SegFault
Well-Known Member
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- #1
I'm not sure where to start with this. Long story short, I've been experiencing intermittent vibration at highway speeds (60+ mph), for about a year. Prior to this time, there was absolutely none, even at well above highway speeds (some toll roads here are 75+ mph, and I’ve driven enough above this with no vibrations.) My truck isn't driven very much since I work from home, and most of the miles on it are either grocery / Costco runs or vacation road trips. Other than that, it's in the garage 5-6 days a week, sometimes more. This is the *short* version of the issue and what I’ve done, believe it or not. I don’t have a tl;dr version, so stop reading now if you’re not bored or have some free time.
The vibration started after I had a flat plugged in my rear passenger side tire. I found the tire completely flat in the garage one weekend, I'd run over a screw and the tire slow-leaked to completely flat. I grabbed the air pump to see if it would hold air, and it did, so I drove it over to the Discount Tire location where I'd purchased the tires, about 4 miles away, and left it with them. I picked the truck less than an hour later, drove home, and everything seemed fine, but this was all city streets at speeds of 40mph. I didn't notice the vibration until a week or so later when I went across town via highway.
The vibration started a little above 60mph and continued up to 70mph and higher. I figured that when I'd had the flat plugged that my local Discount Tire must have rebalanced the tire wrong after the repair, something that this particular Discount Tire location has a history of doing. So, I did what I'd done in the past to get incorrectly balanced tires fixed, I went to the next closest Discount Tire store that had always resolved the balancing issues caused by my local store. Except this time, when this store checked the balance on the tires, they were all correct -- something that had never happened before. I explained the vibration issue, what the other store had done (plugged a flat tire), and they agreed to rebalance all of the tires for me because of the known issues and history of tire balancing with the other store. Even after this, the truck still had the same vibration issue, mainly in the seat, but some in the steering wheel.
Since I was due for an oil change anyway, I decided to get a second opinion on the tire balancing and made an appointment with the Ford Dealership that I normally use. This dealership, which I'll call "dealership A" is one I'd used in the past for minor parts (tailgate letters, floor mats) and prior oil changes.
And this is where things turn into a complete Ford dealership shitshow, with the "we're all franchises" excuse to do the bare minimum amount of diagnostic or any other work. I told dealership "A" that I needed an oil change, told them the story of the vibration and the number of times I'd had tires balanced at multiple Discount Tire locations, and said that I needed them to check and rebalance the tires if needed. When I picked the truck up, I was told that they "found rear tires to have possible have torn inter belts, all tires balanced to zero" (this is the exact quote from the service invoice.) I took this write-up back to Discount Tire, the location that always seemed able to fix the balancing issues, and they told me that what was written (“torn inter belts”) wasn't actually a thing (obviously), and that if that *were* the case, that it would be clearly visible on the tires. They agreed to pull all tires off of the wheels, remount, rebalance (force road balance), and let me try from there. I saw this entire process and they showed me the whole process, including the balancing. I left, went home via highway, and still had the same vibration issues. I was leaving on a road trip to Colorado in a couple of days, so I had to live with it.
The road trip clarified a few things about the vibration: It was intermittent, sometimes feeling like I was running over a gravel washboard, other times just a slight, still present vibration. It seemed the worst when decelerating on the highway going downhill, but this wasn't always the case. The speed didn't seem to matter either, the same vibrations varied from speeds between 65-85mph, with no consistency. I decided I'd be headed back to Ford when I got home, because given this behavior, how could it be the tires?
So I went back to Ford dealership "A", and told them the symptoms of inconsistent vibration, and asked them to check and perform an alignment if needed. I also asked them to check the suspension for anything that might be off. And this is where I got the "franchise" dealership nonsense: I was charged for an alignment, it was slightly out of spec on the camber and toe, but nothing off enough to cause the vibrations that were still occurring. And THEN I was told that dealership "A" could not diagnose anything suspension related because the suspension was not stock. I pointed out that the suspension is a FORD suspension installed by a different FORD dealership in town (Ford dealership "B") and that they'd just performed an alignment on this "not stock" suspension, but couldn’t do diagnostic or troubleshooting work on it? I was told that they're a "franchise" and that they don't really work with other dealerships and that I'd need to take the truck to dealership "B" to have the suspension check / diagnosis performed. They also said, and again I'm quoting from the service invoice, "inspected drive line. found drive shaft wobbling". I pointed out that the drive shaft wasn't and isn't part of any FORD suspension kit and is obviously stock (if they looked) and they said I'd need to have dealership B diagnose my issue.
I made an appointment with dealership "B" and explained this ENTIRE story to them, mentioning that not only would dealership "A" not diagnose anything non-stock on my truck, but that their recommended fix for my vibration issue, in order to continue troubleshooting, was to return the suspension to stock. Dealership "A" was also kind enough to provide me a price to do this work, something I declined. To dealership "B"'s credit, they didn't badmouth dealership "A", even after reading dealership "A"'s full writeup (I provided.) Dealership "B" only questioned why dealership "A" couldn't diagnose the driveline (driveshaft) issue they claimed to have found since it was a stock component. I agreed, and left dealership "B" the truck to work on.
