Fuel Induction and Throttle Body Cleaning Service

AzScorpion

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Honestly I dont know too much about that one. Also something I have noticed is if you just ise a simple fuel injection cleaner through the tank regularly then you should be fine in general. I myself prefer the berryman's B12 chemtool and used it every oil change in my Frontier. Did I see a performance difference? Not really, if anything it was basic maintenance just to keep it from having any problems and all the way to 73k it did fine. For the ranger in use the Royal purple every 10k since it recommends that and ot has the spout adapter where I dont have to use the little plastic funnel the truck comes with. That is my input on this. Also something I noticed when I was working at parts stores for many years as most people would buy it thinking it's going to fix a problem. But that being said we like to call it hope in a bottle LOL. When you're just doing maintenance you should be fine.

Thanks! IIRC you use it every 7K miles so for me that's about once a year. lol I use a lot of Gold Eagle products and figured this would be good just for maintantence like you said.
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Frenchy

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Now for this I'm just going to be straight honest. I am a big believer that Amsoil is the biggest waste of money ever. I'm not trying to be mean here but the biggest thing is you have to find a dealer. Not every part store carries Amsoil to begin with so if you're in a rural area the chances of being able to get in our very slim with the exception of ordering off Amazon or something. Also the claim that they say you never need a higher octane fuel is ridiculous. If there's something I learned Intech School is octane boosters as an additive can cause damage to a vehicle if used very regularly. For that to happen you would have to use it every tank and I would hope that you're not doing that. If you were just using it every 5000 or 10000 miles depending just to do as a basic maintenance that it's not so bad. But like I said I am not a believer in Amsoil and I think it is the biggest waste of money ever. I have heard of plenty of people using Amsoil oil and going far past the manufacturer's recommended intervals for oil changes because they think the oil is doing just fine and they end up killing the engine in their vehicle but still think and boils the best out there. My brother also tried to get into an argument with me about how Amsoil was way better than Mobil 1. I simply laughed at him and told him I can get mobile one just about anywhere and there are plenty of high-end manufacturers that have no problems using Mobil 1 in their vehicles. If that's not a good enough reason I don't know what is.
 

P. A. Schilke

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So let me help clear everything up on this since not everyone understands what the induction system cleaning services. Ever since direct-injection Vehicles came out they started having a problem after 40000 miles there would be a possibility of valve springs breaking on the intake side and causing valves to go straight into the engine and cause massive failure. What cause that you might have? What simple it is carbon deposits being formed on the intake valves. You don't get this near as much with port injection or throttle body fuel injection or even carburetors for that matter. Why you might ask? Simple, on those systems you have fuel running across the intake valve so it does wash the valves of the carbon deposits to an extent. Direct injection on the other hand fires fuel directly into the combustion chamber and doesn't even touch the intake valves. Ford has been getting smart in general what's a lot of the new engines where they have both direct injection and port fuel injection. They did that for the exact reason I just mentioned earlier. Unfortunately the 2.3 l EcoBoost is not one of those engines. This is a normal maintenance for direct-injected vehicles. Will I do it on my truck? Absolutely I will. Why you might ask? Simply because I don't want my engine to go to kaboom because a intake valve decided to drop from a braking valve spring. I have seen this happen with General Motors and don't want to chance it on my brand new truck. So no it isn't just a wallet cleaning product. This is an actual maintenance product but you only need to do it generally speaking around every 30,000 to 40000 miles. Hopefully this cleared up enough confusion.

Perhaps our wonderful friend/engineer @P. A. Schilke can give another reason to go with this.

Hi Chris,

Ford runs a durability rout that has been correlated to 150,000 miles of a 90 percentile customer. The test is grueling and regular maintenance is performed per the owners manual. In addition, there are engine dyno tests to support the 150K miles as well. If certain maintenance is needed, it is included in the owner's manual with the mileage set points or time in months.

This is where we get into what we called Belt and Suspenders with a rope in your pocket just in case both the belt and Suspenders fail...use the rope. I think this induction cleaning which has been shown in another video on another thread, is something to consider, but is not in the owner's manual as absolutely necessary. The cleaning process is quite involved with blasting the intake valve with walnut shells....similar to the use on jet engines.

I think that the usage of the vehicle, the oil used in the motor and other factors of aging etc. will determine if this is worthwhile or not My first experience with gasoline direct injection came in 1974 with stratified charge DI system on the 302 Cid V8. It was actually the precursor EcoBoost. The fleet of PROCO (Programed Combustion) were put into Crown Vic sedans and sent to our management for long term evaluation. Computer controls were archaic with a computer the sized to take up much of the trunk. At the end of the program, engines were torn down for analysis and there was notable carbon build up on the intake valves, so Ford was aware of this "potential problem" way back in 1975-1976 when the plug was pulled on the PROCO program due to huge costs and non sophisticated electronics.

