Driveshaft Vibration Question

peterson1604

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So tomorrow I'm bringing my 2019 FX4 in for the dealer to complete TSB 2277 and 2339 for the vibration issues. It was hardly noticeable until my dealer installed the Ford Tuned Fox 2.0 leveling kit and the 255/75R17 tires.

Regarding the drivetrain angle measurement, I'm wondering if it would help if I had them lower the front 1/2 to an a full inch, if clearance allow, to better align the driveshaft? I'm curious because the new Tremor has a minor lift but it's not the full 2 inches of the Ford Fox lift.

I'm hoping our resident expert @P. A. Schilke is reading the forum tonight. :)

Thoughts?
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P. A. Schilke

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So tomorrow I'm bringing my 2019 FX4 in for the dealer to complete TSB 2277 and 2339 for the vibration issues. It was hardly noticeable until my dealer installed the Ford Tuned Fox 2.0 leveling kit and the 255/75R17 tires.

Regarding the drivetrain angle measurement, I'm wondering if it would help if I had them lower the front 1/2 to an a full inch, if clearance allow, to better align the driveshaft? I'm curious because the new Tremor has a minor lift but it's not the full 2 inches of the Ford Fox lift.

I'm hoping our resident expert @P. A. Schilke is reading the forum tonight. :)

Thoughts?
HI Scott,

Let the dealership measure this as it is now. lowering it before measuring without evaluation of the change for the vibration does not show what shim might be used if any on the lift as the truck is now. If it is found that the shim install is not effective, you can direct the dealer to lower the truck and see if there is an improvement or a further degradation. If the former, leave it lowered a bit, if a degradation, then you, know the dealer has to remeasure as something is wrong with the first shimming operation. I feel this gives you a couple more tools in your tool box than the other way.... You wished to level the truck, so see if they can fix it in the leveled configuration, otherwise...lower the truck and see if it helps...JMO.

Good Luck!

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
 
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peterson1604

peterson1604

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HI Scott,

Let the dealership measure this as it is now. lowering it before measuring without evaluation of the change for the vibration does not show what shim might be used if any on the lift as the truck is now. If it is found that the shim install is not effective, you can direct the dealer to lower the truck and see if there is an improvement or a further degradation. If the former, leave it lowered a bit, if a degradation, then you, know the dealer has to remeasure as something is wrong with the first shimming operation. I feel this gives you a couple more tools in your tool box than the other way.... You wished to level the truck, so see if they can fix it in the leveled configuration, otherwise...lower the truck and see if it helps...JMO.

Good Luck!

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
Thanks Phil, I greatly appreciate your input. If you're ever in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan let me know.

Scott
 

P. A. Schilke

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Thanks Phil, I greatly appreciate your input. If you're ever in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan let me know.

Scott
Hi Scott,

Been in the UP many times....Now with the RV only a west based and daughter in Troy Michigan (Detroit area) probably not going to be in the UP. However...never say Never.... Both the wife and I love the UP!

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
 
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peterson1604

peterson1604

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Hi Scott,

Been in the UP many times....Now with the RV only a west based and daughter in Troy Michigan (Detroit area) probably not going to be in the UP. However...never say Never.... Both the wife and I love the UP!

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
The UP is special and unique. I have a daughter going to Eastern Michigan in their Occupational Therapy grad program so my wife and I get to the Detroit area a couple times a year.

Scott
 


P. A. Schilke

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The UP is special and unique. I have a daughter going to Eastern Michigan in their Occupational Therapy grad program so my wife and I get to the Detroit area a couple times a year.

Scott
Hi Scott,

We just booked our flights to Mi for mid summer for two weeks....we do not visit in winter anymore as to us 60° is freezing... :)

Best,
Phil Schilke
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Frenchy

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What I suspect is the vibration is not from the leveling kit as the leveling kit does not mess with the height of the rear what so ever. What could have happened is the alignment not being set right. I have ran into this already and have mentioned in other threads that you need someone of your own weigh sitting in the truck to set toe on a lifted or leveled truck.
 
