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For those who feel "Maintenance is a Scam!"

RedlandRanger

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That’s a fair point. It’s been a while since I’ve used dealer service for anything because of these tactics. My trusted shop will get my business in handling the more “fun” maintenance like trans fluid and filter change.
The same "ethics" seem to be seeping into other areas as well. There are a few family owned HVAC companies that were well regarded that have sold out to large regional corporations (the original owners retired) - their M.O. is now "you need to replace your system" for just about every problem. And the cost of the replacements is much higher for the quality of system you get. Honesty and integrity are becoming harder and harder to find unfortunately.
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Frenchy

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Maintenance isn’t the scam, what they charge is. $200 for a rear dif fluid change? $75 to replace engine air filter or cabin air filter? The cost of 2 quarts of rear diff fluid is $25 and simply drain and fill. They’d have better luck getting people to agree to their air filter changes if they were charging $30 instead, considering we can get them for about $20 at AZ or OR and some folks might think it’s worth $10 to pay someone else to swap the filters (not me).
One thing you.do miss is the labor for the other person to do the job. Depending on what that job may entail then you will have to pay if someone else has to do it. Also I have not seen many Factory Air Filters cost that low in a while without a discount at the Dealership. Maybe at the Auto Parts Store if you get the basic store Brand and that's about it
 

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One thing you.do miss is the labor for the other person to do the job. Depending on what that job may entail then you will have to pay if someone else has to do it. Also I have not seen many Factory Air Filters cost that low in a while without a discount at the Dealership. Maybe at the Auto Parts Store if you get the basic store Brand and that's about it
Rockauto has the motorcraft air filter for $13 and cabin air filter for $17. $10 for a five minute or less task is taking labor into account, in my opinion. It’s probably more profitable than that as they’re making money selling you the filters too. The only service that somewhat makes sense as to what they charge is the trans fluid and filter and that’s cause the tech may have to go to the ER after burning their hand checking the fluid level thanks to the engineers wonderful thoughtfulness.

Maybe I’m being a little hard on the pricing of the services but after all the stuff you hear about with extra fees and how they try screw the customer, it’s hard being sympathetic towards a dealer. Plus, I’m still salty about the last time I went, they didn’t want to honor their $300 brake pad replacements and rotor resurfacing deal they were advertising when I made an appointment to take care of a recall.
 

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They call em Stealerships for a reason.


And anyone that defends them is delusional and is part of the problem.
 

pbethel

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They call em Stealerships for a reason.


And anyone that defends them is delusional and is part of the problem.
Well, that ends this discussion.
 


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Frenchy

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Rockauto has the motorcraft air filter for $13 and cabin air filter for $17. $10 for a five minute or less task is taking labor into account, in my opinion. It’s probably more profitable than that as they’re making money selling you the filters too. The only service that somewhat makes sense as to what they charge is the trans fluid and filter and that’s cause the tech may have to go to the ER after burning their hand checking the fluid level thanks to the engineers wonderful thoughtfulness.

Maybe I’m being a little hard on the pricing of the services but after all the stuff you hear about with extra fees and how they try screw the customer, it’s hard being sympathetic towards a dealer. Plus, I’m still salty about the last time I went, they didn’t want to honor their $300 brake pad replacements and rotor resurfacing deal they were advertising when I made an appointment to take care of a recall.
So what you are saying that if you take your vehicle into the shop you should not have to pay for any labor and the guy doing the work should simply not get paid and not be able to afford to live?

Remember, even if the labor for 5 minutes is simply $10, that really only pays the Technician/Mechanic 0.1 hours of labor. A Technician that make $30 an hour only make $3 off that $10. The rest goes to the dealer that also pays for the utilities, shop supplies and building rent along with pay for other Involved(aka service writer and service manager).

The same rule applies to any automotive shop that you go to. That is part of why many individuals would prefer to do the work themselves(as long as it is in the ability to do so).

They call em Stealerships for a reason.


