DRL's are DOA

[Motorpsychology]

That right there is the reason the US does not have a national DRL law like Canada has. It was the motorcycle lobby that got it shot down. I have been a cycle rider for 50 plus years and beleive me being the only ones on the road with your headlights on does not make you any more visible. I have had people I can see look at me and still pull out in front of me. People just don't look/see something the size of a single cycle, whether it has lights on or not. In my years of riding, I have learned that you have to be aware of every other vehicle near you and expect them not to see you and do dumb things. You have to constantly be planning evasive maneuvers. If anything being a cycle driver has made me a more observant and safer driver no matter what I am driving.

Big 10-4. I too, have been riding since the Nixon administration, and drove OTR semi for 25 years/3.5Mmi. I think the "tiptoe principle"* is factor to some degree, but one aspect of having DRLs, either headlight or led accent, is that our eyes will register bright, moving light faster than a vehicle that is stationary or with no lights. Yes, everybody have them on, but we perceive their movement going in whatever direction and speed to a greater extent than a vehicle that is parked, or driving with no lights.

As far as motorcycles go, a single headlight is more difficult to pick out of all the other traffic. The railroads found that a portion of the car vs train wrecks were caused because the driver didn't think the train was approaching so fast. They found that mounting two lower auxiliary lights forming a triangle pattern, the locomotive's approaching speed and distance is more easily perceived.

The same principle can be applied to motorcycles. It make a bike more easily distinguished from car traffic, sooner than a bike with just a single headlight..

*Tiptoe principle: The people in the second row watching a parade stood on their tiptoes in order to see better, the people behind them couldn't see better regardless.

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[Big Blue]

Big 10-4. I too, have been riding since the Nixon administration, and drove OTR semi for 25 years/3.5Mmi. I think the "tiptoe principle"* is factor to some degree, but one aspect of having DRLs, either headlight or led accent, is that our eyes will register bright, moving light faster than a vehicle that is stationary or with no lights. Yes, everybody have them on, but we perceive their movement going in whatever direction and speed to a greater extent than a vehicle that is parked, or driving with no lights.

As far as motorcycles go, a single headlight is more difficult to pick out of all the other traffic. The railroads found that a portion of the car vs train wrecks were caused because the driver didn't think the train was approaching so fast. They found that mounting two lower auxiliary lights forming a triangle pattern, the locomotive's approaching speed and distance is more easily perceived.

The same principle can be applied to motorcycles. It make a bike more easily distinguished from car traffic, sooner than a bike with just a single headlight..

*Tiptoe principle: The people in the second row watching a parade stood on their tiptoes in order to see better, the people behind them couldn't see better regardless.

I tend to agree. The other issue is the size of the motorcycle, people are use to seeing something at least as big as a car. So, they can't judge the distance to the motorcycle. They think it is farther away than it really is. The extra lights may help with judging speed though.

 

[LaBalbe]

That right there is the reason the US does not have a national DRL law like Canada has. It was the motorcycle lobby that got it shot down. I have been a cycle rider for 50 plus years and beleive me being the only ones on the road with your headlights on does not make you any more visible. I have had people I can see look at me and still pull out in front of me. People just don't look/see something the size of a single cycle, whether it has lights on or not. In my years of riding, I have learned that you have to be aware of every other vehicle near you and expect them not to see you and do dumb things. You have to constantly be planning evasive maneuvers. If anything being a cycle driver has made me a more observant and safer driver no matter what I am driving.

Agreed, people don't nearly appreciate how much space a bike (motorcycle or bicycle for that matter) actually needs on the road to stay safe, and that's a whole different problem going back to my previous "less is more" comment. I absolutely agree, though, that having ridden in my younger days makes me a better driver today, because I learned to be "road aware" when I WAS the airbag for the vehicle, rather than being protected by it.

 

[LaBalbe]

that's a great excuse for never doing anything, I guess

No, it's a recognition that not all changes are for the better.

 

[Colo_Ranger]

Many times the tech working on our vehicles at the dealer will turn them off. Sometimes it takes me a few days to realize it.

I don’t understand why they turn them off but it drives me nuts.

 

[VAMike]

No, it's a recognition that not all changes are for the better.