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peterson1604

peterson1604

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HI Scott,

Let the dealership measure this as it is now. lowering it before measuring without evaluation of the change for the vibration does not show what shim might be used if any on the lift as the truck is now. If it is found that the shim install is not effective, you can direct the dealer to lower the truck and see if there is an improvement or a further degradation. If the former, leave it lowered a bit, if a degradation, then you, know the dealer has to remeasure as something is wrong with the first shimming operation. I feel this gives you a couple more tools in your tool box than the other way.... You wished to level the truck, so see if they can fix it in the leveled configuration, otherwise...lower the truck and see if it helps...JMO.

Good Luck!

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
Just picked it up from the dealership and they are ordering me a entire new drive shaft. They said the alignment is off which is causing the vibration. They said there are stickers that show the alignment from the front to the rear half of the drive shaft and they should line up perfectly but they are not aligned on mine. Sounds like a reasonable explanation to me, and they showed me up on the lift so I could see it. Hopefully this will fix the problem when they replace it in the coming weeks.

Luckily I have a great dealership to work with and a good bunch of guys ?
 

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Just picked it up from the dealership and they are ordering me a entire new drive shaft. They said the alignment is off which is causing the vibration. They said there are stickers that show the alignment from the front to the rear half of the drive shaft and they should line up perfectly but they are not aligned on mine. Sounds like a reasonable explanation to me, and they showed me up on the lift so I could see it. Hopefully this will fix the problem when they replace it in the coming weeks.

Luckily I have a great dealership to work with and a good bunch of guys ?
Keep us informed on the outcome. Never saw alignment stickers on my driveshaft. Hope they are not talking about the phasing of the rear shaft that we all have and has been discussed at great length here.
 
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peterson1604

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So it's been a bit due to another issue with a module they had to order that was on backorder. Thankfully my dealer gave me a loaner the entire time and does a great job taking care of me.

Anyway they installed a new driveshaft and the vibration is still there. One thing I noticed test driving it this morning is that it seems to happen at all speeds. The dealer did road balance the tires while it was in so they should be good. When I put it in neutral while on the highway the vibration is still there. I'm assuming the drive shaft stops spinning when the truck is put in neutral? If so am I correct thinking it might be the new Firestones causing the vibration?

@P. A. Schilke am I thinking correctly?

Scott
 

P. A. Schilke

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So it's been a bit due to another issue with a module they had to order that was on backorder. Thankfully my dealer gave me a loaner the entire time and does a great job taking care of me.

Anyway they installed a new driveshaft and the vibration is still there. One thing I noticed test driving it this morning is that it seems to happen at all speeds. The dealer did road balance the tires while it was in so they should be good. When I put it in neutral while on the highway the vibration is still there. I'm assuming the drive shaft stops spinning when the truck is put in neutral? If so am I correct thinking it might be the new Firestones causing the vibration?

@P. A. Schilke am I thinking correctly?

Scott
Hi Scott,

No...the driveshaft still spins when you are in neutral so it just tells you it is not related to power to the driveline or no power. The chance both drivelines are out of balance is unlikely and points to something else. Key here is to determine the frequency of this vibration which dealers can do these days with their NVH equipment. Time to stop parts swapping and do a bit of diagnostic work in my opinion. Frequency will tell you if it is driveline or wheel tire. Otherwise it is just a SWAG as to what is the root cause...

Good luck!

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired
 

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P. A. Schlike is right, as always. If the vibration is accompanied by a sound (they all are) and you can measure it with your phone, you can find the frequency and then determine the order. Yet better do it with proper equipment, which implies a few accelerometers or a sound brush.
 

Porpoise Hork

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@peterson1604 Have you tried installing shims above the center bearing and the mount? Many trucks with a two piece drive shaft are very sensitive to changes to the driveshaft angle and can cause vibrations. The AU market has been dealing with this for a while now and they have shim kits available to correct it. The Tacomas also suffer form this. They also have a center bearing drop kit that runs about $20-30 and is the number one recommended fix.

https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/vibration-at-take-off.2092/page-7

The short of it is from researching it Ford installed taller leaf spring mounts and added a 1" block on the NA ranger rear suspension that the AU/EU versions do not have. This raised the rear by about 2" but failed to compensate for this in the driveshaft angle creating the vibration.

