problem too, constantly requiring squeezing more gears and hardware into the same size unit to get 0.2 better mpg. When I was an auto-xer there was general advice to avoid the Miata 6-speeds, because they squeeze smaller gears into the 5-speed trans case and they wear out. Now we've got 10, even 11 speed tranny is coming from Honda. Their automatics had a history of blowing up too.

 

[ctechbob]

Well that's their endless pursuit of profit margins, taken to it's extreme. Your only recourse is to not buy it, stick with used. Of course the EPA breathing down their necks doesn't help, constantly requiring squeezing more gears and hardware into the same size unit to get 0.2 better mpg. When I was an auto-xer there was general advice to avoid the Miata 6-speeds, because they squeeze smaller gears into the 5-speed trans and they wear out. Now we've got 10, even 11 speed tranny is coming from Honda. Their automatics had a history of blowing up too.

Yep, I own one of the Honda 'made of glass' 5 speeds, and also the version that came out just after it (the '4 shaft' unit) that is damn near bulletproof.

Only thing left for us to do is the best we can, make good choices, maintain them, and deal with what comes up.

As far as the 10 speeds, they let these 'little' trucks/engines do some flat-out amazing things that would be unheard of a decade ago, so they're not all that bad. I don't think towing a 6200# travel trailer, even with our 270hp/310tq motors would be anywhere near as effortless with a 4/6 speed box, so in that regard they are a win.

 

[TJC]

IDK who's pouring the kool-aid: The OEMs or the shops selling transmission fluid changes...

I'm at 86k miles with no changes and it functions fine. I guess I'll report back when it fails in 14k miles.

I hold my autos for as long as possible, and I don't tolerate autos that leave me stranded on the road. 20+ years is not unusual for me to keep a car or truck. I run the total mileage as high as I can through regular maintenance. For me it is all about annual cost of ownership of a vehicle. The longer I hold it the lower the annual cost becomes. Until this last cycle, my $$ target was $1000 annually. My last generation of cars and trucks cars all came in under that $1000 annual expense target.

I purchased a 2020 Ranger, and a 2023 Mazda CX-5 this latest round. If I keep those 2 autos 15 years I will be approaching $1700 annual expenses. Car prices roughly doubled from the 2003 - 2005.

I have great confidence in the CX-5, not so much in the 2020 Ranger. As a result, this time around I kept the 2005 Ranger and rebuilt it from the ground up. If I get another 10 years out of it I will meet my $1,000 annual expense target. I kept the old Ranger as insurance only because I am uncertain that the 2020 Ranger is of the same quality as the 2005 model... I fear that it may not last. I may unload it by mid year if I feel the work I am doing on it doesn't improve the reliability of the truck.

Back to automatic transmissions, as a general rule, once an automatic transmission exceeds about 100K miles, it is best to not change the fluid. By this point, you milk it for as long as it will go, typically 150K - 175K miles.

If however, you change the fluid/filter at regular intervals, the transmission's life can be easily doubled or tripled. I have personal experience, and I have friends whose cars are going strong at 300K miles with the same drive train. Regular fluid changes make that possible.

The old TV commercial adage is true. "You can pay me now" (regular maintenance) "or pay me later" (much more expensive as major components fail, or a new replacement is required).

If you typically keep a car or truck 2-5 years, there is no need to bother with drive train maintenance other than oil changes and filters. It will probably prove to reliable in the short term.

This strategy has proven to be cost effective for me. YMMV

 

[MountainGoat]

Yep, I own one of the Honda 'made of glass' 5 speeds, and also the version that came out just after it (the '4 shaft' unit) that is damn near bulletproof.

Only thing left for us to do is the best we can, make good choices, maintain them, and deal with what comes up.

As far as the 10 speeds, they let these 'little' trucks/engines do some flat-out amazing things that would be unheard of a decade ago, so they're not all that bad. I don't think towing a 6200# travel trailer, even with our 270hp/310tq motors would be anywhere near as effortless with a 4/6 speed box, so in that regard they are a win.

I towed a steel trailer and my track car with an older F150. About 5,000 pounds and the 4.6 V8 made 210hp/290tq. It wasn't bad at all, crossed more than one state line with it.

 

[TJC]

Well that's their endless pursuit of profit margins, taken to it's extreme. Your only recourse is to not buy it, stick with used. Of course the EPA breathing down their necks makes a problem too, constantly requiring squeezing more gears and hardware into the same size unit to get 0.2 better mpg. When I was an auto-xer there was general advice to avoid the Miata 6-speeds, because they squeeze smaller gears into the 5-speed trans case and they wear out. Now we've got 10, even 11 speed tranny is coming from Honda. Their automatics had a history of blowing up too.

I stayed with my 1993 LE Miata and its 5 speed manual for just that reason. I have a spare new 5 speed on the rack in the garage. I got it cheap, but will probably never need it.

 

[ctechbob]

I stayed with my 1993 LE Miata and its 5 speed manual for just that reason. I have a spare new 5 speed on the rack in the garage. I got it cheap, but will probably never need it.

Wish I'd never sold my 91.

 

[YaBoiNewton]

I hold my autos for as long as possible, and I don't tolerate autos that leave me stranded on the road. 20+ years is not unusual for me to keep a car or truck. I run the total mileage as high as I can through regular maintenance. For me it is all about annual cost of ownership of a vehicle. The longer I hold it the lower the annual cost becomes. Until this last cycle, my $$ target was $1000 annually. My last generation of cars and trucks cars all came in under that $1000 annual expense target.

