Front diff. Seized at 27k!

[landiscarrier]

Unfortunately sometime $hit just happens.

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[AdamHarris]

it's been taken apart at least once to have the fox 2.0 install by a dealer. so there are a few things that could have happened improper install work, faulty/ damaged seal, damaged CV causing issue with diff, etc or it could have just naturally failed. nothing is 100% fail proof, reason for the warranty.

The diff itself was not taken apart for a Fox 2.0 level install.

Even in 2wd these diffs are always spinning. If its made by man it will break. Made by Dana Spicer.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

So,

2 days ago while I was driving my 2020 Ranger 4wd on the interstate, my truck started to shake VIOLENTLY!!! Then smell BAD!!! Right as I went to get off the exit ramp, it stopped, like the collision control was activated or someone slammed on just the front brakes.

The whole front axle set locked up, truck wouldn't roll or move at all!

This was on pavement in 2wd!! Is this a common issue? What could have caused the problem?

The dealer just told me " yeah the front differential assembly is shot and we need to get you a new one " I asked why, and their answer was " we don't know ". So any info, feedback or experiences of similar would be appreciated.

Hi Katie,

In my 30 years at Ford I only experienced two differential failures. I really doubt lubrication issue at the mileage you have on the truck. My guess is that a tooth or two broke off the ring gear to start the mess. Both diff failures I experienced were gear tooth failures as we diagnosed the failures... JMO.

best,
Phil

 

[P. A. Schilke]

I've got 30+ years in gearbox experience.
one time we lost a tooth off of the helical bevel gear. it just dropped off and wasn't a problem
you could hear a ticking sound every time the missing gear passed the pinion. Because it was a helical gear, two other teeth were always in contact so the missing tooth wasn't an absolute failure of the gearbox at that time.
Should further teeth have departed, then perhaps it would have come to a crushing halt like this one.
Bad lubrication, whether a lack of it, or an improper setup of the backlash, can cause micro-pitting, which creates a stress point that can lead to cracking and a loss of a tooth. At your mileage, it's still a possibility.
Other causes of tooth failures of course are a defect in manufacturing or a sudden impact. I'm not sure if the manufacture subjects their machined gears to any NDT testing, or eddy current testing to look for flaws before assembly, or if they just send it.
Once installed in the truck, sudden impacts are hard to induce, but could happen.

Since I am gearbox oriented I myself would love to peek inside and see what happened. At this stage, everything is just speculation.

Hi RP,

Your point is well taken. The last ring and pinion failure had a fracture analysis that showed material voids were the root cause. As for any testing, it is only the lapping process where the pinion and ring gear get to know each other for the first time before then are installed in an axle for the Ford produced differentials.

When we were battling the infamous Econoline Boom due to Pitchline Runout of the 8.8 rear axle, we visited Sterling Axle, the Ford Plant in Sterling Michigan. We specifically asked to see gears that did not make the cut....Much to our dismay there were none as they use everthing they made in rear axles.... Most manufacturing processes result in some scrapped parts...not at Sterling axle. So we made enough noise that we got certified stock for PLRO. Guess what...Car started bitching about NVH on the Thunderchicken (T bird). They started getting junk axles at the result of the better axles going to Econoline. Sigh!

Best,
Phil

 

[xxEMOxx]

Hi Katie,

In my 30 years at Ford I only experienced two differential failures. I really doubt lubrication issue at the mileage you have on the truck. My guess is that a tooth or two broke off the ring gear to start the mess. Both diff failures I experienced were gear tooth failures as we diagnosed the failures... JMO.

best,
Phil

Phil,

Thanks for the chiming in and the kind words, one major theory from the service writer has to do with the 4x4 not disengaging properly but saying it had in the dash, and therefore I was driving in 4wd for the last few weeks since I had last used it during some heavy rain on the farm.

I am not sure if I agree with this, as I feel like everytime I turned a corner I would have felt the chatter and resistance, not to mention that drag/hesitation at higher speeds in 4wd. I know when I first used my truck last winter there was a few times that it felt like the 4wd wasn't disengaging properly, but the dealer said it was fine, maybe just some light ice builtup in the hubs or something like that.

The other theory presented by the service writer, although I am pretty sure I would have seen on my dash is that the 4wd selector was bumped in 4wd. I will say the positioning of the selector knob, and the fact it does not have a lock is a bit annoying since I can see an accident like that happening, but I watch my dash and gauges pretty diligently and would have noticed the big orange yellow box, and dash illumination saying I'm in 4wd.

I am leaning toward improper fluid level from the factory or metallurgy issues and a void in the casting or forging of the gears themselves.

it's been taken apart at least once to have the fox 2.0 install by a dealer. so there are a few things that could have happened improper install work, faulty/ damaged seal, damaged CV causing issue with diff, etc or it could have just naturally failed. nothing is 100% fail proof, reason for the warranty.

Regarding the lift having been improperly installed, I suppose its possible, but generally the CV axles are not removed from the hubs or diff. The diff is not touched or removed at all.

Reference install video here:

The kit has been on my truck since May of last year and have at least 25-26k on it already. So if it was the issue I would like to think that it would have shown itself much earlier on along with showing other symptoms well before a sudden and abrupt total failure.

Anyway, I really appreciate everyone's input and feedback, I'm glad it happened now under the warranty period not later, although it happening at the tail end of harvest is a bit frustrating, but sh*t happens. I've got a loaner and its now just a wait for parts and repair. In the mean time, I get to fall in love with this 4Runner a bit more...... maybe. I really did/do love my truck though just a failure like this has me second guessing myself on it, but from other reviews and experiences I've seen here, most tend to be very capable off-road vehicles able to handle much more abuse then I throw at it.

