[Resolved] Transmission downshift at highway speeds and then it wigged out.

[Domino77]

I want to respond to your original question. I realize that various owners can resolve, if only temporarily or permanent, issues with their vehicles, but I believe my experience aligns with your symptoms better. The rough shifting is a Ford defect (due to poor design) in the 10R60/10R80/10R80 MHT transmissions. However, they never recalled it because it wasn't enough issue to keep the truck from running or being reliable but only worsened with wear. The TSB from ford is 23-2250 put out on August 14, 2023.
I purchased my 2021 truck, used in 2023, with only 6400 miles on it. Even then, I noticed a bit of a rough shift now and then, especially when it's cold, coming in and out of reverse. The rough shifting would mostly for me, come when coasting down and then trying to suddenly accelerate again, but again, not always. I let it go hoping for the best. This year it has become more frequent and harsher. I live in the D.C. metroplex area and my truck during a stop (in a parking lot thank goodness), begin erratically searching for a gear and then stopped and the wrench indicator in my dash lit up. When this happens, the computer will limit the power in the truck to keep you from trying to drive it. It seems to have reset itself after I shut off the vehicle and let it set for 30 minutes, got back in and then started it; it ran normal again. That was enough for me to go straight to Ford with it and open a service ticket. I also printed off the service bulletin and told them that what I experienced was exactly what Ford described in the TSB. The TSB describes exactly how to fix each model and parts needed. It technically will be a transmission overhaul with updated revisions of parts. I turned my truck in this past Wednesday and will pick it up by tomorrow. I will follow up with the results of the overhaul. My vehicle has 56k miles on it now, still within power train warranty. They gave me no issues or flak about the problem and assigned me a loaner vehicle in the meantime. I want to say, that I have extended warranty with this vehicle, and recommend it for all. I think we all like our Rangers, they are so nice to drive and have plenty of power. I hope this gets me beyond any major issues.

I appreciate the reply LCR. The transmission really had 0 issues in my opinion before my highway incident. From further inquiry with a Ford tech friend is that the extremely low battery condition, which went dead completely a few days later, combined with the sudden surge of power needed when my truck downshifted at highway speeds and the electrical supply for the surge was not there due to extremely weak battery. So, the subsequent and sudden malfunction of the vehicle powertrain (per the code) was the result of the lack of electrical need. I now have a persistence "slip" when shifting at low speeds. Not to mention I happen to do a trans fluid change just before all of this and I have learned that there is a definite need to do the relearn and follow a set procedure to correctly relearn. After the trans fluid change and new battery, I had not done this and have yet to try it. All this combined with the fact that, YES, these transmissions have an inherent defect/faulty parts. My issue is no extended warranty let alone it is modded and wouldn't be covered anyhow. So, I am dead in the water in regard to Ford repairing it "under warranty" I am at 76k miles just over the 75k manufacturer warranty. So, I am looking at a 7K to 10K repair or trade it in on a Raptor Ranger. I wish. Last comment, this batter issue has me very upset, my fault yes, but out of all the warnings and messages and everything these trucks give you never did a message pop up and say "check battery" only a tiny amber battery symbol at the bottom of the small digital screen above the steering column. Seems a very weak point. that highway issue could have stopped my truck dead in the middle of the highway.

So needless to say I am at a loss my truck is limping everyday so I think I need to trade it in but I still love it, I can't part with it. Minus the transmission everything about this truck is great.

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[bmidd]

Our Explorer did this at 42k miles, I downshifted to pass a car and had a harsh downshift, every light went off and we lost all power and had to coast to the shoulder. The truck needed a new valve body. Got the truck out of the shop and the battery had to be replaced the next week. I don't think it was a coincidence, we had been getting the messages on the Ford App about certain features going to sleep because of a low battery. The wife works from home and we would go 4-5 days without driving the thing. Hopefully yours is just voltage related. BTW we were also tuned, it didn't affect our warranty service.