And anyone that defends them is delusional and is part of the problem.
For what is said above it does not mean I am defending ALL Dealers. There are a few that do nothing but steal money for no reason and don't pay the Technicians/Mechanics worth a damn as I have worked for a few that did just that.

To make things more fun simply look at the design for the air filter on different vehicles like the early Ford Focus and the Chevy Cobalt and HHR. Just to get the air filter out you have to do so much work to get too it. No way I would do it for a customer for FREE. I would certainly charge labor for it.
 

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The same "ethics" seem to be seeping into other areas as well. There are a few family owned HVAC companies that were well regarded that have sold out to large regional corporations (the original owners retired) - their M.O. is now "you need to replace your system" for just about every problem. And the cost of the replacements is much higher for the quality of system you get. Honesty and integrity are becoming harder and harder to find unfortunately.
This is so true, we had a power line transformer blow and a voltage surge fried the End Bell (speed controller) on our HVAC blower. Local shop wanted $1500 to replace it. I found one in Texas for $400 and replaced it myself in 2 hours, most of the work was done with 5 tools, still working fine after 3 years. I did add a surge protector to the blower just in case.
 
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Frenchy

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The same "ethics" seem to be seeping into other areas as well. There are a few family owned HVAC companies that were well regarded that have sold out to large regional corporations (the original owners retired) - their M.O. is now "you need to replace your system" for just about every problem. And the cost of the replacements is much higher for the quality of system you get. Honesty and integrity are becoming harder and harder to find unfortunately.
As much as I hate to say it this kind of thing is happening in many different industries. From what I noticed it comes down to either the entire company running the place or the individual doing the job that is being paid a commission instead of hourly.

I know that much for working at different places and working both Hourly and Flat Rate.
 

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Maintenance isn’t the scam, what they charge is. $200 for a rear dif fluid change? $75 to replace engine air filter or cabin air filter? The cost of 2 quarts of rear diff fluid is $25 and simply drain and fill. They’d have better luck getting people to agree to their air filter changes if they were charging $30 instead, considering we can get them for about $20 at AZ or OR and some folks might think it’s worth $10 to pay someone else to swap the filters (not me).
Yep esp if you let a ford dealer touch it. :)
 

GreyAreaRanger

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So what you are saying that if you take your vehicle into the shop you should not have to pay for any labor and the guy doing the work should simply not get paid and not be able to afford to live?

Remember, even if the labor for 5 minutes is simply $10, that really only pays the Technician/Mechanic 0.1 hours of labor. A Technician that make $30 an hour only make $3 off that $10. The rest goes to the dealer that also pays for the utilities, shop supplies and building rent along with pay for other Involved(aka service writer and service manager).

The same rule applies to any automotive shop that you go to. That is part of why many individuals would prefer to do the work themselves(as long as it is in the ability to do so).



For what is said above it does not mean I am defending ALL Dealers. There are a few that do nothing but steal money for no reason and don't pay the Technicians/Mechanics worth a damn as I have worked for a few that did just that.

To make things more fun simply look at the design for the air filter on different vehicles like the early Ford Focus and the Chevy Cobalt and HHR. Just to get the air filter out you have to do so much work to get too it. No way I would do it for a customer for FREE. I would certainly charge labor for it.
The tech is paid by job or per hour but either way they are paid. A job that’s requires more labor should charge a higher labor cost to cover paying the tech and shop supplies Per job requirements. Charging an addition $30 to change an air filter while a customer brings their vehicle in for an oil change would be a very easy and quick way for a tech to make that extra $5 for practically no work added as they have to pop the hood open anyways to refill the oil. If they’re paid by the hour, charging $75 is a sure way to dissuade customers from having them do extra work on their car. Heck wiper blades are more complicated to change but they don’t charge you to put them on, but $25 a side isn’t exactly reasonable either.

Even something more involved like a rear differ fluid change doesn’t take longer than 30 minutes but they charge $200 for 1.5 quarts and a couple paper towels. There’s no way the tech is taking anywhere near half of that for their salary. This isn’t a normal mechanic shop either, this is a dealership which has other means of coving their overhead and continues to gouge customers.