 

[Langwilliams]

I'm in Ohio too. Hope you're dealer treats you right. Sounds like you're off to a good start. I've bumped mine into 4x4 2 or 3 times. You can usually tell by the way it pulls an def feel it when you do a turn in a parking lot. I've used the 4x4 a few times in snow. I've used it more trying to record my 0-60 with a drag racing app on an empty back country road. It didn't stop timing at 60 so I don't have a good time. I think it's because the phone wasn't in a mount just laying on the dash in that tray. I've hit 75ish doing that before flipping 4x4 off an letting off. I just changed the rear dif fluid, now you have me thinking I need to do the front to inspect for metal shavings in the oil. I read on here guys that have changed both didn't see anything in the front because they rarely used 4x4 (like me).

 

[66F100]

Tail end of harvest beats the head of harvest. Being down a truck with all that work ahead would have been tough.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Phil,

Thanks for the chiming in and the kind words, one major theory from the service writer has to do with the 4x4 not disengaging properly but saying it had in the dash, and therefore I was driving in 4wd for the last few weeks since I had last used it during some heavy rain on the farm.

I am not sure if I agree with this, as I feel like everytime I turned a corner I would have felt the chatter and resistance, not to mention that drag/hesitation at higher speeds in 4wd. I know when I first used my truck last winter there was a few times that it felt like the 4wd wasn't disengaging properly, but the dealer said it was fine, maybe just some light ice builtup in the hubs or something like that.

The other theory presented by the service writer, although I am pretty sure I would have seen on my dash is that the 4wd selector was bumped in 4wd. I will say the positioning of the selector knob, and the fact it does not have a lock is a bit annoying since I can see an accident like that happening, but I watch my dash and gauges pretty diligently and would have noticed the big orange yellow box, and dash illumination saying I'm in 4wd.

I am leaning toward improper fluid level from the factory or metallurgy issues and a void in the casting or forging of the gears themselves.




Regarding the lift having been improperly installed, I suppose its possible, but generally the CV axles are not removed from the hubs or diff. The diff is not touched or removed at all.

Reference install video here:

The kit has been on my truck since May of last year and have at least 25-26k on it already. So if it was the issue I would like to think that it would have shown itself much earlier on along with showing other symptoms well before a sudden and abrupt total failure.

Anyway, I really appreciate everyone's input and feedback, I'm glad it happened now under the warranty period not later, although it happening at the tail end of harvest is a bit frustrating, but sh*t happens. I've got a loaner and its now just a wait for parts and repair. In the mean time, I get to fall in love with this 4Runner a bit more...... maybe. I really did/do love my truck though just a failure like this has me second guessing myself on it, but from other reviews and experiences I've seen here, most tend to be very capable off-road vehicles able to handle much more abuse then I throw at it.

Hi Katie,

When on pavement in 4x4 mod and make any turns, you will get a bucking of the truck that is very noticeable so the stuck in 4x4 mode is unlikely. Again, low lube would have likely shown its face at a much earlier time in my opinion. I think a defect in either the pinion teeth or the more likely ring gear teeth would be root cause, but being an armchair diagnosis, I am just speculating like the rest of of the forum members. The take away with the number of vehicles I have driven over the years, I cannot even begin to estimate the number but it is a lot of vehicles, and only two diff failures should give forum readers confidence that this is not a systemic problem but a highly unusual but unfortunate issue with your truck.

For those of you that want to diagnose or learn of the diagnosis so you can prevent it from happening would be well advised to check your diff gear oil...simple check and easy to add fluid or if you wish, change out the gear oil.

Good luck with the repair Katie!

best,
Phil

 

[Joeiconic]

Unfortunately sometime $hit just happens.

Best answer yet.

 

[DJulif]

Just seems like you got a bad diff, Given what you said, you've done nothing wrong.
Unfortunate situation that could have been dangerous, but on the flip slide this should be covered under warranty and unlikely to happen again.


As to why it would only roll backward, hard to say. Probably just how the pieces of debris ended up resting inside the differential casing.

You are correct on the debris. Had this very scenario on a DANA 60 I built. Pinion gear failure, broken tooth stuck between the ring and housing. Would not go forward, just in reverse with intense grinding noise. Glad it is handled for you under warranty.

 

[xxEMOxx]

Update on my truck:

Warranty repairs were completed today, new front diff assembly. The front pinion gear was broken, but there was apparently alot of play in the "ring gear" i think they said. When the front axles were removed and the tech believes it was improperly backlashed, as everything was extremely loose so it finally bound then broke.

That's what I was told anyway, the repair was handled in a timely manner and with a complete new front diff. assembly. This is an issue they say they haven't ever seen before and something they pretty confident was not user error

 

[Langwilliams]

Well that's my story an I'm sticking to it.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Update on my truck:

Warranty repairs were completed today, new front diff assembly. The front pinion gear was broken, but there was apparently alot of play in the "ring gear" i think they said. When the front axles were removed and the tech believes it was improperly backlashed, as everything was extremely loose so it finally bound then broke.

That's what I was told anyway, the repair was handled in a timely manner and with a complete new front diff. assembly. This is an issue they say they haven't ever seen before and something they pretty confident was not user error

Hi Katie,

Glad you got it fixed! So cause was too much back lash and failure was broken teeth. Dana QC lapse would be root cause..

best,
Phil

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