 

[airline tech]

I think before the Transmission is condemned bad.
I would do a drive monitor for all - Transmission Related PIDs and also possibly revert back to stock tune.
Has any testing been done other than reading codes?
My thought is - (If a Low Voltage - Bad Battery) generated the issue, the PCM is stuck in between what the programmed strategy (Tune) Stock vs Tuned.
It lost part of its (Programming) based on the 2 Codes you pulled - This is my Theory and would be the direction I would go - before I Replaced/Rebuilt the Transmission.
For me it's a Programming Issue and not a true transmission issue.

 

[TJC]

I would also validate that the fluid level is accurate. Too high or low causes serious issues, and it is easy to get it wrong.

 

[Domino77]

I think before the Transmission is condemned bad.
I would do a drive monitor for all - Transmission Related PIDs and also possibly revert back to stock tune.
Has any testing been done other than reading codes?
My thought is - (If a Low Voltage - Bad Battery) generated the issue, the PCM is stuck in between what the programmed strategy (Tune) Stock vs Tuned.
It lost part of its (Programming) based on the 2 Codes you pulled - This is my Theory and would be the direction I would go - before I Replaced/Rebuilt the Transmission.
For me it's a Programming Issue and not a true transmission issue.

Thanks airline tech, I think you hit the nail on the head. I reinstalled the stock tune, told it to relearn and ran through the relearn calibration drive I read here on another thread. I believe you had it right I think the PCM was "stuck" or "scrambled" up between the tunes. The reset since the "limp mode" maybe looking for a signature from the stock tune that doesn't exist in the performance tune something to that effect and so it just kept malfunctioning. It seems to be shifting really well so far. No slipping or sliding into gear or nose diving. There was one hard 2nd to 3rd shift in my test drive tonight. I will keep the stock tune on it for now and be sure everything is in stable condition before installing the performance tune again. Thanks again! I will report back in due time. No Rapter for me .... YET!

 

[Domino77]

I would also validate that the fluid level is accurate. Too high or low causes serious issues, and it is easy to get it wrong.

I know... I know... as you have said and I do appreciate it. I have the image you posted with the temps and corresponding fluid levels. I have been driving it to work and checking the level every other day once I get there. I park on my level lot and it has been reading between 4 and 5 on the dipstick. I found that the natural daylight with my good sunglasses on helps see the fluid on the stick really well. I still have to get the Bluetooth OBD II tool so I can get some temp readings with an android app. I would imagine 38 miles to work at 70mph would be warm enough.

 

[Stevedbvik1]

I know... I know... as you have said and I do appreciate it. I have the image you posted with the temps and corresponding fluid levels. I have been driving it to work and checking the level every other day once I get there. I park on my level lot and it has been reading between 4 and 5 on the dipstick. I found that the natural daylight with my good sunglasses on helps see the fluid on the stick really well. I still have to get the Bluetooth OBD II tool so I can get some temp readings with an android app. I would imagine 38 miles to work at 70mph would be warm enough.

38 miles at 70 mph will probably only get you into the 190’s this time of year. You really need to force it to get to the 205+ range. Usually sport mode locked in 6th (3500-4000 rpm) at 70 for around 7-10 miles will do it.

 

[Domino77]

38 miles at 70 mph will probably only get you into the 190’s this time of year. You really need to force it to get to the 205+ range. Usually sport mode locked in 6th (3500-4000 rpm) at 70 for around 7-10 miles will do it.

Ok, good info. ok then with that it does read just at 5 or slightly above. So that puts it between 180 and 200 on the diagram TJC posted. I need to get my temps. I have the ODB tool coming. I could be, if anything, maybe 1/2 a quart low? I really do not think I'm overfilled.

I wonder what the dealer will think of the aftermarket dipstick. I am just not wanting to hear all their opinions of what I have done modding it having caused my issues. It's a cop out in my opinion.

Well, the drive to work this morning was not perfect still slipped but a quick rip through the gears down a side road just before I got to the office it went through the gears fine. So it seems intermittent today or it just still is attune to my "aggressive driving". I'm not a speed demon I just get up to speed when I can I like to be quick because it is quick, I'm sure everyone will misinterpret my meaning, but maybe that's my downfall. I just flashed the stock tune so too early to say. maybe the relearn was to spec. Calling the dealer then the manufacturer if I can't get some help, I don't think this should be my full responsibility even though out of warranty Ford knows there are issues. this F-ing sucks.

