CarID Bait-N-Switch Scam

[Mokume]

Hi Big D,

Castellated Nuts and Cotter pins are a PITA on the assembly line. Run the nut on to torque and the hole and castellations do not align, so manually rotate the nut in the tightening direction until achieving alignment and then insert the cotter pin and bend. Do not know what kind of nut the 5G Ranger uses but I can think this is a real boon for the assembly plant I do know that torque prevailing nuts are supposed to be good for 5 on - offs. Do not recall any use of one time nuts in my days at Ford, but there may have been some...

Here is a Castellated Nut/Cotter Pin back story. The E450 Econoline stripped chassis has been favored by RV Class C and ambulance manufactures. We kept having occasional problems on Airzona durability where the tie rod would disconnect from the steering arm on the left front wheel spindle. Since there was ample caster steering was not totally lost and the noise and tire smoke from tie rod resulted in warning signs for a driver. We never had any field complaints ever, but on durability we had this issue. Having Chassis Design Analysis, I decided to see if I could figure out what was going on with this issue that was only durability course and only the Silver creek portion where all the failures occurred. Since there was no castellated nut or cotter pin to analyze, we decided to drag the durability course with strong magnets and collect a castellated nut for examination...unfortunately we could never find a castellated nut, so the mystery continued. I had all the E450 cotter pins tethered with safety wire and had one of my engineers set up a lab test to duplicate and this test ran for 6 months with no incidents. Still majorly puzzled by this I had my engineer compare the tie rod steering arm joint for F450 through F150, which did not have any issues. What the engineer found was that the E450 steering arm had the least taper engagement with the tie rod taper. Ah Ha! we had a lead so the engineer brought me a Econoline steering knuckle and I noticed that there was a very agressive machined surface on the steering arm...a very deep cut to achieve a flat surface for the castellated nut. So we headed up to the design engineer and asked if this cut could be lessened to give us more taper engagement. The design engineer when to the supplier who indicated that this could be done. We got parts for the durability E450s and the revised spindle when in to production. We never had another tie rod disconnect, so the tape engage improvement was the fix. Even though we never had any field complaints, I still felt relieved we had identified the root cause and had a fix that worked.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Phil,
You always amaze me with your engineering experiences while with Ford, have you considered writing a book, or is one in the making?

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[2019hotpepper4x4]

Hi Folks,

You can bad mouth Ford all you want but the fact is the center tie downs were deleted by the Plant Vehicle Team as a Material Cost Reduction. If you can get your dealer to provide them, great! However this action took place some time in the 2019 Model year.

Agree, if they deleted them form your trick via manufacture date. Etc. then what do you have to complain about? I asked about them and my dealer added them no charge, good for me, but if they won’t and it wasn’t included why do you feel owed? It’s an add on at that point, no?

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Phil,
You always amaze me with your engineering experiences while with Ford, have you considered writing a book, or is one in the making?

Hi Jeff,

Hi Jeff,

Probably better to just share here for forum members. Glad you find these back stories interesting!
I thought I would have exhausted them but they just keep popping up in my head.

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[Mokume]

Hi Folks,

You can bad mouth Ford all you want but the fact is the center tie downs were deleted by the Plant Vehicle Team as a Material Cost Reduction. If you can get your dealer to provide them, great! However this action took place some time in the 2019 Model year.

When I took delivery of my 2020 Lariat in January, I nonchalantly asked the salesperson about the deleted tie-downs, to my surprise he came back with a document referring to the running change.
I certainly didn't push the issue, was not expecting to anyway. Ditto with the hood to fender alignment issue of maybe 2 millimetres, I'll live with it and not lose sleep over it.
Here in Hawaii we commonly use the word "manini" (which actually refers to a small, reef dwelling fish) as being petty or inconsequential.

 

[Mokume]

Hi Jeff,

Hi Jeff,

Probably better to just share here for forum members. Glad you find these back stories interesting!
I thought I would have exhausted them but they just keep popping up in my head.

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Pity, your stories are fascinating.
You probably were not with Ford when someone decided to change from metal wing nuts for the air filter cover to nylon? More often that not the nut would fuse itself to the stud, resulting in the stud pulling out of the air horn when you went to unscrew it. This was circa '75-'76 302's, perhaps some 351M's too.

 

[JimH]

When I bought my 2020 XLT in January, I noticed the missing tiedowns. I asked the Sales Manager about them, and he ordered me a set. No hassle, no charge!! Bozard Ford in St Augustine, Florida -- great dealership with great people!!

 

[Mokume]

Hi Folks,

On my watch for Ranger, I told the engineers relative to MCR actions, if the customer can see or feel it...leave it alone. We had a Material Cost Reduction called single point crash sensor. This centrally located sensor was on the top of the transmission tunnel under the dash. It replaced three sensors and wiring located at the bottom of the horse collar (Radiator Support). It saved about $25 a vehicle and was a quality improvement. About $1 M engineering and prove our costs including crashing a few vehicles into the wall. Well. $25/Vehicle X 340,000 vehicles netted the company $7.5M and was a customer improvement as well. This is a win win situation. The center tie down delete was a mistake in my book, but hey...arm chair quarterback here....

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

LOL!
When you refer to the support as a "horse collar" did this come about because of the Edsel's grille design? I remember some people referring to the center section of that car's grille as such...

 

[Gizmokid2005]

Funny, i Ordered a set of 2, plus 4 bolts from my dealer 21st of May, they came29th of may. All installed. 10.58 per hook, dealer gave them at 8.46, 6 bucks a bolt x4 (list 7.50)
All in, all done 44.50.

I just ordered all of mine at the end of May (5/18 order, 5/27 pickup):

Hooks: $7.19/ea
Bolts: $5.10/ea

Total: $34.78 + tax.