Okay...long winded and I sit on the fence if this is a needed dealer cleaning or not. In my particular case of my Ranger, It is likely I will not see 40,000 miles as I will be in a position of pushing up daisy flowers. Well...maybe just ashes in a urn...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
 

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Now for this I'm just going to be straight honest. I am a big believer that Amsoil is the biggest waste of money ever. I'm not trying to be mean here but the biggest thing is you have to find a dealer. Not every part store carries Amsoil to begin with so if you're in a rural area the chances of being able to get in our very slim with the exception of ordering off Amazon or something. Also the claim that they say you never need a higher octane fuel is ridiculous. If there's something I learned Intech School is octane boosters as an additive can cause damage to a vehicle if used very regularly. For that to happen you would have to use it every tank and I would hope that you're not doing that. If you were just using it every 5000 or 10000 miles depending just to do as a basic maintenance that it's not so bad. But like I said I am not a believer in Amsoil and I think it is the biggest waste of money ever. I have heard of plenty of people using Amsoil oil and going far past the manufacturer's recommended intervals for oil changes because they think the oil is doing just fine and they end up killing the engine in their vehicle but still think and boils the best out there. My brother also tried to get into an argument with me about how Amsoil was way better than Mobil 1. I simply laughed at him and told him I can get mobile one just about anywhere and there are plenty of high-end manufacturers that have no problems using Mobil 1 in their vehicles. If that's not a good enough reason I don't know what is.
I don’t take it personally. Good to hear others opinions.
 

Frenchy

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Hi Chris,

Ford runs a durability rout that has been correlated to 150,000 miles of a 90 percentile customer. The test is grueling and regular maintenance is performed per the owners manual. In addition, there are engine dyno tests to support the 150K miles as well. If certain maintenance is needed, it is included in the owner's manual with the mileage set points or time in months.

This is where we get into what we called Belt and Suspenders with a rope in your pocket just in case both the belt and Suspenders fail...use the rope. I think this induction cleaning which has been shown in another video on another thread, is something to consider, but is not in the owner's manual as absolutely necessary. The cleaning process is quite involved with blasting the intake valve with walnut shells....similar to the use on jet engines.

I think that the usage of the vehicle, the oil used in the motor and other factors of aging etc. will determine if this is worthwhile or not My first experience with gasoline direct injection came in 1974 with stratified charge DI system on the 302 Cid V8. It was actually the precursor EcoBoost. The fleet of PROCO (Programed Combustion) were put into Crown Vic sedans and sent to our management for long term evaluation. Computer controls were archaic with a computer the sized to take up much of the trunk. At the end of the program, engines were torn down for analysis and there was notable carbon build up on the intake valves, so Ford was aware of this "potential problem" way back in 1975-1976 when the plug was pulled on the PROCO program due to huge costs and non sophisticated electronics.

Okay...long winded and I sit on the fence if this is a needed dealer cleaning or not. In my particular case of my Ranger, It is likely I will not see 40,000 miles as I will be in a position of pushing up daisy flowers. Well...maybe just ashes in a urn...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
To start with...... I'm sorry but you are not allowed to go at all!! Most of us dont want you leave lol!!!

Also I do appreciate your input on this. Im sure it helps a lot of people on these different subjects overall.

Lastly that project must have been an interesting one and I can only imagine the amount of power they were putting out on the 302 with direct injection. Must have been a cool and interesting project.
 


dtech

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Articles I've read on gdi and intake deposits suggest that it's highly variable, some engines being more prone to it, such as BMW having issues early on yrs back. One article recommended that if you choose to do it start early as the deposits get increasingly difficult to remove with solvents as the miles pile up, but I've also seen information from gdi engine tear downs (100+ miles) where there are deposits but they had no apparent impact on engine performance - such as rough idle or stalling at cold start up , or loss of power or drop in mpgs. Never heard of valves breaking but you said Chevy.....
For me I've never been an additive person - try and use top tier fuel vs fuel system additives with respect to injectors.
Some articles suggest catch cans may be the most effective approach to control intake valve deposits, I have one on my Hyundai 2.0T and it doesn't catch much.
I wonder what % of owners of GDI engines perform the intake valve cleaning.
 