 

[Domino77]

I think before the Transmission is condemned bad.
I would do a drive monitor for all - Transmission Related PIDs and also possibly revert back to stock tune.
Has any testing been done other than reading codes?
My thought is - (If a Low Voltage - Bad Battery) generated the issue, the PCM is stuck in between what the programmed strategy (Tune) Stock vs Tuned.
It lost part of its (Programming) based on the 2 Codes you pulled - This is my Theory and would be the direction I would go - before I Replaced/Rebuilt the Transmission.
For me it's a Programming Issue and not a true transmission issue.

Ok, spoke too soon seems 50% better maybe? To follow your directions closer I am not sure I fully understand how to do a "drive monitor" is it with a Bluetooth ODBII tool and the app on my phone to watch for PIDs as I drive (logically)? What confuses me on that is I did not know the PIDs would appear like that and not make the check engine light go on? I do not have a check engine light on through all this, only the original PCM fault codes resident in memory.

 

[Stevedbvik1]

Ok, good info. ok then with that it does read just at 5 or slightly above. So that puts it between 180 and 200 on the diagram TJC posted. I need to get my temps. I have the ODB tool coming. I could be, if anything, maybe 1/2 a quart low? I really do not think I'm overfilled.

I wonder what the dealer will think of the aftermarket dipstick. I am just not wanting to hear all their opinions of what I have done modding it having caused my issues. It's a cop out in my opinion.

Well, the drive to work this morning was not perfect still slipped but a quick rip through the gears down a side road just before I got to the office it went through the gears fine. So it seems intermittent today or it just still is attune to my "aggressive driving". I'm not a speed demon I just get up to speed when I can I like to be quick because it is quick, I'm sure everyone will misinterpret my meaning, but maybe that's my downfall. I just flashed the stock tune so too early to say. maybe the relearn was to spec. Calling the dealer then the manufacturer if I can't get some help, I don't think this should be my full responsibility even though out of warranty Ford knows there are issues. this F-ing sucks.

If you’re between 4&5 with the transmission temps in the 190’s then at 205-210 it probably will read between 4&3 which would indicate an overfill situation. Also the Fitzstick should not be an issue with your dealer. When I had my transmission replaced under warranty the dealer swapped the Fitzstick over to the new transmission without any problems.

 

[TJC]

38 miles at 70 mph will probably only get you into the 190’s this time of year. You really need to force it to get to the 205+ range. Usually sport mode locked in 6th (3500-4000 rpm) at 70 for around 7-10 miles will do it.

I just purchased the Livernois tune. While speaking tot he 1st elvel support, the fellow mentioned that he worked in a Ford Dealer Service department for 3 years. I asked hom how they checked the fluid levels in the Transmission.

His reply stunned me.

We let it idle for a few minutes until warm and top it off to between 4 and 5.

I let it go without comment, but it speaks to poor service. We alaready have a suspect transmission at best, and this sloppy service behavior only exacerbates the issues. My first attempt at a proper fill was overfill. The truck drove fine most of the time, until it hit the upper heat range limit of the fluid. I generally never drove far enough to see the problem.

You can check it reliably at first start if temps are between 60F-80F. The fluid will just be showing on the dipstick tip. At 180F-190F, you going to be in the 5-6 box. At 75F, it took my truck ~38 minutes at idle in park to get to 180F,

Beleive it or not, driving it steady will take just as long, lots of stopping and going will heat it up faster. If you sitting in drive, and idling, the torque converter is slipping, and I honestly beleive it is responsible for ~70% of the heat generated in the transmission.

When I drive 40 miles right now, I see transmission temps climb to the 175F-180F, Maybe 183F. I never see 190F. I drive that distance quite regulalrly. That drive has 6 or so stop lights, and varying speeds through a small town, then up to 65mph sustained for 20 miles or so.

 

[TJC]

Here's a pretty good "Owner" video disccussing the 10R80. It consists of a rudimentary, but very good overview, and how to follow the TCM learning procedure. Worth the few minutes watch.

Here's a copy of the chart from his video. It is the same Ford previously mentioned and it helped in smoothing out my transmission after my fluid changes.