I purchased a 2020 Ranger, and a 2023 Mazda CX-5 this latest round. If I keep those 2 autos 15 years I will be approaching $1700 annual expenses. Car prices roughly doubled from the 2003 - 2005.

I have great confidence in the CX-5, not so much in the 2020 Ranger. As a result, this time around I kept the 2005 Ranger and rebuilt it from the ground up. If I get another 10 years out of it I will meet my $1,000 annual expense target. I kept the old Ranger as insurance only because I am uncertain that the 2020 Ranger is of the same quality as the 2005 model... I fear that it may not last. I may unload it by mid year if I feel the work I am doing on it doesn't improve the reliability of the truck.

Back to automatic transmissions, as a general rule, once an automatic transmission exceeds about 100K miles, it is best to not change the fluid. By this point, you milk it for as long as it will go, typically 150K - 175K miles.

If however, you change the fluid/filter at regular intervals, the transmission's life can be easily doubled or tripled. I have personal experience, and I have friends whose cars are going strong at 300K miles with the same drive train. Regular fluid changes make that possible.

The old TV commercial adage is true. "You can pay me now" (regular maintenance) "or pay me later" (much more expensive as major components fail, or a new replacement is required).

If you typically keep a car or truck 2-5 years, there is no need to bother with drive train maintenance other than oil changes and filters. It will probably prove to reliable in the short term.

This strategy has proven to be cost effective for me. YMMV

Alright fair enough. My only response here is these anecdotes aren't really getting us anywhere, as I've had nearly the same experience with drivetrain longevity without changing transmission fluid in several vehicles. I will do the same with this Ranger and expect to keep if for years to come. I have no reason to believe it will fail me, but we'll see what happens. If it fails, I'll swap the transmission and start doing fluid changes. ?‍

 

[Stic-o]

Alright fair enough. My only response here is these anecdotes aren't really getting us anywhere, as I've had nearly the same experience with drivetrain longevity without changing transmission fluid in several vehicles. I will do the same with this Ranger and expect to keep if for years to come. I have no reason to believe it will fail me, but we'll see what happens. If it fails, I'll swap the transmission and start doing fluid changes. ?‍

If it helps earlier Ranger/Explorer Automatics we're not that great either. A4LD and later 5R55E don't make it past much over 100k.

 

[Cmar]

Maybe they should have stuck with the 6 speed ZF box.

 

[Stic-o]

Maybe they should have stuck with the 6 speed ZF box.

Yeah but people are to lazy to row anymore. That is awesome transmission though.

 

[TJC]

If it helps earlier Ranger/Explorer Automatics we're not that great either. A4LD and later 5R55E don't make it past much over 100k.

I got 156K out of my 5R55E without changing the trans fluid. When the Jasper engine and transmission went in, I installed a trannie pan with a plug. I'm coming up on 10K on the new drive train and the first trannie oil and filter change. We will see how it goes..

FWIW, all we will ever have is anecdotal evidence. Manufacturers are not going to tell us their marketing strategy, or longevity tests results. You can be sure they have them, and you can also be sure that they have obsolescence strategies. They know the failure points, and they know how long parts will last. I'm sure that they make mistakes, but there is a design science technology at play here. Manufacturers are balancing on a tightrope between designing products that last just long enough to keep you coming back for replacements without alienating the consumer to the point of losing customers.

For instance, several manufacturers make key components using zinc or zinc alloys, knowing the rate of decay from electrolysis of the part.

Hot water heaters and outboard motors have sacrificial zinc anodes attached. The zinc protects the other metals from corrosion. Once the zinc is consumed the rust/corrosion begins on the other metals.

I installed a 40 year metal roof on my home. It has a zinc coating just under the paint. It will begin to fail when the paint weakens, then when the zinc is consumed, and the rust begins. But I won't be here to see it. The manufacturer knows it will make 40 years, and makes the guarantee to that effect.

If they build a product to last 20 years, they will lose sales over a product that lasts only 10 years at the same price point.

Most household appliances are designed to fail at the 7 year mark. And manufacturing design engineers brag about how close that they can get to that target. Whirlpool is the best in the industry at design failures by mean hourly usage / date. I have personally talked to the engineers at several of these manufacturers. They are very good at what they do.

It is what it is. Determining how we mitigate these realities to our advantage is the $64K question.

 

[Cmar]

I installed a 40 year metal roof on my home. It has a zinc coating just under the paint. It will begin to fail when the paint weakens, then when the zinc is consumed, and the rust begins. But I won't be here to see it. The manufacturer knows it will make 40 years, and makes the guarantee to that effect.

We also have a colorbond roof. It is now 30 years old and still in relatively good condition, although now a considerably lighter shade of green. Metal roofs are very popular in Australia particularly in the northern areas because when screwed down securely with long roofing screws they have a high cyclone rating, and you can also collect drinking water from them.

The old fashioned "galvanised iron" roofs had a very long life as the metal base and zinc was much thicker than the newer colorbond ones, they would still remain watertight for many years even after going rusty, there are plenty of buildings over here > 100 years old still sporting the original corrugated iron roofs. Apparently the corrugated iron for these early roofs often came over from England as ballast in sailing ships!

 

[Stic-o]

What a pain in the....but she's out.

Sponsored