Frenchy

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Articles I've read on gdi and intake deposits suggest that it's highly variable, some engines being more prone to it, such as BMW having issues early on yrs back. One article recommended that if you choose to do it start early as the deposits get increasingly difficult to remove with solvents as the miles pile up, but I've also seen information from gdi engine tear downs (100+ miles) where there are deposits but they had no apparent impact on engine performance - such as rough idle or stalling at cold start up , or loss of power or drop in mpgs. Never heard of valves breaking but you said Chevy.....
For me I've never been an additive person - try and use top tier fuel vs fuel system additives with respect to injectors.
Some articles suggest catch cans may be the most effective approach to control intake valve deposits, I have one on my Hyundai 2.0T and it doesn't catch much.
I wonder what % of owners of GDI engines perform the intake valve cleaning.
I honestly don't know the percentage those people that actually do it but there are plenty of people out there that don't like to do the extra work recommended by a dealership reshef just because they think maintenance is a scam LOL. And yes I really do mean it with saying that General Motors has had valve springs break because of the carbon deposits and have valves drop into the engine.
As for using top-tier fuels that is always great idea for obvious reasons. The only downside is because of the design of direct-injection the fuel is not going to touch the intake valves so therefore carbon deposits are not 100% guaranteed to not be there.
 

AverageWhiteGuy

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I love me some amsoil, and I do use Amsoil P.I. in my vehicles, but only every 10k miles or so. I did see this youtube video where the dude used CRC Injector Clean on the air intake through the air sensor hole..

In summary, it helped like one cylinder, all the others had no improvement. Very interesting to me. The buildup in his car engine is atrocious. Why can't we have direct injection for fuel efficiency and casual port injection for cleanup? :/
 

Frenchy

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I love me some amsoil, and I do use Amsoil P.I. in my vehicles, but only every 10k miles or so. I did see this youtube video where the dude used CRC Injector Clean on the air intake through the air sensor hole..

In summary, it helped like one cylinder, all the others had no improvement. Very interesting to me. The buildup in his car engine is atrocious. Why can't we have direct injection for fuel efficiency and casual port injection for cleanup? :/
Overall cost was most likely the problem. Manufacturers will try to justify certain things when getting a product ready for the market.
 

AverageWhiteGuy

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Overall cost was most likely the problem. Manufacturers will try to justify certain things when getting a product ready for the market.
He has one of those direct injected 4 cylinder turbo VW's with 93k on the cylinders, and his injectors look absolutely terrible. The CRC Injector clean didn't really do anything, everyone says he waited too long. When he had the Mechanic do a almond cleaning, it cleared up all the carbon buildup, and improved the performance by 20%. I'm not too certain I'd spray injector cleaner into my engine every 10k miles like CRC's offering suggests...

Ironically when I had a Hyundai Genesis, I'd put in Amsoil P.I. every 10k miles or so, so when I came in for warranty work, they wouldn't put techron fuel system cleaner in my engine. Apparently the PI stuff cleans the injectors as well. It does bring a good point that a solvent along the airway for injectors, might be better than a fuel cleaner that is direct injected into a engine. I suppose this is something I can check on with one of those flexible camera probes.
 

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Why can't we have direct injection for fuel efficiency and casual port injection for cleanup? :/
A lot of newer direct injection engines have just that. Even the ECOBOOST V6's now come with secondary injectors in the intake manifold to keep the valves clean.

One thing I read a while back about induction cleaning is that it can be bad when used on Turbo engines. Basically, do it on a regular basis or not at all. If you wait too long to do it, then when it is done, you run the risk of debris getting into the turbo and causing damage.

My local dealer tried to sell me on the induction cleaning when I had my oil changed at 15k miles. It was ~250 dollars. I'm thinking about going ahead with the 20k mile oil change.
 

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I can't figure out where we would introduce something in the intake stream to do this as a service. I'm approaching 20k miles and was going to start doing every 10k induction services. Where to feed the cleaner free of sensors is my current puzzle.
 

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Take intake manifold off and spray media at the valves and vacuum them out. Valve needs to be closed.
 

berlow94

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Do all of you people realize that on a direct injected engine, a fuel additive will have absolutely zero effect on carbon build up of the intake valves?

The very principal of these engines not having port injection is that no fuel is spraying across the valves but injected directly into the combustion chamber.
Unless you spray something through your throttle body or take the intake manifold off completely and walnut shell blast it NO additive that you put in your gas tank will help reduce carbon build up on the intake valves!
 
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RavenRanger19

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I just had my dealer try to sneak this one in too. I have less than 15K on a 2019 and the ONLY thing that popped up on the inspection is the one thing not covered in the Premium Maintenance Plan. It was also buried in text message that they were going to do without consulting me. $300 for Fuel Injection Complete Service. There was no way to decline it, had to fine the Service Rep and tell him to stop.

Anyone know what a Fuel Induction and Throttle Body Cleaning Service is???

Took my vehicle to a stealership for its first oil change and rotation 10K.

They handed me a "dealer" recommended service to come back at 15K miles.

15K service Minimum $361.36, Value $361.36, Preferred $441.21

Just an oil change with a lot of nonsense, but the only thing I didn't recognize was the Induction/Throttle Body cleaning.

After going to the dealership I remember why I haven't bought a Ford in 15 years. I love the Ranger but hate trying to find a competent (honest) dealer to do service.

My oil change with appointment took 2.5 hours and they filled my tires to 37 PSI instead of 30!
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