Nearly a week later, after not hearing anything from dealership "B", I called them and asked for an update. They told me that the truck was ready to pick up, and that they had 1) found nothing wrong on the suspension or driveshaft (no "wobbling"), and had also put a different set of tires and wheels on my truck and found that with their tires and wheels on the truck, there were no vibrations, the ride was smooth. I couldn't verify this, I wasn't there when they performed the alternate wheel/tire test.
When I picked the truck up from dealership "B", I was surprised with a $165 bill for diagnostic work (I was given no estimate when I dropped the truck off, I assumed it was warranty because they installed and warrantied the suspension) and also told that I needed an alignment. I told them that dealership "A" had performed an alignment only 2 months earlier, and they told me that if I wanted them to perform an alignment, that I'd be charged for it. Dealership "B" said that I would need dealership "A" to address this, or I could pay them to perform an alignment. Had I known that using Ford parts and having them installed by a Ford dealership meant absolutely less than nothing when it came to other Ford dealerships performing basic diagnostics, let alone warranty work, I wouldn't have bothered buying any Ford parts. I would've gone with something from Icon or OME, because it would've been the same amount of effort required on my part for component related warranty work (my Fox suspension was still under warranty from dealership “B”.) And at this point, based on how Ford's dealerships operate, I'd steer anyone I know away from buying any Ford vehicle, at least until they can clean up their dealership mess because it's apparently rotted all the way through sales (see: Bronco markups and gouging) to service (my experience is likely very, very common.)
As a side note, I took my truck back to dealership “A” and told them dealership “B” had found the suspension out of alignment (enough out of spec that they wanted to adjust and charge me for it) and dealership “A” agreed to check the alignment at no charge. Not surprisingly, they found the suspension IN spec and nothing needed to be adjusted. So I likely need a third opinion here.
If you've read this far, you probably need better hobbies (I know I do), but now I'm stuck trying to figure out what to do about my tires because dealership "B" has determined that the tires are the cause of the vibrations. Discount Tire has offered some credit back on my tires towards new ones (minimal), and I mostly understand their position on this. I mostly understand because I don't have proof of defective tires, only barely passing circumstantial information from two different Ford dealerships, both of which can only be bothered to do the bare minimum of service work and then make it the customer’s responsibility for anything more. I can try to get something out of Cooper Tires directly (the tires are AT3 4S with about 12,000 miles on them in 2 years) by retelling this story, but at this point, if I'm going to be out any money on tires, I'd probably just start over with some other brand. After dealing with this all on Friday, I'm too pissed off and tired to spend any more time and effort on it. I'm already well over my quota.
Thanks for coming to my not-a-TED Talk.
The vibration started after I had a flat plugged in my rear passenger side tire. I found the tire completely flat in the garage one weekend, I'd run over a screw and the tire slow-leaked to completely flat. I grabbed the air pump to see if it would hold air, and it did, so I drove it over to the Discount Tire location where I'd purchased the tires, about 4 miles away, and left it with them. I picked the truck less than an hour later, drove home, and everything seemed fine, but this was all city streets at speeds of 40mph. I didn't notice the vibration until a week or so later when I went across town via highway.
The vibration started a little above 60mph and continued up to 70mph and higher. I figured that when I'd had the flat plugged that my local Discount Tire must have rebalanced the tire wrong after the repair, something that this particular Discount Tire location has a history of doing. So, I did what I'd done in the past to get incorrectly balanced tires fixed, I went to the next closest Discount Tire store that had always resolved the balancing issues caused by my local store. Except this time, when this store checked the balance on the tires, they were all correct -- something that had never happened before. I explained the vibration issue, what the other store had done (plugged a flat tire), and they agreed to rebalance all of the tires for me because of the known issues and history of tire balancing with the other store. Even after this, the truck still had the same vibration issue, mainly in the seat, but some in the steering wheel.
Since I was due for an oil change anyway, I decided to get a second opinion on the tire balancing and made an appointment with the Ford Dealership that I normally use. This dealership, which I'll call "dealership A" is one I'd used in the past for minor parts (tailgate letters, floor mats) and prior oil changes.
And this is where things turn into a complete Ford dealership shitshow, with the "we're all franchises" excuse to do the bare minimum amount of diagnostic or any other work. I told dealership "A" that I needed an oil change, told them the story of the vibration and the number of times I'd had tires balanced at multiple Discount Tire locations, and said that I needed them to check and rebalance the tires if needed. When I picked the truck up, I was told that they "found rear tires to have possible have torn inter belts, all tires balanced to zero" (this is the exact quote from the service invoice.) I took this write-up back to Discount Tire, the location that always seemed able to fix the balancing issues, and they told me that what was written (“torn inter belts”) wasn't actually a thing (obviously), and that if that *were* the case, that it would be clearly visible on the tires. They agreed to pull all tires off of the wheels, remount, rebalance (force road balance), and let me try from there. I saw this entire process and they showed me the whole process, including the balancing. I left, went home via highway, and still had the same vibration issues. I was leaving on a road trip to Colorado in a couple of days, so I had to live with it.