Get some old school alignment shims and start with 1/8" on each side, then increase until the vibration stops. Youy can probably use the stock bolts up to 1/4-3/8" but anything more than that you will need to get longer bolts. Any grade 8 bolts will do but I'd stick with stainless, as well as lock washers to be sure. It took 5/8" worth of shims to completely eliminate the vibration on my truck. It may take more or less for yours.

Another thing to check is the transmission fluid level. Mine was nearly 2 qts low from the factory and likely sucking up air causing the torque converter to cavitate. Once I had the dealer check the trans and top it off the minor intermittent shudder off the line ceased after driving about 100 miles. Since the shims and topping off the tranny it's smooth as can be off the line.
 
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peterson1604

peterson1604

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@peterson1604 Have you tried installing shims above the center bearing and the mount? Many trucks with a two piece drive shaft are very sensitive to changes to the driveshaft angle and can cause vibrations. The AU market has been dealing with this for a while now and they have shim kits available to correct it. The Tacomas also suffer form this. They also have a center bearing drop kit that runs about $20-30 and is the number one recommended fix.

https://www.ranger5g.com/forum/threads/vibration-at-take-off.2092/page-7

The short of it is from researching it Ford installed taller leaf spring mounts and added a 1" block on the NA ranger rear suspension that the AU/EU versions do not have. This raised the rear by about 2" but failed to compensate for this in the driveshaft angle creating the vibration.

Get some old school alignment shims and start with 1/8" on each side, then increase until the vibration stops. You can probably use the stock bolts up to 1/4-3/8" but anything more than that you will need to get longer bolts. Any grade 8 bolts will do but I'd stick with stainless, as well as lock washers to be sure. It took 5/8" worth of shims to completely eliminate the vibration on my truck. It may take more or less for yours.

Another thing to check is the transmission fluid level. Mine was nearly 2 qts low from the factory and likely sucking up air causing the torque converter to cavitate. Once I had the dealer check the trans and top it off the minor intermittent shudder off the line ceased after driving about 100 miles. Since the shims and topping off the tranny it's smooth as can be off the line.
Yes I have, I saw your info on another post and you and I talked about it a bit. It's a process and I've learned that a 5 minute drive isn't enough. I'm currently at 9/16 of an inch and it's feeling the best so far but I just upped it from 1/2 last night. I'm at the point where I get hardly any noticeable vibration at highway speed and most of it is in the 30 to 40 mph at RPM's below 1400. I'll give this a couple days but so far so good where it's at. For reference I have the Fox 2.0 Lift set at 2 inches up front and I'm running 255/75R17 tires which are 32.1 inches which adds another 3/4 of an inch up front and to the back. I did get longer stainless bolts and lock washers per your info and Phil's info on minimum of 3 threads exposed.

Thanks for the tip on checking the tranny fluid, looks like I either need to get under the vehicle or wait another 3500 miles until my next oil change and have the dealer do it. How much of a pain is it to crawl under and do it yourself?

Thanks for all the great feedback.

Scott
 

Porpoise Hork

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Checking the tranny fluid level is a bit of a PIA. First it needs to be at operating temperature (205-215F Use a non contact temp probe to check.) and the truck needs to be level. The dipstick plug is on the passenger side towards the front about 2-3 inches away from the exhaust pipe. Be aware the dipstick plug is likely going to be very tight and will take some leverage to break it loose.

This video is for a AU market model ranger but it's basically the same thing.


Once you get the dipstick plug out use this chart to see if it's correctly filled.
1609939834992-png.png


If I remember correctly when I checked mine it was just barely above 6. Many of the Mustang guys with the same transmission as us have reported all sorts of issues with the 10R80 with many reporting they were underfilled from the factory.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...tions-to-harsh-or-no-shift-conditions.135463/
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