It's crazy that the bolts were almost 50% more per tie-down than the hooks themselves.

The hooks are showing significantly more expensive right now though, $36.75/ea, but the bolts are the same price.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

Pity, your stories are fascinating.
You probably were not with Ford when someone decided to change from metal wing nuts for the air filter cover to nylon? More often that not the nut would fuse itself to the stud, resulting in the stud pulling out of the air horn when you went to unscrew it. This was circa '75-'76 302's, perhaps some 351M's too.

Hi Jeff,

I was with Ford when the air cleaner nut was introduced...We hated them and all engineers kept a couple dozed in our desk drawer to replace on the prototypes as the nylon ones sucked... I hired in on Jan 3 of 1973.

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[P. A. Schilke]

LOL!
When you refer to the support as a "horse collar" did this come about because of the Edsel's grille design? I remember some people referring to the center section of that car's grille as such...

Hi Jeff,

The first few years of my employ at Ford was learning the terminology and the acronyms. It was always called Horse collar. Maybe from Edsel, but likely before that to. Things like Pork Chop Bracket or B&CPS...same part. Brake and Clutch Pedal Support bracket...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[Mokume]

Hi Jeff,

The first few years of my employ at Ford was learning the terminology and the acronyms. It was always called Horse collar. Maybe from Edsel, but likely before that to. Things like Pork Chop Bracket or B&CPS...same part. Brake and Clutch Pedal Support bracket...

Best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

Aloha Phil,
Ditto for me when I started with the fire department.
The term "frequent flyer" was reserved for certain individuals, usually a hypochondriac who would activate the emergency response system (calling 911) for a perceived medical issue. I remember responding to a medical call because the person had a nosebleed, but, none the less, we had to respond because it was a medical call. Mind you, I am not making light of any emergency, by all means do call 911 when needed.
Another is "summer fun", this refers to brush fires on the dry and arid west section of Oahu which would normally start when school let out for summer break.
Lastly there's "PUHA", which means pack up-haul ass in which the victim(s) had suffered major medical trauma and needed hospital medical attention pronto. This was usually the result of a major auto collision and blunt force trauma caused by contact with the steering wheel or any other un-yielding components within the passenger compartment.

 

[mustang marty]

A little back story for you. My 2020 Ranger Lariat only came with four bed tie-downs. Wanting to add another pair since the bed has provisions for it I went searching for the parts. I was astounded when I found them as being priced at $26 or more. Not really wanting to pay that much for them, especially when just a few short months ago they had been under $6.00 at the dealer. So I went a spelunking for them to find the best deal where I located them as advertised for $9.47 each. Still rather high for what they are, but hey, it's cheaper than $26+ right? So I ordered a pair of them and went about my day. A few days pass and I receive this email from CarID...

They claim that these tie-down bars, that are nothing more than a piece of bar stock with 4 bends and a couple holes in them should be a whopping $46.42 EACH!!! They actually wanted me to pay an additional $73.36 for these things. This is despite the fact that their website at the time and still at the time of posting has them clearly marked at $9.74!!!

https://www.carid.com/ford-oe/rear-tie-down-hook-mpn-kb3z21550a74a.html?singleid=2549880968

So I called in and spent close to 45 minutes on the phone with them attempting to get the phone rep to understand the concept of Bait-n-Switch as well as getting a supervisor or manager on the phone about the issue. The rep after placing me on the third lengthy hold claiming she spoke with a supervisor instead of escalating the call as I had requested no less than 5 times, stated that they looked into the available margin for these and would not be able to sell them at the clearly marked price. She then proceeded to ask me if I was willing to pay additional $52.45 as they are priced at $35.96 each. Not the $9.74 as marked OR the $46.42 that was stated in the email.. As far as I can tell they are simply pulling random dollar amounts out of their collective butts and hope that people will just say sure while they drool on themselves after expending the minuscule available mental faculties to determine if said item is worth the additional money.

Needless to say I told the rep what I though of that and where they could collectively stuff it and canceled the order as well as contesting the charge on my CC as well.

I guess I'll pull one of my other tie-down bars off and see if I can find something that matches the bolt hole distance at the local hardware store, Or make a pair of them out of some bar stock, a bench-vice, and a drill...

Had a problem with Carid when they sent wind deflectors for crew cab when I owned super cab . Once I told a manager they did the wrong Carid made good and then some more . But at first they did blame me for a problem on their website .

 

[Fjoyner]

Looks like we missed the boat on the (much) cheaper prices on those. As I recently ordered them and bit the bullet on the high cost now. Yes, I checked around and the best deal I could find was on this site.
Chalk it up for supply and demand.

I thought we were pushing the narrative that in their own promo flyer, it clearly states 6 tie-downs in the bed. I don't care enough, but that's what was advertised as I understand it, and yes, I have the color glossy, but I'm sure there's a bailout 'subject to change' clause for them.

 

[P. A. Schilke]

I thought we were pushing the narrative that in their own promo flyer, it clearly states 6 tie-downs in the bed. I don't care enough, but that's what was advertised as I understand it, and yes, I have the color glossy, but I'm sure there's a bailout 'subject to change' clause for them.

Hi Forrest,

Yep...a subject to change clause

best,
Phil Schilke
Ranger Vehicle Engineering
Ford Motor Co. Retired

 

[VAMike]

I thought we were pushing the narrative that in their own promo flyer, it clearly states 6 tie-downs in the bed. I don't care enough, but that's what was advertised as I understand it, and yes, I have the color glossy, but I'm sure there's a bailout 'subject to change' clause for them.

Yes, there's a disclaimer. It's really troubling for all those who purchased a 20-40 thousand dollar truck specifically because of the number of tie downs listed in the brochure, finished all the paperwork and got home, then were devestated when someone pointed out that there were only 4.

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