The road trip clarified a few things about the vibration: It was intermittent, sometimes feeling like I was running over a gravel washboard, other times just a slight, still present vibration. It seemed the worst when decelerating on the highway going downhill, but this wasn't always the case. The speed didn't seem to matter either, the same vibrations varied from speeds between 65-85mph, with no consistency. I decided I'd be headed back to Ford when I got home, because given this behavior, how could it be the tires?
So I went back to Ford dealership "A", and told them the symptoms of inconsistent vibration, and asked them to check and perform an alignment if needed. I also asked them to check the suspension for anything that might be off. And this is where I got the "franchise" dealership nonsense: I was charged for an alignment, it was slightly out of spec on the camber and toe, but nothing off enough to cause the vibrations that were still occurring. And THEN I was told that dealership "A" could not diagnose anything suspension related because the suspension was not stock. I pointed out that the suspension is a FORD suspension installed by a different FORD dealership in town (Ford dealership "B") and that they'd just performed an alignment on this "not stock" suspension, but couldn’t do diagnostic or troubleshooting work on it? I was told that they're a "franchise" and that they don't really work with other dealerships and that I'd need to take the truck to dealership "B" to have the suspension check / diagnosis performed. They also said, and again I'm quoting from the service invoice, "inspected drive line. found drive shaft wobbling". I pointed out that the drive shaft wasn't and isn't part of any FORD suspension kit and is obviously stock (if they looked) and they said I'd need to have dealership B diagnose my issue.
I made an appointment with dealership "B" and explained this ENTIRE story to them, mentioning that not only would dealership "A" not diagnose anything non-stock on my truck, but that their recommended fix for my vibration issue, in order to continue troubleshooting, was to return the suspension to stock. Dealership "A" was also kind enough to provide me a price to do this work, something I declined. To dealership "B"'s credit, they didn't badmouth dealership "A", even after reading dealership "A"'s full writeup (I provided.) Dealership "B" only questioned why dealership "A" couldn't diagnose the driveline (driveshaft) issue they claimed to have found since it was a stock component. I agreed, and left dealership "B" the truck to work on.
Nearly a week later, after not hearing anything from dealership "B", I called them and asked for an update. They told me that the truck was ready to pick up, and that they had 1) found nothing wrong on the suspension or driveshaft (no "wobbling"), and had also put a different set of tires and wheels on my truck and found that with their tires and wheels on the truck, there were no vibrations, the ride was smooth. I couldn't verify this, I wasn't there when they performed the alternate wheel/tire test.
When I picked the truck up from dealership "B", I was surprised with a $165 bill for diagnostic work (I was given no estimate when I dropped the truck off, I assumed it was warranty because they installed and warrantied the suspension) and also told that I needed an alignment. I told them that dealership "A" had performed an alignment only 2 months earlier, and they told me that if I wanted them to perform an alignment, that I'd be charged for it. Dealership "B" said that I would need dealership "A" to address this, or I could pay them to perform an alignment. Had I known that using Ford parts and having them installed by a Ford dealership meant absolutely less than nothing when it came to other Ford dealerships performing basic diagnostics, let alone warranty work, I wouldn't have bothered buying any Ford parts. I would've gone with something from Icon or OME, because it would've been the same amount of effort required on my part for component related warranty work (my Fox suspension was still under warranty from dealership “B”.) And at this point, based on how Ford's dealerships operate, I'd steer anyone I know away from buying any Ford vehicle, at least until they can clean up their dealership mess because it's apparently rotted all the way through sales (see: Bronco markups and gouging) to service (my experience is likely very, very common.)
As a side note, I took my truck back to dealership “A” and told them dealership “B” had found the suspension out of alignment (enough out of spec that they wanted to adjust and charge me for it) and dealership “A” agreed to check the alignment at no charge. Not surprisingly, they found the suspension IN spec and nothing needed to be adjusted. So I likely need a third opinion here.
If you've read this far, you probably need better hobbies (I know I do), but now I'm stuck trying to figure out what to do about my tires because dealership "B" has determined that the tires are the cause of the vibrations. Discount Tire has offered some credit back on my tires towards new ones (minimal), and I mostly understand their position on this. I mostly understand because I don't have proof of defective tires, only barely passing circumstantial information from two different Ford dealerships, both of which can only be bothered to do the bare minimum of service work and then make it the customer’s responsibility for anything more. I can try to get something out of Cooper Tires directly (the tires are AT3 4S with about 12,000 miles on them in 2 years) by retelling this story, but at this point, if I'm going to be out any money on tires, I'd probably just start over with some other brand. After dealing with this all on Friday, I'm too pissed off and tired to spend any more time and effort on it. I'm already well over my quota.
Thanks for coming to my not-a-TED Talk.
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