I'm fairly certain that fixing a known UI misfeature is for the better, especially since it would require no new technology, only a change in the implementation of the technology. I know it's really cool to be aggressively cynical, but things are rarely perfect the first time and in the real world it's necessary to iterate toward better solutions. And in fact, that's what's actually being done in other countries: new rules in Canada require one of the following:
- tail lights that come on automatically with daytime running lights
- headlights, tail lights, and side marker lights that turn on automatically in the dark
- a dashboard that stays dark to alert the driver to turn on the lights

 

[VAMike]

Many times the tech working on our vehicles at the dealer will turn them off. Sometimes it takes me a few days to realize it.

Yes, that's is the only time my car isn't set to auto, and every single dealer (across multiple makes) seems to do it. I cannot figure out why.

 

[LaBalbe]

I'm fairly certain that fixing a known UI misfeature is for the better, especially since it would require no new technology, only a change in the implementation of the technology. I know it's really cool to be aggressively cynical, but things are rarely perfect the first time and in the real world it's necessary to iterate toward better solutions. And in fact, that's what's actually being done in other countries: new rules in Canada require one of the following:
- tail lights that come on automatically with daytime running lights
- headlights, tail lights, and side marker lights that turn on automatically in the dark
- a dashboard that stays dark to alert the driver to turn on the lights

Oh, how some love to dismiss those who see that things aren't for the better as "edgy cynics"; I don't care about "being cool", and I'm not trying to be. I'm simply pointing out that there were flaws in the concept of DRLs, which have frankly taken far too long to be addressed. Canada's "Motor Vehicle Safety Act" mandated that all vehicle sold or imported into Canada after Dec. 1989 had to have DRLs, and they're only NOW thinking about linking them to the tail-lights?? How does it take 35 years to recognize such a glaring UI flaw? For the record, changes 1 & 3 of those you list, I think actually ARE for the better, since they'll deal with the whole "running dark" issue. So will number 2, but I'm not necessarily in favor of automating everything, as people will loose the skill set to do it themselves; it's a little too "Cancel Culture" for my taste.

 

[airline tech]

Yes, that's is the only time my car isn't set to auto, and every single dealer (across multiple makes) seems to do it. I cannot figure out why.

It has to do with the battery drain, every time the door is opened (it triggers) the perimeter entry / exit lighting (timed)
So, if in the (off) position this does not happen

So, depending on what maintenance is being done, this may require the door to be opened and closed multiple times (if in a service bay with a lift) where you are unable to just leave the door opened.

If I am doing anything cabin related for a length of time, I turn the headlights off & flip the overhead switch to off as well to kill the courtesy lights (dome)
It's easy to forget the headlight switch - is off

 

[Big Blue]

Changes 1 & 3 of those you list, I think actually ARE for the better, since they'll deal with the whole "running dark" issue. So will number 2, but I'm not necessarily in favor of automating everything, as people will loose the skill set to do it themselves; it's a little too "Cancel Culture" for my taste.

The biggest problem is most of the skill set has already been lost. If it wasn't for turning on your high beams how many people would know the left stalk on the steering wheel even exists. Do they even teach proper turn signal usage in drivers ed anymore? Only thing with that is you can't automate it.

 

[got3fords]

It has to do with the battery drain, every time the door is opened (it triggers) the perimeter entry / exit lighting (timed)
So, if in the (off) position this does not happen

So, depending on what maintenance is being done, this may require the door to be opened and closed multiple times (if in a service bay with a lift) where you are unable to just leave the door opened.

I just assumed they didn't want the lights coming on all the time while the vehicle is in a poorly lit workshop. But that explanation also makes sense.

 

[LaBalbe]

The biggest problem is most of the skill set has already been lost. If it wasn't for turning on your high beams how many people would know the left stalk on the steering wheel even exists. Do they even teach proper turn signal usage in drivers ed anymore? Only thing with that is you can't automate it.

All the more reason to make driver's exams MORE stringent, not less so, and to stop catering to the "least competent denominator". I'm told that NC has done away with parallel parking on their exam, and now we've got cars that can park themselves, although a few members here have had their trucks damaged because of a "self-un-parking" car. I'm not inherently against tech, although I do wish they'd go back to beta-testing it before releasing it to the consumer public, rather than using "early adopters" to do that instead.

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