Ford Ranger 10 speed automatic gearbox issues and fixes

 

[Lcr3000]

I appreciate the reply LCR. The transmission really had 0 issues in my opinion before my highway incident. From further inquiry with a Ford tech friend is that the extremely low battery condition, which went dead completely a few days later, combined with the sudden surge of power needed when my truck downshifted at highway speeds and the electrical supply for the surge was not there due to extremely weak battery. So, the subsequent and sudden malfunction of the vehicle powertrain (per the code) was the result of the lack of electrical need. I now have a persistence "slip" when shifting at low speeds. Not to mention I happen to do a trans fluid change just before all of this and I have learned that there is a definite need to do the relearn and follow a set procedure to correctly relearn. After the trans fluid change and new battery, I had not done this and have yet to try it. All this combined with the fact that, YES, these transmissions have an inherent defect/faulty parts. My issue is no extended warranty let alone it is modded and wouldn't be covered anyhow. So, I am dead in the water in regard to Ford repairing it "under warranty" I am at 76k miles just over the 75k manufacturer warranty. So, I am looking at a 7K to 10K repair or trade it in on a Raptor Ranger. I wish. Last comment, this batter issue has me very upset, my fault yes, but out of all the warnings and messages and everything these trucks give you never did a message pop up and say "check battery" only a tiny amber battery symbol at the bottom of the small digital screen above the steering column. Seems a very weak point. that highway issue could have stopped my truck dead in the middle of the highway.

So needless to say I am at a loss my truck is limping everyday so I think I need to trade it in but I still love it, I can't part with it. Minus the transmission everything about this truck is great.

Understood. I had changed my transmission fluid earlier this year at around 48k miles. I didn't, however, do a "relearn" on the control module, which could, or would've probably helped kick the bucket down the road. But I knew I was going have to get Ford to cover it before it was too late. (Counting blessings on that one). I got the truck back yesterday and it's shifting perfectly. They overhauled just about the whole transmission (adding the newer version of the clutch drum being the main task) to include replacing the old valve body with a newer revision. I'm just saying all this, so you have extra info if you do ever decide on your own repairs. Interestingly enough, there is a full recall on the 2024-2025 F150 and Ranger to replace the valve body in the transmission, so the vehicle can't accidently slip into gear. Well, good luck in your decisions. We all like our trucks and get attached to them. Oh, and yea, don't think I didn't do a nice walk around on the Ranger Raptor parked nearby. I don't know if my thumbnail shows up here, but I have the 2021 Tremor version and I love it.

 

[Domino77]

Understood. I had changed my transmission fluid earlier this year at around 48k miles. I didn't, however, do a "relearn" on the control module, which could, or would've probably helped kick the bucket down the road. But I knew I was going have to get Ford to cover it before it was too late. (Counting blessings on that one). I got the truck back yesterday and it's shifting perfectly. They overhauled just about the whole transmission (adding the newer version of the clutch drum being the main task) to include replacing the old valve body with a newer revision. I'm just saying all this, so you have extra info if you do ever decide on your own repairs. Interestingly enough, there is a full recall on the 2024-2025 F150 and Ranger to replace the valve body in the transmission, so the vehicle can't accidently slip into gear. Well, good luck in your decisions. We all like our trucks and get attached to them. Oh, and yea, don't think I didn't do a nice walk around on the Ranger Raptor parked nearby. I don't know if my thumbnail shows up here, but I have the 2021 Tremor version and I love it.

What was the cost of those repairs?

 

[Lcr3000]

What was the cost of those repairs?

Well, Zero dollars because I'm at 56k miles. Powertrain warranty is up to 60k. The invoice didn't price out what it would've been otherwise. I hate to think what they'd have charged otherwise. Interesting entry on the second page that I missed. Apparently after showing where they replaced the clutch spline, they had to come back and make a second fix (which I mentioned prior because they verbally told me), the entry is as follows: "Since the A and E clutches are intact, but the engagement is still harsh - Replaced the main control valve body. Post Road test ok." Their post road test and transmission training was about 6 miles. I've driven it for 3 days now, no random harsh shifting for the first time since I bought it.

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