I know it’s a business like everything else is but like most folks, I’m not made of money so I have to look at what I’m spending my money on and see if it’s value is worth my hard earn money. I don’t think most of us on this forum would consider dealers for maintenance beyond engine oil and filter or the trans fluid and filter for the same reasons unless they have some special warranty that requires you to bring it in for all maintenance.
 
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Frenchy

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The tech is paid by job or per hour but either way they are paid. A job that’s requires more labor should charge a higher labor cost to cover paying the tech and shop supplies Per job requirements. Charging an addition $30 to change an air filter while a customer brings their vehicle in for an oil change would be a very easy and quick way for a tech to make that extra $5 for practically no work added as they have to pop the hood open anyways to refill the oil. If they’re paid by the hour, charging $75 is a sure way to dissuade customers from having them do extra work on their car. Heck wiper blades are more complicated to change but they don’t charge you to put them on, but $25 a side isn’t exactly reasonable either.

Even something more involved like a rear differ fluid change doesn’t take longer than 30 minutes but they charge $200 for 1.5 quarts and a couple paper towels. There’s no way the tech is taking anywhere near half of that for their salary. This isn’t a normal mechanic shop either, this is a dealership which has other means of coving their overhead and continues to gouge customers.

I know it’s a business like everything else is but like most folks, I’m not made of money so I have to look at what I’m spending my money on and see if it’s value is worth my hard earn money. I don’t think most of us on this forum would consider dealers for maintenance beyond engine oil and filter or the trans fluid and filter for the same reasons unless they have some special warranty that requires you to bring it in for all maintenance.
It's truly going to depend on the rear differential in said vehicle for how long it will take. For example, the Ranger did come with a drain and fill plug, but if not mistaken didn't that get deleted a few years after it was released? Now you have to either find a way to suck the fluid out of the fill plug or remove the cover.

Another example would be a vehicle with rear independent suspension and the fill and drain plug are not easy to access(I have ran into this with a few different vehicles). Until you do the stuff in the shop or do it yourself it's hard to gauge how long a particular job will truly take per vehicle.
 

Cmar

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Nah it's the upselling and BS charges they try on that get me. Many years ago we bought one of the very first Kia Sportage's made. I know that they had a bad rap but ours was actually a pretty reliable car apart from a few electrical gremlins. At a timing belt change done at the dealership (so we could get a couple of warranty issues fixed before it ran out of warranty including a leaky transfer case seal and blown exhaust flange gasket) They added in a "valve adjustment" I pointed out that that particular engine (Mazda FE2) had hydraulic lash adjusters and they sheepishly said oh that's just a generic list - we don't bill for everything on it, good I said, then you can take that off then. - Stealerships indeed. At least they fixed the leaky seal, but made such a hash of the exhaust pipe gasket I ended up pulling it off and re-doing it properly myself.
 

Cmar

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Don't know what it's out of, but you can't argue the lovely holiday cheer!!

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I've seen thick old diff oil, and dirty old, diff oil, but never anything like this.
 

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Complain about costs all you want but its really a pretty simple choice.
Those who can, do. Those who can't have to pay whatever the price is for someone else to do it for them. :like:
 

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Maintenance isn’t the scam, what they charge is. $200 for a rear dif fluid change? $75 to replace engine air filter or cabin air filter? The cost of 2 quarts of rear diff fluid is $25 and simply drain and fill. They’d have better luck getting people to agree to their air filter changes if they were charging $30 instead, considering we can get them for about $20 at AZ or OR and some folks might think it’s worth $10 to pay someone else to swap the filters (not me).
Been a couple years but the last time I was at the Valvoline Quicky Lube with my old Sport Trac for the front diff it cost $69.99. They use a suction machine and don't take the diff cover off, which on those and older Rangers is the only way to do the front because the diff cover isn't coming off with the diff in the vehicle.
My 2020 has drain plugs on both diffs but people have said that Ford left them off starting in 2022.
I'm a decent do-it-yourselfer but I know if take a diff cover off there's a very good chance it'll leak. ?
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